Guest ozzie Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Also the salty environment it had been operating in for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Oz, not sure if a salty envioriment would have too much effect on what is mainly a wooded structure, with a bit of Chomoly thrown in, and SS bracing wires to hold it all at attention. Your average alum aircraft may have more drama................Maj.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 They didn't use exotic bolt materials. Salt is a bad environment ozzie. I hope we find the cause (as I said) Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I'm pretty sure that moth care maintained their tiger moths. Moth care are probably the best experts in Australia in rebuilding tiger moths and maintaining them. We really need that go pro camera found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Steel airframe, wooden wings. Lot of metal in a Tiger. Heaps of them at Luskintyre. Dazza, they found the camera attached to the wreckage they dragged up this arvo. They did not say if the housing survived the dunking, they can't go very deep. Police spokesperson sounded confident tho. Lets see how i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbleboy Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Steel airframe, wooden wings. Lot of metal in a Tiger. Heaps of them at Luskintyre.Dazza, they found the camera attached to the wreckage they dragged up this arvo. They did not say if the housing survived the dunking, they can't go very deep. Police spokesperson sounded confident tho. Lets see how i Ozzie...I made a trip to Luskintyre last weekend. Tom who rebuilds the wings for the Moths and Stampe aircraft is my Spruce supplier. A bit off subject but got to look at his workshop. He does brilliant work building those wings. Was very inspiring! Scotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I live nearby and am there a fair bit. Great group of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Fortunately those SD cards in the go pros are pretty sturdy, and one the info is recorded to them, it would quit easily survive a good dunking even if the camera itself does not. Forensic investigators are pretty good at retrieving data from submerged and destroyed cameras/computers/hard drives and CVR's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Not to make light of the topic, but after the previous post the summary box for this thread on my iPad reads "Tiger moth crashes into ocean of...Ultralights". It gave me quite a scare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windshear Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 For all those who don't know, I work at Tiger Moth Joy Rides handling the phones, washing the aircraft and mowing the apron (with a push mower, don't laugh). I was not at work when the accident happened (I've been at RAAF Amberley the past 10 days). Please try not to make this thread go super public but if anyone has burning desires then feel free ask. I'll address the GoPro SD card topic as I see it. We don't use the waterproof housings for our cameras. It's certain that the camera's raw housing and subsequently the SD card were exposed to salt water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Sorry about your loss Windshear. We try to analyse things to prevent the same thing happening again, and so far these discussions have never been high profile, probably because they tend to be about the facts as best we can get them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windshear Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Cheers. Jim was just about the nicest guy you could ever meet. He had a fantastic personality, loved what he did, would always stop what he'd be in the middle of just to help me out with anything. He was just a terrific guy and had flying skills to match. And that's no sympathy story simply because he's gone, I legitimately can't think of one bad action to put to his name. First in to work, always the last out. I'm going to miss him. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Nice compliments you have put out there. It's so sad. I am sure you WILL miss him. I've lost quite a few friends and it takes a bit out of you. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2013/aair/ao-2013-226.aspx Go pro footage showed in flight break up of left wing one minute after aero began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2013/aair/ao-2013-226.aspxGo pro footage showed in flight break up of left wing one minute after aero began. Thank you Steve for posting. Go pro cameras and the like are helping us find out a lot quicker the causes of unfortunate accidents like this one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windshear Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Some more food for thought. GoPro #1; Typically set to take a high resolution photograph every 2 seconds from engine startup to shutdown. Mounted on the wing facing towards the aircraft. GoPro #2; Typically set to record a 720p video from engine startup to shutdown. Mounted behind the windshield facing towards the two occupants and the rear of the aircraft. GoPro #2's Field of View 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 From memory, witness reports of an earlier Tiger accident reported wing failure but the ATSB report was vague as to the cause. Another one some years prior to that led to more stringent inspections and rework of wings. We now know what happened but we don't know the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 The rework was in the fabric (drain holes at the rear) was it not?. Some of them had ROT in the ribs Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 From memory, witness reports of an earlier Tiger accident reported wing failure but the ATSB report was vague as to the cause. Another one some years prior to that led to more stringent inspections and rework of wings.We now know what happened but we don't know the cause. I agree David, I should have worded my post better. Camera's and videos show us what has happened but it doesn't show us what has caused it to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windshear Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 TSG was a very well looked after aircraft. The only problem I can recall (if you could call it that) was that all the pilots I had talked to reported the aircraft had a tendency to naturally bank to the left and you (the pilot) would have to be correcting the aircraft throughout the duration of the flight. This is something apparently not present on our other tiger moth (VH-ASB). EDIT: Would that be worthy of contacting the ATSB over? I still haven't received a knock on my door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Me too - I should've stated that the ATSB did not accept the witness statements of wing failure. Also, no evidence was found to support the reported observations of the left or the right wings folding up or a part of the aircraft separating in flight. at http://atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2002/aair/aair200200377.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Generally report anything if you are in doubt. From memory rigging these planes was a real skill. Plenty would have been a bit out and sometimes it would show up as a reduced cruise speed, but it could easily be a wing low that becomes more evident with speed variations. It would be remarkable if there wasn't any. A tendency to stall one wing first consistently might be an indication, but I have only experienced that on an Auster, never a DH 82/ nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pookemon Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 IIRC correctly there was a Tiger moth break up near Coffs a few years ago. I think it was put down to the ageing glue (the wing that didn't break up had been rebuilt due to a minor altercation with a runway light - so it had modern glues while the other didn't). Edit: Not Coffs - Williamstown. http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2002/aair/aair200200377.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windshear Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Don't quote me on this, this event occurred before my time. Sometime in the past 15 or so years the same aircraft stalled on landing and both wings were replaced and the fuse fully restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 IIRC correctly there was a Tiger moth break up near Coffs a few years ago. Read the report - witnesses reported wing failure but the ATSB did not accept that The investigation could not determine the reason for the pilot losing control of the aircraft. ..... no evidence was found to support the reported observations of the left or the right wings folding up or a part of the aircraft separating in flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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