Marty_d Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 One for those knowledgeable types. I was watching the movie "Stealth" the other night (yes, that's 2 hours of my life I won't get back, and I should know better than to watch any movie starring Jamie Foxx and Jessica Biel). Anyway, watchability aside, the basic plot is that three crack pilots flying hypersonic stealth fighters are ordered to take on a new "wingman", a robotic UAV which becomes self-aware and starts ignoring orders. The interesting bit, for me, was the design of the manned aircraft. A variation of the F-14 swing-wing, with one major difference - the main wings are swept forward and hinged at the rear of the fuselage (hinged at the leading edge at the wing root) - so for faster speeds they swing forward against the fuselage. Now some problems with this pop up immediately. First of all, when you swing your wings forward your trailing edge becomes your leading edge, with all the problems that entails with control surfaces suddenly being on the wrong side of your wing (not to mention flopping around in the mach 4 breeze). So then you need another set of control surfaces with all the weight, structural compromises and complexity that entails. But to me the big question is... if you were going to build a swing-wing aircraft that was going to do 2,700 knots, why would you do it with the airborne equivalent of suicide doors?? So there's the challenge people. Can anyone think of a design that can launch and land on an aircraft carrier, fly at speeds up to mach 4 with a rear-mounted, forward swinging forward-swept wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 One for those knowledgeable types.I was watching the movie "Stealth" the other night (yes, that's 2 hours of my life I won't get back, and I should know better than to watch any movie starring Jamie Foxx and Jessica Biel). Anyway, watchability aside, the basic plot is that three crack pilots flying hypersonic stealth fighters are ordered to take on a new "wingman", a robotic UAV which becomes self-aware and starts ignoring orders. The interesting bit, for me, was the design of the manned aircraft. A variation of the F-14 swing-wing, with one major difference - the main wings are swept forward and hinged at the rear of the fuselage (hinged at the leading edge at the wing root) - so for faster speeds they swing forward against the fuselage. Now some problems with this pop up immediately. First of all, when you swing your wings forward your trailing edge becomes your leading edge, with all the problems that entails with control surfaces suddenly being on the wrong side of your wing (not to mention flopping around in the mach 4 breeze). So then you need another set of control surfaces with all the weight, structural compromises and complexity that entails. But to me the big question is... if you were going to build a swing-wing aircraft that was going to do 2,700 knots, why would you do it with the airborne equivalent of suicide doors?? So there's the challenge people. Can anyone think of a design that can launch and land on an aircraft carrier, fly at speeds to mach 4 with a rear-mounted, forward swinging forward-swept wing? A self-launching Blanik has forward swept wings and STOL performance but speed is likely to be a problem Kaz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Llewellyn Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Since when did hypersonic and stealth go together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Llewellyn Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Since when did hypersonic and stealth go together? you're showing your age... "stealth" means, like a Thorp T-18, it has a negligible radar return; "hypersonic" is the noise a direct-drive kfm 107 makes when the prop starts to slip... and radar can't hear sound waves... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted April 26, 2014 Author Share Posted April 26, 2014 Since when did hypersonic and stealth go together? You're right - as they said in that article about the SR-72, once you go fast enough you don't have to be stealthy. We are talking Hollywood here though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daza Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Since the mid 80's i've doodled a canard FSW swing wing fighter, Wings straight out at low speed, and swung forward between 45 - 60 Deg at Vne Even grew into swinging the canard backward in snyc. With modern composites the structure presents no real issue, Never worked out how to manage the changes to CG as the wing swings, especially allowing for tandem seating. Had pictured a Mazda rotory driven ducted fan in the rear fuse for the RAAus version! Daza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted April 27, 2014 Author Share Posted April 27, 2014 Never worked out how to manage the changes to CG as the wing swings, especially allowing for tandem seating. Had pictured a Mazda rotory driven ducted fan in the rear fuse for the RAAus version! Daza Maybe have the entire cockpit interior on slides?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zibi Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I don't know about your other requirements, but there were tests with forward swept wing fighters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_X-29 And it's not exactly what you were asking for, but there's also been tests with joined wing fighters: I've read somewhere, that some of those joined wing aircraft were going to have a movable wing (so at least half of it is forward swept and movable) No idea about how stealthy or supersonic they are or if they can land on a carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Llewellyn Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Wrong photo, I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 stealth? just turn off the transponder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 What about the slew wing? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/AD-1_ObliqueWing_60deg_19800701.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 What about the slew wing?http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/AD-1_ObliqueWing_60deg_19800701.jpg At least the ailerons stay at the back of the wing on that design, unless they swing it completely around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Pike Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 A google search for Bugatti aircraft/airplane will show a remarkable areoplane designed in the late 1930's. It has forward facing wings and a number of very advance features for the time. Large scale models have been built and flown with considerable success, particularly from an Australian group. I will not bang on about it as it is well worth a look, and a singularly good example of the old design adage, " Form follows function" or more poetically, " A thing of beauty is a joy forever". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Earl there is now a replica: http://bugatti100p.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 would love to see that thing fly, looks like they are making pretty good progress with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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