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Hadyn Bell

Norfolk Island Savannah S

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Haydn,

 

Fuselage looks to be coming along well. You seem to be making good progress.

 

Back to my rudder hinge story. Tried to take some pics through the hinge holes but lack of depth of focus prevented me from coming up with anything meaningful. Suffice to say the hole in the bottom hinge is almost a full hole diameter too close to the rudder. As Mark says, I dont know how this could be possible, unless the horn itself is faulty. To help me check this, could you measure the distance marked "x" in one of the pics attached. It's hole centres to hole centre.

 

Hope I am not being too much trouble.

 

Bob

 

1207599424_IMGP3280(Medium).JPG.525fe4ee11ec770a4b0959e97b414867.JPG

 

1425934790_IMGP3280(Medium).JPG.5436643334745937c311e5ead03fca95.JPG

 

1846387435_IMGP3282(Medium).JPG.846f53337e5a1d06099a5aa469820304.JPG

 

 

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Bob Is your Sav a S or a XL?

 

I am going up tomorrow to seal the last 2 tanks I will draw a line on my rudder hinge to see if the bottom hole in the rudder horn is different. It maybe different as the bottom plate on the fuselage maybe different...it shouldn't be but I will check mine and see

 

 

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Bob Is your Sav a S or a XL?

I am going up tomorrow to seal the last 2 tanks I will draw a line on my rudder hinge to see if the bottom hole in the rudder horn is different. It maybe different as the bottom plate on the fuselage maybe different...it shouldn't be but I will check mine and see

Looks like an XL with no "nose skins" on the under side like the S has.

 

 

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Mark,

 

Mine is an XL. Realize Haydn's is an S, but didn't think the rudders were different. Don't go to too much trouble to get a measurement Mark, it may be a bit awkward in the assembled position. thats the reason I was hoping to catch Haydn before he assembled his.I will also check lower hinge part nos. to be sure we are comparing apples with apples.

 

Bob

 

 

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Mark,Mine is an XL. Realize Haydn's is an S, but didn't think the rudders were different. Don't go to too much trouble to get a measurement Mark, it may be a bit awkward in the assembled position. thats the reason I was hoping to catch Haydn before he assembled his.I will also check lower hinge part nos. to be sure we are comparing apples with apples.

 

Bob

Hi Bob,

 

Sorry I haven't got back to you yet, completely forgot. I am off to the build shed again tonight so will pull the rudder out so its in my face and get the info off to you tomorrow.

 

Cheers

 

Hadyn

 

 

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I finished an XL rudder on Thursday arvo, what exactly do you want me to measure? I sould be going back over in the next few days to start the rear fuselage.

 

 

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G'Day ra,

 

Refer back to my post on 21 July on this thread. The pic should explain all

 

Thanks,

 

Bob

 

 

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G'Day ra,Refer back to my post on 21 July on this thread. The pic should explain all

 

Thanks,

 

Bob

?

 

21 July is still four days away (back to the future?)

 

 

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Smarter than me Hank, I saw Bob's member since date and thought he was out by one day, until I realised his posts were all on the same date.

 

 

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G'Day ra,Refer back to my post on 21 July on this thread. The pic should explain all

 

Thanks,

 

Bob

Got it Bob, centre of bottom hole to centre of closest row of rivets.

 

 

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Haydn,Fuselage looks to be coming along well. You seem to be making good progress.

 

Back to my rudder hinge story. Tried to take some pics through the hinge holes but lack of depth of focus prevented me from coming up with anything meaningful. Suffice to say the hole in the bottom hinge is almost a full hole diameter too close to the rudder. As Mark says, I dont know how this could be possible, unless the horn itself is faulty. To help me check this, could you measure the distance marked "x" in one of the pics attached. It's hole centres to hole centre.

 

Hope I am not being too much trouble.

 

Bob

 

[ATTACH]18251[/ATTACH][ATTACH]18250[/ATTACH]

Hi Bob,

 

I had a look at our rudder last night, unfortunately I cant help with the info as we have skinned off the bottom of the rudder covering the rivets in mention.

 

Hadyn

 

 

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Hi All,

 

Sorry about my typo in that earlier post. Try 12 July instead of 21 July. One has to be so careful on this forum doesn't one?

 

Haydn, thanks for your efforts in checking. The S rudder must be quite different to the XL if you skin over the top(bottom)of the horn.

 

ra, yep,thats what I am after.

 

Bob

 

 

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Bob

 

The measurement is 23mm on this one. There is no way you could get a bad plate because the jig holes in the middle of the rivet hole clusters locate the pivot hole in relation to the rivet holes.

 

Cheers Steve...

 

 

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Steve as I don't have the rudder off the plane if you look from the top of the rudder down through the pivot holes in the brackets of the rudder does the bottom hole in the rudder control horn line up with the other 2?....I think this is what Bob was getting at that all 3 don't line up the top 2 do but the bottom doesnt

 

 

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Bob wanted to check that his lower hinge bracket wasn't faulty causing the problem I thought. I won't be back over there for a while, I will have to remember to get it out and have a look when I get back to it.

 

 

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Hi All,Sorry about my typo in that earlier post. Try 12 July instead of 21 July. One has to be so careful on this forum doesn't one?

 

Haydn, thanks for your efforts in checking. The S rudder must be quite different to the XL if you skin over the top(bottom)of the horn.

 

ra, yep,thats what I am after.

 

Bob

Hi Bob,

 

Hope the info supplied by others helps get your problems sorted.

 

Cheers

 

Hadyn

 

 

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Hi All,

 

Thanks Steve, thats the measurement I wanted to compare.Mine measures the same so I am quite puzzled as to why the three hinges dont line up. The top two measure the same distance as each other from the longeron so its not either of them at fault.Its a while since I made the rudder, but as I recall it all fitted together very nicely. Methinks I may have to make a new control horn to solve the issue.

 

I seem to remember somone on a thread somewhere this in site talking about excessive rudder hinge wear at fairly low hours.Seems to me that could be one outcome if it was assembled under pressure with the hinges out of alignment. Must see if I can find that post.

 

Thanks for your interest too Mark.

 

Bob

 

 

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I seem to remember somone on a thread somewhere this in site talking about excessive rudder hinge wear at fairly low hours.Seems to me that could be one outcome if it was assembled under pressure with the hinges out of alignment. Must see if I can find that post.

 

Thanks for your interest too Mark.

 

Bob

It's in this thread, bob. I hope this helps: http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/rudder-hinge-wear.39041/#post-217151

 

 

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Hi All,

 

An overdue couple of pics of the fuselage build. All going well. The small problems we are seeing along the way seem to be across the board with most other builds, so thanks to all the builders for the reassurance and sharing the love!!. The spare black goop turns up today (thanks Mark) so we are back into it full stem ahead. The couple of weeks off has given me time to re organize the shed and have a little tidy up but mostly spend some time having another read through the manual and look at photo's.

 

199306758_SavFuzBuild004.jpg.c6858f3b03b3c8d880d358da3ca24b2f.jpg

 

1102953742_SavFuzBuild002.jpg.39a0a6b056bec3c6da77e99bc430ae92.jpg

 

 

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Hi Haydn

 

You are up to doing the cabin frame this is extremely important my manual said +/- 5mm for the diagonal dimensions you need to get these to +/- .5mm it is super critical. I spent 2 nights just getting it right before I drilled the holes. Also you need to have the motor mount fitted first BEFORE you drill the front cabin frame support holes. The cabin frame support holes are determined by the motor mount top rear bracket holes when you drill the holes through the firewall. My manual basically said it the other way around unless they have changed it. Just sit back and look at it all first and you will see what I mean

 

IMG_1014_1.jpg.df80d095d0ea3fb3bcb0673da4e20c47.jpg

 

IMG_1009_1.jpg.73fc2cc475675c7dcbed15b10e2c1d40.jpg

 

IMG_1004_1.jpg.87501131e2cf3b2af8998ec8d31c89e6.jpg

 

IMG_1006_1.jpg.f8105473b70cdc640c26c028249737b4.jpg

 

IMG_1013_1.jpg.a507c8879bae39f6fe53c474fdeeee95.jpg

 

IMG_1012_1.jpg.746ee39e47084fa699fb4fd5b27765ea.jpg

 

IMG_1011_1.jpg.f4ead144f0334f8abc80c41507745b6a.jpg

 

IMG_1008_1.jpg.90ba34b03023c552be99fd7eeae6764f.jpg

 

IMG_1007_1.jpg.c53a5d839f02e9487c37930e37bfa213.jpg

 

IMG_1005_1.jpg.4788415d9b27776e0fbebb2a7c9c4342.jpg

 

 

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A rewarding weekend of work with the undercarriage plates presented and bolted into place with surprisingly little difficulty, didn't have to "prodge" the holes too much. As these items do fit under a little tension it is understandable that they are fitted before setting the cabin frame position.

 

 

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Hey mate, I've discovered what I think is a week spot in the design, well I never discovered it, there's been a few break before me- but when the poly stop bush on the nose leg compresses to the stop point( can happen on rough strips taxiing or lowering the nose too early in landing) then the repeated force really taxes the L shape reinforcing bracket and they crack, sometimes through only one or two gussets or all three- the design takes the stop force and protects the firewall from more substantial damage but in a STOL aircraft this is IMHO a bit light on , but not uncommon to light sport aircraft in every attempt to keep weight down. I have replacement to fit but in cracking it loads the main plate and can cause it to bend and then bind through its travel. I ve asked Tom to discuss with factory an improved triangulated gusset that distributes the load better while still protecting the firewall.

 

Glad to hear the builds progressing well.

 

Hop

 

 

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Hey mate, I've discovered what I think is a week spot in the design, well I never discovered it, there's been a few break before me- but when the poly stop bush on the nose leg compresses to the stop point( can happen on rough strips taxiing or lowering the nose too early in landing) then the repeated force really taxes the L shape reinforcing bracket and they crack, sometimes through only one or two gussets or all three- the design takes the stop force and protects the firewall from more substantial damage but in a STOL aircraft this is IMHO a bit light on , but not uncommon to light sport aircraft in every attempt to keep weight down. I have replacement to fit but in cracking it loads the main plate and can cause it to bend and then bind through its travel. I ve asked Tom to discuss with factory an improved triangulated gusset that distributes the load better while still protecting the firewall.Glad to hear the builds progressing well.

 

Hop

I suppose, BP246-9er, this may be too hard to photograph? However, if you do have pictures of the cracking issue, could you post them here?

 

 

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Hey mate, I've discovered what I think is a week spot in the design, well I never discovered it, there's been a few break before me- but when the poly stop bush on the nose leg compresses to the stop point( can happen on rough strips taxiing or lowering the nose too early in landing) then the repeated force really taxes the L shape reinforcing bracket and they crack, sometimes through only one or two gussets or all three- the design takes the stop force and protects the firewall from more substantial damage but in a STOL aircraft this is IMHO a bit light on , but not uncommon to light sport aircraft in every attempt to keep weight down. I have replacement to fit but in cracking it loads the main plate and can cause it to bend and then bind through its travel. I ve asked Tom to discuss with factory an improved triangulated gusset that distributes the load better while still protecting the firewall.Glad to hear the builds progressing well.

 

Hop

Thanks for the info. I think I understand what pieces you are talking about and now would be a good time for us to address this since we are working on this area at the moment. I would guess this is an engine out for you to replace the damaged parts? Pictures would be appreciated. Anyway as the Norfolk Island Government only allow use to use the sealed runways and NO private strips, we shouldn't have any rough landings on the nose wheel!!!

 

"S" is for smooth, the same as the pilots!

 

 

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To arrest the thread drift, have a look at this, JG had the same problem

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/broken-sf281-sf282.10736/

 

I think it happens when the bungees return the leg to it's uncompressed position when the tubes welded onto the leg slam into the bracket, talk to the guru, but I think a thicker plate on the top of the leg needs to be machined with a recess for the top of the leg to give more clearence at the bracket, if this is occuring.

 

 

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