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Guest Rufus

Cheap Flying

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Guest coolmango

Hi all

 

I always thought i could never fly. Until I found out about RA-AUS. As a totally green beginner I would go into air shools - quoted hi prices, and walk out know I still can't learn to fly. Most seem to do both RA-AUS and PPL - I have had a couple of schools modify their websites when I pointed out that as a beginner to aviation - their website may as well be in a forign language.

 

We need many many more RA - AUS trainers that are "pure" only doing RA- AUS. NOT trying to tell you start wih this and go to PPL later as it count for hours.... I wanted to fly.

 

I walked into one in May determined this time - I walked out with $600.00 worth of "worthless" kit ERSA, bags, rulers... type cant see beyond making a dollar. Then I spent !50.00 on my first lesson, and I didn't even get to fly - 1 hour of theory - weather of all things ! So I didn't go back. He still emails me wnating toknow what happened. I didn't even know the difference between RA-Aus and GA.

 

I have since spoken to many people (passionatly ) about the RA- AUS option and the cost differnce, explined . I recon I could start a "pure RA -AUS school if I have an instructor and aircraft - working 60 hours week, just form the people I know.

 

It was only when I stumbled across a genuine RA-AUS air school I saw the light - it is where i learn now it is 1.5 hours drive form home. I live 10 minutes for an airport with 3 schools..

 

So some how the work needs to be clear and out there. It cost me $750.00 to understand what RA AUS is.

 

 

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Guest TOSGcentral

Yeah Coolmango – bit of a difference is there not?

 

 

Last week I was at my LAME aircraft fabricators who are making some prototype parts for me to be used in Thruster development. The situation was getting a bit pear shaped with some of the intricate design bits so I determined to get the guy actually making the parts off into a corner and explain exactly what the objective was for and how they fitted into, and also changed, the airframe design.

 

 

Once we got more into flight profiles he started bewailing that he had been trying to learn to fly but it was costing him $260 per hour (without landing fees) just for a Skipper!

 

 

Now he is not long out of apprenticeship and not very well off financially. He does brilliant metalwork and would be even more of an asset to the industry with pilot qualifications.

 

 

I suggested that he try RAAus where it would cost him over half less per hour. He was shocked and responded “I cannot do that – the hours do not count towards a PPLâ€. That is what he had been told by his GA school.

 

 

I assured him that the hours do count but it was any school’s choice whether they recognised them – you cannot force them to. I suggested that he try a combined RAAus/GA school or simply went straight RAAus and then found a school that would accept the hours and so convert him to PPL later.

 

 

So I guess we will have another member coming along.

 

 

By the way Coolmango – all that expensive gear you were sold – hang on to it. It may not be relevant to you now but it will be a bit further down the track.

 

 

Aye

 

 

Tony

 

 

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Guest coolmango

Hi Tony

 

I think the schools are not focusing on teaching RA- AUS training - just a longer stream of income. They use it as a marketing tool and bambusal we poor folk are are very green.

 

You see I could not care less if I had to have a PPL or CPL or what ever. All I knew was that I wanted to fly. I will end up buying an RA-AUS aircraft soon - now I know about it. I am not a rich cash cow that the schools hope for.

 

It seems to me some internal marketing to RA-AUS qualifed instructors could benifit all. Even RA-AUS advertising in the flying magazines themselves. I expect the respose would be rather unexpected.

 

I have been reading them for years and had no idea what RA-AUS ment, just thought it was one of the things I needed. When it is gold on its own.

 

The common thread is that schools seem to meld RA-AUS and PPL stuff all together. I now relise I need all this ERSA at some point etc - but for crying out loud - I am there to learn to fly. Right now I can't afford lessons and I have a big blue Jefferson bag, cross country maps rules and books, I don't seem to need for some time. Suring to build my passion and get me into thte air for recreational flying is what is should be about.

 

So they seem to loose the plot that RA-AUS is a cheaper and different alrernative to PPL that is designed for the purpose of recreational flying. And unless you have some idea about what you actually need - they don't tell you. I visted 3 schools this year, several last year. Spent several hours talking to people on phones and face to face. Yet none of explained RA-AUS. As it turns out a PPL is not what I am after.

 

The point is I would have rather bought this stuff I need later - at a later date, and spent the money actually flying and "proper brief"s.

 

I know they all need ot make a quid - but if they seperated RA-AUS and promoted the benifits instead of a stepping stone to PPL, I think that it would keep more students and more RA-AUS members too.

 

RA-AUS has a limited visability to the uneducated. I only knew of "PPL" as a way to fly. I will never need 4 seats, and I want to fly for personal pleasure !

 

 

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It has been said that GA is in trouble in Australia. From Coolmango's story it is not hard to see why. $150 for an hours ground school is a rip off in anyones language.

 

Good on you Tony for spreading the message, it seems we must be hiding our light under a bushel.

 

I used to donate the AUF magazine to our local library, but it was never taken out, which surprised me as I covers a large industrial area with highly paid shift workers in their hundreds.

 

 

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Guest coolmango

Hi

 

My "new school" is charging me $35.00 per hour for briefings. Every second is exciting.

 

 

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last weekend i took a VH registered J230 for a nav to get my PPL back, 1.6 hr flight cost me $398!!!!

 

just reminded my why i went to RAAus in the first place!

 

 

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On 09/07/2008 at 12:26 PM, Guest coolmango said:

Hi Tony

 

I think the schools are not focusing on teaching RA- AUS training - just a longer stream of income. They use it as a marketing tool and bambusal we poor folk are are very green.

 

You see I could not care less if I had to have a PPL or CPL or what ever. All I knew was that I wanted to fly. I will end up buying an RA-AUS aircraft soon - now I know about it. I am not a rich cash cow that the schools hope for.

 

It seems to me some internal marketing to RA-AUS qualifed instructors could benifit all. Even RA-AUS advertising in the flying magazines themselves. I expect the respose would be rather unexpected.

 

I have been reading them for years and had no idea what RA-AUS ment, just thought it was one of the things I needed. When it is gold on its own.

 

The common thread is that schools seem to meld RA-AUS and PPL stuff all together. I now relise I need all this ERSA at some point etc - but for crying out loud - I am there to learn to fly. Right now I can't afford lessons and I have a big blue Jefferson bag, cross country maps rules and books, I don't seem to need for some time. Suring to build my passion and get me into thte air for recreational flying is what is should be about.

 

So they seem to loose the plot that RA-AUS is a cheaper and different alrernative to PPL that is designed for the purpose of recreational flying. And unless you have some idea about what you actually need - they don't tell you. I visted 3 schools this year, several last year. Spent several hours talking to people on phones and face to face. Yet none of explained RA-AUS. As it turns out a PPL is not what I am after.

 

The point is I would have rather bought this stuff I need later - at a later date, and spent the money actually flying and "proper brief"s.

 

I know they all need ot make a quid - but if they seperated RA-AUS and promoted the benifits instead of a stepping stone to PPL, I think that it would keep more students and more RA-AUS members too.

 

RA-AUS has a limited visability to the uneducated. I only knew of "PPL" as a way to fly. I will never need 4 seats, and I want to fly for personal pleasure !

 

 

It seems to me that weight-shift trikes, powered parachutes and paragliders are what has replaced the cheap, rag-and-tube ultralights. I don't know much about it, but if you want to fly as cheaply as possible, at all times of the day, a weight shift trike might be the way to go. 

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Posted (edited)

Good lord, Penname, where did you dig this up? The previous post was eleven (yes, 11) years and one day ago! July 9, 2008 to be exact.

 

PS. Cheap flying is an oxymoron.

Edited by red750
Add PS.
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" The point is I would have rather bought this stuff I need later - at a later date, and spent the money actually flying and "proper brief"s. "

Don't fly, just concentrate on the getting through all the paper-work, & math's (converting 60 minutes to 10 for billing your flight time.) Basic, nav, passeger, cross-country. The list of test is Very long.

One for Red750, " PS. Cheap flying is an oxymoron." That's why I chose a Hummel.

 

 

Hummelbird pilot report.pdf  (good writeup)

spacesailor

 

 

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16 hours ago, red750 said:

Good lord, Penname, where did you dig this up? The previous post was eleven (yes, 11) years and one day ago! July 9, 2008 to be exact.

 

PS. Cheap flying is an oxymoron.

Totally agree with the oxymoron statement. There is cheaper flying but no such animal as cheap flying!

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A nice Drifter or Thruster kept in a farmer's shed is both cheap and fun.

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How is it fun IF you keep it in the shed?  I know what you mean. I just couldn't let it pass without comment. You certainly can't leave a fabric plane out in the open and they are BOTH good. I'd favour the Drifter if you only fly it yourself (and perhaps "trusted " others.). Two strokes are becoming  rarer. They DO require a bit of "extra" understanding. Nev

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21 hours ago, red750 said:

Good lord, Penname, where did you dig this up? The previous post was eleven (yes, 11) years and one day ago! July 9, 2008 to be exact.

 

PS. Cheap flying is an oxymoron.

Turned up in my new post feed! 

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" Two strokes are becoming  rarer. "

Hirth are still in business. & a renewed interest in the 1940's designed McCulloch, with a new supplier in the USA, making castting's for starter's & alternators, as well as an electronic ignition system.

spacesailor

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I think you may well be onto a good idea their Rom, when thinking of a solution to the very obvious push from the company towards attracting as many pilots to join regardless of weather they are ultralights flyers or not ( by changing the regs to include them ) your idea of various class,s determined by the combination of the aircrafts hp cruise speed and stall speed instead of MTOW would effectively ensure that those of us not interested in pseudo GA aircraft (and the reason we did,nt train for it in the first place,) would redraw the line effectivly for us without effecting the others or their ambitions. Cheers hargraves

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Posted (edited)

DON't forget the" wing loading"

" aircrafts hp cruise speed and stall speed instead of MTOW "

35hp,  80_90 Mph, 40Mph,

should fit your bill

6 to 8 ltrs per hour AND all metal !.

Pity the Bureaucrats had to kill it off !.

Kids of all ages still love to sit in it .

If someone is  in your aircraft, do you have to have their permission to post "their " picture. Or name. (Sister,in,laws, grand-kids in my picture)

(was on the RAA registration list, but removed)

spacesailor
 

Edited by spacesailor
couldent remember name for my picture

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On 10/07/2019 at 11:23 AM, APenNameAndThatA said:

It seems to me that weight-shift trikes, powered parachutes and paragliders are what has replaced the cheap, rag-and-tube ultralights. I don't know much about it, but if you want to fly as cheaply as possible, at all times of the day, a weight shift trike might be the way to go. 

That is not necessarily the case,  a new 4 stroke trike from Air Creation, P&M or Airborne will set you back anywhere between $60k to $110k.   However there are plenty of second hand dinged up, poorly maintained, high hours trikes out there for sale.

also there is little or no difference in ownership costs between a trike or a 3 axis ultralight.  I know as I went down this path.

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It's not impossible (in theory) but to realise it in practice, is not  easy or guaranteed. Flying machines eat money. IF there was an easy and cheap way, everyone would be doing it.. Nev

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"IF there was an easy and cheap way, everyone would be doing it.. Nev " (to fly).

The BUREAUCRATS   will kill it off quick !.

Aren't the "Nanotrikes cheap to run.

spacesailor

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Th lowest cost flying I've ever known ( Three axis ) is the Mike Whittaker aircraft designs. . .they were originally designed by Mike when he was working on the Concord design team, when somebody bet him that he couldn't design and fly a home built aircraft in less than a year.  He DID.  and many of them are still flying to this day.    Mainly using a variety of 2 stroke engines, but still a lot of fun for not much money.   The MW aircraft club is based at my airfield.. . .there are around 14 of them, 2 seat, single seat, 2 sat tandm and 2 seat side by side versions.

 

They are tough, solid and easy to fly, although fairly spartan in creature comfort.  They trade in the UK for circa £700 to £1500 depending upon condition and type.   Very easy to maintain and fly, but with the caveat that you have to get training in an approved type, and they are Not.. 

 

http://www.mwclub.org/aircraft/

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