patrick55 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 [ATTACH]13145.vB[/ATTACH] What are your thought on this ? THE FACTS FROM THE HORSES MOUTH Gentlemen, My name is Darryl Tarr and I am the pilot of the Air Zimbabwe Boeing 707-330B doing the "fly-past". At the time I was a Senior Type Rating Examiner on the B707 fleet for Air Zimbabwe. There were in-fact TWO air shows held at Charles Prince Airport (west of Harare). The first air show was in May 1993 and the second air show was in May 1995. I demonstrated the B707 at both of these air shows, my flying display was identical except for the 1995 air show where I flew a little lower. Here are some details: 1. Three Crew members only on-board (Flight Engineer, First Officer, and myself) 2. Non- Revenue Flight (or non-commercial flight as some prefer) 3. 12,000 KGs of Fuel (2.0 hours endurance) 4. Vref Approach Speed Flaps 40 was 116 Knots (I was flying at 125 Knots) 5. Radio Altimeter 30 feet, allowing for the fact that when we Go-Around and rotate towards +15 degrees the aircraft will get lower (as depicted in the photo, the aircraft is climbing) 6. High Speed Fly Past (which is not shown here), was at the Barbers Pole of 375 KIAS (due to the density altitude at Harare True Air Speed was 400 Kts) For both air shows I was authorized to display the aircraft as we had planned, briefed, and scrutinized. Unfortunately during the air show in 1993 an Air Zimbabwe Boeing 767-200ER on a Commercial Flight (revenue flight), from HRE to JNB did an UNORTHORIZED fly past with passengers on-board. Its a real can of worms but at that time my UNCLE (same surname) was infact the Chief Pilot of the Company and he got into trouble for the method by which disciplinary measures were planned for the Captain of the B767. Unfortunately as we all know the media never get the facts right and published that a certain Captain Tarr was in trouble for an illegal fly past. As it turned out not many people saw the B767 fly past as it was early in the morning, and yet my display was at midday being the highlight of the show. Just to re-emphasize that my fly past was 100% LEGAL and authorized. YES, i did have some words with a SAA Captain afterwards but there was no malicious intent and also no flight safety issues between the Company, DCA, and my crew. YES, Wrex Tarr is my father and unfortunately he is no longer with us. I am currently a Senior Type Rating Examiner for Emirates Airline on the Boeing 777. I have been living in Dubai for just over 10 years having left Air Zimbabwe in 1998. I spent almost 5 years as a Captain on the B707, then a little over 2 years as a Captain on the 767 before joining Emirates. Do I miss the B707, HELL YEAH, lets just say that as far as older generation aircraft are concerned I think it was the "best ever", a fantastic aircraft that I could do things with that no other aircraft comes close to (although the Piper Super Cub was hard to beat but I am refering to Commercial Jetliners that I have flown). Would I do the identical fly-past again: Well with the way that aviation has changed World over, NO. But I have no regrets, I had excess energy management and the display did go according plan. Actually growing up in Zimbabwe from an aviation perspective was fantastic. I started flying at a very young age and was a B737 Captain at the age of 24, and a B707 Captain at 26. Today I still fly to JNB several times a year when operating the B777-300ER with Emirates and do love to do this flight as its like returning to your back garden. Anyway if there is any other information you guys want just email me: [email protected] I do have the full 1993 display on video. Regards, Capt Darryl Tarr Type Rating Examiner B777 Emirates Airline 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 boys and their toys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Wrex Tarr, now that brings forth a chuckle or three! Would have loved to have seen the show and it makes for an awesome photo - as he says, different place and different times, the world has become arguably more risk averse and indubitably more boring since then. I recall similar discussions following Scully Levine's original 747 display (very low)over Virginia (a 900m long GA airfield), in fact I was sitting with a few SAA pilots at the time - there was a fairly even split between those who were green with envy and those who condemned the whole exercise, despite the fact that it was also a non revenue flight and had been run over and over in the simulator beforehand. There is something pretty special about seeing the big iron put through its paces at an airshow:thumb_up: PS I'd love to see the video! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I have always thought that someone should get an old 737 and set up an airshow display team with it... I reckon the impact would be 100 times that of a Pitts or similar and think of the advertising space on the airframe! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunlopdangler Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 At the last Avalon airshow, the kiwi airforce did just that and it was awesome to watch, no doubt they will be doing something similar this time around...(that is if gillard doesn't stuff up across Tasman relations in the meantime!!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Relax Patrick - we understand, we're Australians. With that level of control, I only hoped you're the pilot if I'm ever on one which has to ditch or attempt a landing in rough terrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest basscheffers Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Dear Sir, I am representing the Estate of Mr Tarr and since there are no known relatives, I need your help getting his Boieng 707, worth 15,000,000.000 (FIFTEEN MILLION) US DOLLARS out of the country. All I ask for is that you claim the aircraft and pay the fuel to fly it out of the country. Upon delivery to the client (Mr. Travolta of Florida USA) you will recieve your 50 precent of the money. I await your reply. Sincerly yours, Mr. A. Crook Solicitor, Dowe, Cheathem and Howe Nigerian office Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Ah No! Well maybe he does photoshop jobs cheap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanzahero Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Yeah... faker than a Oscar losers congratulations... IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick55 Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 It is actually as real as can be, I was at the airshow in 95 when he did it, albeit as a youngster. http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=40464 There were a lot of rumors circulating due to the unauthorized flyby in the '93 airshow. The above link gives a little more information. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I'll second that, this has been chewed over on the elderly plum several times and consesus by those in the know is that there is no fakery involved. Probably the most dramatic photo but by no means unique...., here are a few I found after a quick survey. No. 4 owes a little to photoshop, the others have been corroborated by eyewitnesses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick55 Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 Some great pics, Spin, thanks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 It is a great photo however it was obtained... It's probably just my geriatric neurons bouncing at the thought but don't I recall some Yank doing a slow roll in a 707? kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick55 Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 Here it is ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Tex Johnson in the prototype according to legend. Here's a photo allegedly taken from inside.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I remember that footage of the 707, I watched it somewhere.I remember Boeing was very angry with him.He told him from memory - If done correctly, its low stress, and it sells aeroplanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I remember that footage of the 707, I watched it somewhere.I remember Boeing was very angry with him.He told him from memory - If done correctly, its low stress, and it sells aeroplanes. There's no doubt about that flight - it's in the history books, but the Zimbabwe story has me gun shy now. Underneath the aircraft is a very exact and very black shadow - the sort of thing I would do to provide contrast and a sense of relationship. I still think I was conned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I don't understand why anyone thinks the SA 707 is fake. If you've flown an aircraft a foot or two above the ground, you'll know that there is plenty of control available. Things do change a bit in ground effect, but the aircraft certainly doesn't want to suddenly drop onto the ground. In fact just the opposite, as you have a compressed cushion of air below the wings keeping it away from the ground. In fact you have to work at it to keep it there, as the aircraft just wants to go up, not down. Chuck Yeager in the book 'The right stuff" talks about the time he tried to force an F-86 Sabre onto a salt lake at Edwards (gear up). He states that at speed, in a level attitude, the aircraft just didn't want to do it. A low, or high speed pass, at low altitude in a 707, properly planned and excuted should be no problem at all..............................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Chuck Yeager and Bob Hoover used to chase each other along the sand tracks in the desert brush in Mustangs, leaving prop marks in the sand too. I don't think there's a question about the theory given a high degree of pilot skill and no windshear. My suspicion centres around what looks like an airbrushed shadow, where the sun would have to be directly above the aircraft, not to the north, east or west of it, shining at high intensity to create such density, and producing an unusual shape which sharply outlines both wings, where correct perspective should show a much more oblique and less recognisable pattern. I'd be interested in hearing from any other artists or renderers out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Student Pilot Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I know they have been exported all round the world but those look like Eucalyptus in the back ground. Why do people do such things if it is a fake? The long and involved story to me seems to be trying to take scrutiny away from the photo. Surely research could give this the nod or otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Plenty of eucalypts where that one was taken. For that matter, have you been to California, you'd swear they were natives there. If you read the link provided above you'll see that the "long and involved story" was actually a response to questions raised in the original discussion thread, by the pilot concerned and mostly on account of the fact that the story got a little bent in the retelling ie. that he had landed in the poo for an unauthorised fly by with passengers. Frankly given that patrick55 says he witnessed one of these flights I would hope that there will be apologies for essentially calling him a liar when "a bit of research" reveals the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Can't see a damn thing wrong with the shadow, in fact the pilot did say it was done at Midday, so one would expect it would be directly below the aircraft. Eucalypts (gum trees) were taken to California during the gold rush days, because they grew quickly. The mines needed timber to continually shore up the mine shafts.................................................................Maj.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 RAF used to fly their Jaguars at very low levels in ground effect over the deserts of Nth Africa. Apparently they trim Nose Up. Hold the stick pressure against the artificials feel units. Being hydraulic the jet has springs (feel units) to simulate loads. Anyway if anything untowards was about to happen, they release forward pressure on the stick and climb.I was told this story by a ex-Jaguar Pilot then flying Tonkers at RAF Lossimouth in Scotland. It sounds feasable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Can't see a damn thing wrong with the shadow, in fact the pilot did say it was done at Midday, so one would expect it would be directly below the aircraft......Maj.. ..............at 17 degrees 45 minutes South Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I don't know about the veracity of the claims although I agree if a member here witnessed it then that should be enough. I do recall, however, since people are now speaking about flying in ground effect, that I had to use a lot of forward stick to hold a Blanik just off the ground at speed and had a nose-down angle of about 10 degrees while doing this. Perhaps the forward swept wings added to the unusual attitude in this situation but the memory has stuck with me. kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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