gimballock Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Yes, I've read most of what you've said, David and I have no doubt that it's all 100% true. It's sad that a genius like Scotty has not been recognised as the genius he was. However, I'm interested in the circular form of flying wing and curious to know if their lack of success is purely aesthetic or is there a serious technical issue that precludes them from regular use. (Just like the VHS vs Beta video cassette, VHS won but all accounts are that Beta was actually better! Maybe we should all be flying around in pancake-shaped aircraft!) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I've only heard good things about circular winged aircraft and there have been a few over the years. They seem to attract a lot of interest but people don't seem to actually want them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Think how much fun you could have in one of them at night with a silenced engine, playing loud spooky music and sequentially switching LEDs around the edge of the circular wing. Imagine the news the next day ...ROFLMAO (oh behave David) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 And how do we know he is not already doing it ???.........lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 How do you know I'm not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Think how much fun you could have in one of them at night with a silenced engine, playing loud spooky music and sequentially switching LEDs around the edge of the circular wing. Imagine the news the next day ... ... "Pilot 'having fun' gets shot down" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 "Flying Saucer Shock - Captured Alien Appears Human!! " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Captured Alien? Could it be Turboplanner.? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimballock Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Like the line from "Back to the Future" when he steps out if the De Lorian in the barn in the Radiation Suit & takes off the helmet.... "Look! He's already mutated into human form! Shoot it!" "Take this, you mutated son-of-a-bitch!" *BOOM* 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimballock Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 BREAKING NEWS! I made contact with David Rowe! I had a good chat with him and he was most obliging with information. He said that, as you know, efficiency of a wing drops off with aspect ratio, but then, at a certain point, it sharply rises again! He says that when the aspect ratio hits approximately 1.25, it is almost the same as an aspect ratio of 6. The aspect ratio of a complete circle is approximately 1.27, and so, with some added aerofoil at the rear, it is approximately 1.25. It doesn't actually stall, so much as it mushes. He didn't recall the actual point at which this happens knotswise. Power-out, it glides slightly better than a Drifter. It is very stable and flies quite well. It lands quite short. (He often lands it in the driveway of many farms out where he lives.) It's a standard aerofoil with a reflex (as all flying wings/tailless aircraft are.) The model glider he built had a Centre of Pressure at about 33% but on the full-scale model that proved unstable, so it was best placed at about 25%. As mentioned here before, the high undercarriage was due to the rotation angle and the need to avoid scraping your tail on the ground. Also, he said that the seating arrangement was purely due to the fact that he sits, basically, on top of the wing. He said that it's actually quite uncomfortable, so flights of more than an hour are not advised in this current model. I told him of the interest in low-aspect ratio aircraft on both here and homebuiltairplanes.com. I urged him to get onto this site as his knowledge would be invaluable - a person with first-hand experience is worth a thousand "internet armchair experts." Sadly, he doesn't frequent the internet very much, so isn't interested in getting on this site. He did, however, invite me to keep in contact and said that I am welcome to call any time I have questions. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotax618 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I have found using models that an inverse zimmerman planform has a better L/D than a circle. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotax618 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 The attached is a sketch of a possible low aspect simple aircraft. I placed the pilot below the wing to address the access, visibility and undercarriage length problems associated with this planform. I admit that it would be better looking and more efficient to sit in the wing, with transparent floor and retract U/C. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimballock Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 The attached is a sketch of a possible low aspect simple aircraft. I placed the pilot below the wing to address the access, visibility and undercarriage length problems associated with this planform. I admit that it would be better looking and more efficient to sit in the wing, with transparent floor and retract U/C. Yes, I recall that you said that you prefer the "Inverse Zimmerman" planform. Rowe's aircraft is *almost* an Inverse Zimmerman, but looking at the fly-by on the video, it's equally clipped at the front as well as the back. Have you considered building a full-scale version of this? I'd love to see any experimental aircraft of these kinds actually built and flown. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 It's a standard aerofoil with a reflex (as all flying wings/tailless aircraft are.) . What "standard" airfoil is it and what does "reflex" mean relative please? Thanks for going to this effort as well! I have found using models that an inverse zimmerman planform has a better L/D than a circle.I placed the pilot below the wing to address the access, visibility and undercarriage length problems associated with this planform.] That looks terrific and I was actually going to ask why every flying wing I see has the fuse on top, yours seems much more logical layout. Why would you not fold the wing ends down on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimballock Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 What "standard" airfoil is it and what does "reflex" mean relative please? By "standard aerofoil", I meant that it was simply one "out of the book" (i.e. one of the tried and true aerofoils used commonly) but he was unable to remember exactly which one when I was talking to him. A reflex is an upward curl at the trailing edge instead of downwards as per most regular wings on non-tailless designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Thank you. You might enjoy this Gimballock .. http://www3.nd.edu/~mav/auvsi/torres.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotax618 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 To see the sketch can be viewed by clicking the thumbnail on my previous post. I would need to build and fly more larger scale models of the concept, alas I am limited by my health these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimballock Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Thank you.You might enjoy this Gimballock .. http://www3.nd.edu/~mav/auvsi/torres.htm Thanks, Bex. Yes, the page is most interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimballock Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 To see the sketch can be viewed by clicking the thumbnail on my previous post. I would need to build and fly more larger scale models of the concept, alas I am limited by my health these days. Sorry to hear that your health is a problem, Rotax. That's a fear that we all live with. Where are you located? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimballock Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 To see the sketch can be viewed by clicking the thumbnail on my previous post. I would need to build and fly more larger scale models of the concept, alas I am limited by my health these days. Your design looks a lot like the Sukhanov Discoplane: I think that this design has it merits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Your design looks a lot like the Sukhanov Discoplane If you type in Discoplan rather than Discoplane into Google you will reap far greater rewards .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimballock Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 If you type in Discoplan rather than Discoplane into Google you will reap far greater rewards .... That is a great tip! Thank you very much! (And here I was thinking that I'm good at foreign languages! Das macht mich stink sauer!) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimballock Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 This is closer to the idea of a circular wing that I am thinking of... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I came across this just now too, I'm not actually searching for them believe it or not, pure luck! http://www.twitt.org/debpelican.htm Oh I just noticed that's also on the Twitt site, full circle! Here's your winner Gimballock .. http://www.retroplane.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3787&start=15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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