fly_tornado Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 One of my other projects is to build an aircraft engine out of a BMW bike engine. This idea spawned from the german company takeoff which does a lot of these conversions in the EU. This is going to be a pusher setup for my Tornado using an Ivoprop. I have RT engine with 8000miles from a cop bike and RS motor with 24000 miles. The BMW engine is a good choice for a aero conversion, its a well engineered engine compared to most auto conversions, everything in it is extremely well made, the photos don't convey the feeling of quality in all the components. 95HP @ 7250 rpm 100NM @ 5500 rpm 2.5:1 gearbox vibration isolator in the gearbox 35% air cooled and 65% oil cooled engine has 2 oil systems with one dedicated to cooling the engine less than 80KGs ready to fly ECU with 2 ignition systems I have started placing things in there positions working out how to fit it all together... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 23, 2010 Author Share Posted December 23, 2010 To get it flying my to do list includes: Hack up the wiring harness (this is a big job as the BMW wiring harness is massive and links everything together in 1 harness) The wiring harness sits ontop of the engine on the bike but it will end up underneath it in the plane. Build engine mounts, the engine is designed as a stressed member of the bike, so the holes already exist. Build oil cooler mounts and add an additional cooler. Build a fuel system, it requires a high pressure system with a fuel return from the regulator. On the bike the tank is above the engine and the plane will have the tank underneath it. Build an exhaust extension/adapter and muffler and exhaust mounts. Wire it into the existing aircraft electrical system to include a ECU reset function Install a bigger battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aussie carl Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 Nice. Does it have a planetry type gear box reduction built in and will you have to add another reduction drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methusala Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 Looks like a Rotax C-Type gearbox to me, Carl, Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 23, 2010 Author Share Posted December 23, 2010 That's an SPG3 gearbox with a 2.5:1 reduction, I got it from Airtrikes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 I think these engines have been used in the USA before, or maybe earlier models. Another bike engine used was the Honda Goldwing engine, they kept the gearbox, using 2nd gear as a reduction drive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 23, 2010 Author Share Posted December 23, 2010 The older r100s where used prior to the 1100/1150 engines coming on the market, they needed a lot of mechanical work to get them to perform as well as a 1100. I wouldn't use a leadwing engine in a plane they would be much too heavy and a 6 cylinder will be more expensive to service. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methusala Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 G'day Yenn and all, I remember seeing a Nieuport replica powered by a Yamaha Virago engine that had the gearbox in place. Perhaps it was this and not the Goldwing engine that you remember? Just saying...Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 how scary would flying behind a yahama cruiser motor be? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanzahero Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 I'd feel a heck of a lot safer with the Yamaha than the 1300 cc Harley..... 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 the porsche designed one wouldn't be too bad. A while back I saw an ad on from a guy selling an RE drive to suit a harley engine, clicked on his "other items" link and he had a complete engine less case and rods, selling due to breaking a rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 Don. I saw both in old versions of Kitplanes around the same time. Sadly I lent some of my old mags and they havn't all come back, so I can't refer to the dates. The Honda was used I think in a Nieuport as was the BMW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methusala Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 'Day Yenn, My memory suffers from "old goat syndrome" so it's only partly useful heh heh heh! Regards, Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 FT where are you up to with this project, did you ever get it flying ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Yes FT, Where are you on this? I have many years experience two wheel flying with BMW Bikes are they are fantastic. Extreme quality compared to anything on two wheels. If you keep fresh oil and fuel then almost impossible to break. A terrific engine and probably the best engine in the world reliability wise for conversion to aircraft duty. Remember the BMW logo (roundel) is a spinning prop against a blue sky. They started making aero engines first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Teutonic efficiency. This is why so many asian car engines are quite good, it's the German engineers they used to design them. . . I hope that the engine doesn't use the same ecu firmware as VW, or the greenies will be all over you about your emissions. ( No, not the ones on the forum ) A bloke from our field had a Thruster TST with a BMW 600cc engine, R60 ? I don't know much about these engines, my Brother Ray still has a K100 (1,000cc ) ex cop bike, so I am assuming that the R60 is 600. . .? Iit did fly, but the thing was just too heavy really, and could only be flown single seat. On throttle reduction the descent rate was alarming. ( His words, but I saw it fly and I Agree ) It crashed in Scotland about fifteen years ago following undercart damage during a heavy landing and was not rebuilt. I have no idea on the technical specs, ie reduction drive, prop used etc. . . as I said, never owned a Beemer Bike. I'm not familiar with the "Tornado" airframe though,. . . got any pictures ? Hope the project works well anyway cobber, it looks / sounds good so far. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 There are lots flying OS, particularly in Europe...they tend to be the older ones about Check this page out, you will need to use google translate https://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.takeoff-ul.de/&prev=search go to the page titled Drieachser and then progress through the sub pages using the little 1 2 3 4 icons below the picture... makes for interesting reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 ok so life got in the way since I started my build, I had a change of business in 2011 that sucked up all my cash for the last 4 years. There have been a few issues along the way... I picked up 2 tornado out of the states and landed them in mid 2010, there where flying but they needed major refurbishment. When I first got them I noticed the wiring was a bit sub-standard and as I went through that I noticed the paint was peeling on the frames and the frames were rusting. The are very early models, a '92 and a '94 and neither of the frames been rust treated properly since new, subsequent owner had just painted over the rust, the 92 has 5 layers in places. So I stripped the 92 to pieces and taken back to bare metal. This is a long and tedious process because as I go along I find more and more bodged up fixes. The other issues I am working on The biggest issue is the Tornado was a copy of the Earthstar Thundergull JT2. Both of which was designed around the Rotax 503 and the 582. The problem for getting the BMW into the Tornado is the BMW's lack of lower front engine mount to use in a bed style motor mount. There is a small mount on the block used to hold the engine during maintenance but I'm not 100% confident that it won't crack the block in regular use. The BMW is popular in trikes and tractors because they have a vertical engine mounting, which the BMW is perfect for as it has multiple mounts above and below the engine. Building that front engine mount is tricky as the pipes snake around the front of the The next issue is the weight and balance, because the tornado has been designed around the lightweight 2stroke engine the big lump of alloy behind the balance point means it needs some weight in the nose. Later model Tornados have the battery mounted in front of the front wheel which means fabricating a battery box and reworking the wiring harness. The other option is to move the pilot seat forward. I might have to do both. There are some more minor issues, like the wiring harness, with BMW you get 1 wiring harness that covers the entire bike. Its as thick as a 50cent piece in places. I have managed to cut out a lot of stuff but a lot of the switches disable the ECU, sidestand, clutch and gear shifter combos is one example. The engines will need a prop extension... brb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The BMW is not swinging prop but the centre of the Barvarian flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Bugger, I stand corrected but as the facts do not represent the truth as I wish it. I will take the do a Abbott and make my own truth. Besides this looks much cooler and sounds correct. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 woops missed the image Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Yes FT,Where are you on this? I have many years experience two wheel flying with BMW Bikes are they are fantastic. Extreme quality compared to anything on two wheels. If you keep fresh oil and fuel then almost impossible to break. A terrific engine and probably the best engine in the world reliability wise for conversion to aircraft duty. Remember the BMW logo (roundel) is a spinning prop against a blue sky. They started making aero engines first. I've been interested in them but warned off by someone who has seen a number of conversions. Apparently they're OK if you're a mechanical genius and can spend hours tinkering. I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickH Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I read somewhere that as stated above the Logo is indeed the Bavarian flag but the spinning prop myth happened and that as BMW did indeed build acft engines it was a myth they help to propagate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Yes apparently it is a myth- but a good one and well deserved. They are a aircraft engine maker and have a long history building them. As do Mercedes, Volvo, SAAB and even Alfa Romeo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I think the Virago motored Nieuport crashed. early in it's career. Goldwing motors come in 4 and six cylinder . The six would be potentially one of the smoothest aero engines you might use. Flat sixes are much smoother that fours or twins. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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