VANS RV's under RAA

[Yenn]

Mat.

 

The original debate here was whether or not an RV6 could be flown under RAA ,to be honest if it can't I'll fly GA if at some time I can then I probably wouldn't as I wouldn't want the restrictions that come with the turf.

 

Lost me here mate I can't begin to work out what you are trying to say, but no doubt it is good stuff. Rather along the lines of "it's warmer now than what it was when it wasn't as warm as what it is now, isn't it"

 

 

[Guest J430]

Matt

 

RPTs generally are very good to mix with, I have found this as you have.... but I suspect you are one of the good guys, not one of the threats. Unfortunately its the ones who dont play by the rules for whatever reason that are most likely to cause an accident. Even in the recent case of an A320 still on the PAL freq and an U/L in the circuit having a close encounter, the RPT guy stuffed up, but there was no second defence, no radar, I gather no transponder so no TCAS warning, and of course no ADSB. Either a Transponder or ADSB (would have both if the Microair unit was used) would solve a few of the awareness matters.

 

As for accidents, there have been a few in the USA that were the turning point for transponder and TCAS! Would I object to fitting ADSB out to my plane.... NO. As it was originally proposed I would have had it for free, just like you would have. Sure every two years a check for $150 approx, but I pay thata now on a Mode C, the likely Microair product would have had Mode C and ADSB all in one so no extra weight. All you need is a TSO'd encoder and have it checked every two years. So where is the problem? Two many fictional stories.

 

Yenn

 

There seems to be a fear that flying a bigger, faster or heavier plane is harder and I cannot see it as being logical. It is no harder to fly a C182 than a C150 except for the CS prop and cowl flap controls and they are both easier to fly than a Thruster, I will not compare with a Drifter as I haven't flown one.

 

Maybe you should go find a C150 or drifter pilot and stick him in a C210 or C185, and I wanna watch. The latter in particular from a SAFE distance. Flying straight and level and some nice turns here and there, but a Bonanza, C210 or something similar is a whole big handful when all you have flown is a C150. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise.

 

Sure it can be learned, but its not just a walk up read the checklist and go deal, and I do believe you would know that anyway.

 

J:thumb_up:

[Guest brentc]

Careful with your RV6 when you do try aero's. They are not easy to get out of a spin. A good mate ended up pulling out of a spin at 500 ft after spinning (sometimes inverted) from 9,000 ft. Even Vans don't recommend spinning in the 6. Many of the other Vans models are approved for spinning. RV6's are good for a loop and a barrell roll but personally I wouldn't do much more than that.

 

 

[facthunter]

Spin recovery.

 

The general problem with difficult spin recovery, is a blanketed rudder. The Rudder ends up in the turbulent air from the horizontal stabiliser, and is ineffective at stopping the yaw. Sometimes it is too small or just located in the wrong place,( or a combination of both) Nev...

 

 

[Spriteah]

:faint:Would adjusting power settings help you out? Changing the airflows?

 

 

[Guest J430]

It can and has, however its not a guaranteed outcome!:confused:

 

J:wave:

 

 

[Spriteah]

Yes well so far my experience has not put me into an uncomfortable spin. I don't particularly look forward to it however I hope to build both rv12 and rv6.

 

I like to learn how to fly the plane not just potter around...... Hopefully all our flying leads to live and learn and not the alternative.

 

Jim.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Jim this guy was very experienced and ended up getting out of the spin by significantly manipulating power. That being said, next time it may come out straight away, but then again, not at all. Something to avoid in the first place.

 

 

[Guest J430]

Exactly what BrentC says! My knowlege of throttle bailing out of a spin was a good friend in a C150 Aerobat....... so its not just the RV6 ya gotta watch!

 

By the way, I assume you have an RV6 kit because they do not sell them anymore. Probably plenty around not complete, but no new ones. The 7 replaces it, and they are a nice machine to fly. I have flown both and the 7 is the go.

 

J

 

 

[facthunter]

General advice.

 

IF you want to get involved with spinning, (and this question seems to surface all the time since spinnable training aircraft were not available). do the proper training in a proper well maintained plane of a type which allows spinning, with a good instructor who should explain all the physics, aerodynamics and various aircrafts characteristics, or stay right away from it. No RAAus type of aircraft has been spin evaluated, and of course it is not a normal manoeuver, so is not permitted. I have had friends who have died in spins and quite a few who were lucky they didn't and they were all very qualified instructors with a high level of aerobatic experience. Nev...

 

 

[antzx6r]

Rudder design

 

The general problem with difficult spin recovery, is a blanketed rudder. The Rudder ends up in the turbulent air from the horizontal stabiliser, and is ineffective at stopping the yaw. Sometimes it is too small or just located in the wrong place,( or a combination of both) Nev...

This is interesting, tho off topic a bit. Not just for the people intersted in aeros but safety also.

 

Obviously we are taught to recover well before a spin is fully developed, but I quite like the idea of owning an aircraft that can be recovered from whatever trouble(perish the thought) i've managed to get myself into. I suppose you just have to look at the edge and extra, but what kind of design is a good design in this respect? Or is it a case of the more rudder you have, the more you have to be 'on the ball'.

 

(wow, thats both metaphorical and literal. small things-small minds )

 

 

[Yenn]

If you look at the RV6 you will see that the rudder is well back and the horizontal stabiliser will tend to blanket it, but you will also see that the rudder extends well below the stab which should allow spin recovery.

 

If you let the spin develop it will often take a lot longer to recover. I have held a Chipmunk in a spin until it became a flat spin and from there I think it took about 4 turns to recover. A long while ago and I cannot remember how many turns it took to develop the flat spin, nor the height loss, but it was several thousand feet. Good fun!

 

 

[facthunter]

How much.

 

If you are designing for performance, then anything more than what is needed is causing a performance penalty, so the tendency to fit minimum "tail feathers". You can also try to achieve stability or a greater measure of control in the design. I personally prefer control but not to the point of having an aeroplane that is unstable. It is always a compromise. Some fin/rudder combo's are more for style than effect. Why do many aircraft have rear sloping rudders? They have disadvantages that are known, and I am not aware of any advantages, other than a "fast" modern look. There are empirical concepts about that enable anyone interested to assess whether the rudder might be such that a specific recovery technique MIGHT be required. eg. the Stearman doesn't recommend using full forward stick recovery as the useful part of the rudder is the lower part. This becomes fairly obvious when you look at it, and its relationship with the elevators. A properly designed aircraft will fall out of a spin, if it's not loaded too far aft, if the controls are centred. Trouble is they are not always designed that way, however, most have to be put into a spin whether inadvertently or not, by having tha ball off-centre and the stick right back. Nev..