flying dog Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Sorry, but sketchy details. I am at work and heard on the radio something about a commercial plane doing an emergency landing at..... (south west NSW) because they were low on fuel. I think someone's working days are numbered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAgNeToDrOp Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 From what I heard a Virgin 737 from Brisbane to Adelaide had to divert due to fog. Landed at Mildura without incident. Hardly an emergency. Although they were low on fuel when they landed. Awkward if they had to divert from there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying dog Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 Yeah, but it would - to me - raise questions: BNE - Adelaide. Mildura is EN-ROUTE! If they were low of fuel there....... Ok, maybe they had to turn back. All the same: Aren't comercial flights supposed to have enough fuel for viable diversion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 May have hung around Adelaide waiting then found Mount Gambier fogged in. But it does show the huge safety benefit of leaving the big WW2 aerodromes alone and reserved for just such an emergency. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greybeard Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 maybe read up a bit more on what detail is available. You never know, they may have already diverted once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAgNeToDrOp Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 No doubt there will be questions, airlines putting minimum fuel to save money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 They have to meet the requirements like anyone else. Sometimes en route the terminal forecast will change and you may not then meet the requirements, so you divert. Big deal. In a jet once you are cruising you can range to quite a distance . if you make a few approaches you eat up the fuel and you have to climb to divert and that uses a lot of fuel too.. That's why they are trained as they are. You have to cover single engine, pressurisation loss all kinds of eventualities and extra fuel is lees passengers carried. so there is pressure to not carry more than needed . What if you had to divert from Mildura? Will the sky fall in? You call them "What-ifs" Still like carrying an alternate that only has one runway has to be thought about with a larger aircraft.. Why? How about you tell me? Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying dog Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 I'm not having a go at the pilots. I also understand the mechanics of running the busiess and fuel vs pax. But "today" with the tech' we have. They are getting close and the weather is not good. It wouldn't be that they have descended from their FL to "suddenly" find the fog. They divert. As said: No big deal. But by then, there should be systems in place to get them to a suitable airport without any fiasco. Yes, descending and climbing out does use the juice. But as it was a comercial airport, wouldn't the people on the ground advise the plane that minimums are not being met and advise them to go to an alternate? Hey, I'm just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Bravo the Pilots! As a very regular flyer I am glad and gives me confidence that they have the training to have such a good outcome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I'm not having a go at the pilots.I also understand the mechanics of running the busiess and fuel vs pax. But "today" with the tech' we have. They are getting close and the weather is not good. It wouldn't be that they have descended from their FL to "suddenly" find the fog. They divert. As said: No big deal. But by then, there should be systems in place to get them to a suitable airport without any fiasco. Yes, descending and climbing out does use the juice. But as it was a comercial airport, wouldn't the people on the ground advise the plane that minimums are not being met and advise them to go to an alternate? Hey, I'm just asking. I think the one that had low fuel circled over Mildura (in Victoria) for quite a long while using up fuel before landing on a strip much shorter than the major airports provide. He would have done this to get his landing weight down. Forecasting fog duration in the Melbourne Basin is very difficult, indeed any weather forecasting in Melbourne is a challenge, so he most likely departed Adelaide with a suitable TAF for Melbourne and his alternate but things changed on the way. But it would be good to hear the facts so we all learn because it is easy to get caught. And yes, it does demonstrate the importance of the old wartime strips and there aren't many of them left offering such facilities. Mangalore used to be the regular alternate for Melbourne when the Divide was clagged in but, while it handled Dc3's I'm not so sure about Airbuses and the like. Some of the strips at Tocumwal have been closed and others shortened so its not such a good choice now, either. What an opportunity to write to your local member to remind them how important local airfields are! Kaz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Depends on the aerodrome and how it is Manned ( or should I say personned). Controlled aerodromes in Australia can be declared closed so you can't even make an approach ( unless things have changed). A friend of mine had this happen at Tullamarine and this was sprung on him out of the blue coming from Launceston in a DC-9. His reply was do you want me to land on the Hume Highway and demanded an approach.. Fogs can close in quickly even when not forecast. One could argue that trained local observers with wet and dry bulb temps and accurate windspeed and airmass data could help but it has always happened. Exotic autoland and ground guidance would be a help but we don't get fogs that often. It has the potential to be heartrate changing. Mangalore has handled B727's and Electra's etc Some of these aerodromes do not have the pavement strengths to handle the tyre pressures. as well as length and width issues.Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying dog Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 I think the one that had low fuel circled over Mildura (in Victoria) for quite a long while using up fuel before landing on a strip much shorter than the major airports provide. He would have done this to get his landing weight down.Forecasting fog duration in the Melbourne Basin is very difficult, indeed any weather forecasting in Melbourne is a challenge, so he most likely departed Adelaide with a suitable TAF for Melbourne and his alternate but things changed on the way. Kaz Ummmm.... From what I heard a Virgin 737 from Brisbane to Adelaide had to divert due to fog. Landed at Mildura without incident. Hardly an emergency. Although they were low on fuel when they landed. Awkward if they had to divert from there... Brisbane, Melbourne..... Which? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 But it does show the huge safety benefit of leaving the big WW2 aerodromes alone and reserved for just such an emergency. And yes, it does demonstrate the importance of the old wartime strips and there aren't many of them left offering such facilities. Errr I just had a look on Google maps and it looks like a modern airport to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/passengers-safe-after-virgin-plane-makes-emergency-landing-at-mildura/story-fni0b4w0-1226665511383 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Emergency and "rattled" passengers are a bit over the top. Typical BS Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Emergency and "rattled" passengers are a bit over the top. Typical BS Nev Yes, that's just ridiculous; if they'd done a few landings with you in the three holer, they'd friggin know what "rattled" meant! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I suspect that when told to "adopt the kiss your ass goodbye position" most people might have become a tad more concerned than they otherwise might have been.....of course with the leg room available in our RPT aircraft today the closest you can come to KYAG is to headbutt the tray table release catch which is usually good for a bruise right smackbang in the middle of your forehead! In fact I hope Im never in a ditching in an RPT, apparently there is a life vest under my seat, but unless I stand and deepdive headfirst the chances of getting there is about equivalent to wining the lottery. My aim if ever in that position is to try and steal the one in the seat across the aisle. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru Phil Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Virgin trying to find alternate transport for passengers infers that the runway was not long enough for a loaded takeoff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Main strip is around 1800m's 737's operate into strip lengths shorter than that, Ballina NSW is same length, Port Macquarie is 1650ishmand in any event you wouldn't need a full fuel load to get from there to ADL.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru Phil Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Main strip is around 1800m's 737's operate into strip lengths shorter than that, Ballina NSW is same length, Port Macquarie is 1650ishmand in any event you wouldn't need a full fuel load to get from there to ADL.... So, just dump the passengers and continue elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignition Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 When did Mildura move to NSW, last I knew, it was still in Victoria... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahlocks Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 When did Mildura move to NSW, last I knew, it was still in Victoria... Didn't you get the memo..?! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Normoyle Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Ok, so I have read just a few posts, and obviously some people have no idea what they and the media are on about. This morning the wether at Adelaide was light winds from the north and PROB 30 of fog was forecast when all these aircraft left BRISBANE PERTH SYDNEY MELBOURNE HONG KONG AND SINGAPORE, all these aircraft diverted to other airports that they had planned as their alternates as a normal practise, NORMAL SAFE PRACTISE, there was no unsafe airline activities at all, actually the opposite, they all carried their alternate fuel ( even from Hong Kong ), the FOG developed slowly from the northwest and the excellent air traffic controllers ( That's me ) advised everyone upline as to the developing conditions, during the 5 hours of poor weather only two aircraft made published missed approaches, a REX SAAB and a Virgin B737, everyone else either diverted to their PLANNED alternate or made a successful landing at Adelaide. Where is the congratulations for the out stations like Mildura who wouldn't have expected this additional traffic, or Port Lincoln which reached capacity by 7:30 am and advised operators not to send anymore aircraft, or the pilots themselves for making the right decision to divert when the conditions were close to the minima instead of trying an approach when they knew they wouldn't get in. How about the approach controllers and Melbourne enroute controllers holding multiple aircraft at DRINA and other places trying to keep it all orderly. Then there is the ground crews for the airport at Adelaide that basically got closed to single aircraft operations at one time, severely restricting movements all in the name of SAFETY. Then there is the airline ground staff who had to move lots of aircraft after the situation had eased. And then there is me again, with my other colleagues moving all the traffic as quick as we could once the weather had cleared, again all as SAFE as possible. If you want to have a gripe at someone, have a go at the ridiculous media reports and then the further postulation and Bollock Dust that goes on with it.. Congrats to those above who have also seen through the hype and constant reporting of catastrophic "NEAR DEATH" events which are actually all part of normal SAFE practises. Maybe they ( the media and other scare mongers ) should have a look at what goes on in some other parts of the world where safety is just a nice thing to have and rules are sometimes followed. And here ends the RANT. If I have inadvertently offended anyone, that was unintentional, I actually meant to offend most who eagerly joined the media hype and disaster bandwagon. 2 1 3 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Yes congratulations for all that Patrick, it would have been a massive, unexpected effort. However it appears I have to cancel my earlier link which talked about routine etc etc, IF the Channel 9 Melbourne News has been correct tonight filming the aircraft landing in foig after two go rounds and a 1920's style situation where a Qantas Captain on the ground was trying to talk him down. So rolling the emergency equipment was very much warranted, and the actions of the crew and the Qantas guy heroic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Ummmm.... From what I heard a Virgin 737 from Brisbane to Adelaide had to divert due to fog. Landed at Mildura without incident. Hardly an emergency. Although they were low on fuel when they landed. Awkward if they had to divert from there... Brisbane, Melbourne..... Which? Sorry... My bad! I was in court and should have been focussing on other things. But I think there were two aircraft that took YMIA as their alternate? It's a modern airport with RPT services now, but it was developed as a military field during WWII and the land required made available for training RAAF crews then. I generally stop there when going to Broken Hill but might use Wentworth now their landing fees have jumped so much. Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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