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Kyle Communications

My Savannah S model rebuild Blog

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Started fitting the new seat arrangement I am putting in. It should make it far more comfortable than the originals.

Using the sliding seat parts that ICP produce I copied the ones we got and have made it a bit easier to remove if necessary by splitting the main pan. Have a bracket on the back of the crossmember to hold the front of the seat tray and will make my own side brackets. The original seat trays are only 25thou so will keep the rear section at 25 but will make the main pan out of 35 thou. This is just some 16 thou to get all the shapes and reliefs done then once all fitting nicely they will be used as templates for the final version. This way I can either fit a better seat of I will make one from various layers of foam. It will be a lot more comfy than the originals. Also cut some stainless steel plate to be used to make the rudder pedals extensions so once they are a bit further along will do another post 

 

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Hi Mark, re the ICP adjustable seats:

 

Having heard very varying reports of how comfortable/uncomfortable they may be, I took some careful measures of angles and shape.

I then did the same with the driver's seat of my Volvo....(okay, laugh, but shortly after I got it I did 6hrs of winding NZ roads each way nonstop with a 1 hr meeting in the middle one day, I'm well past retirement, not as flexible as I once was, and I arrived home 13hrs later entirely free of crimps or discomfort of any kind.)

I then overlaid the ICP profile over the the Volvo profile, expecting to find major differences. )

 

What I found instead is that, while there is (obviously) less of the ICP seat (it doesn't extend forward so far, and the back is less high) the profile of what is there is almost identical to the Volvo.

Armed with that info, I have been working on more comfortable padding for the seat, and have arrived at a 20mm closed cell foam infill for the seat pan, overlaid with a 40mmlayer of lighter open cell foam. Over this I have the seat cover provided with the kit. The whole lot velcros in place neatly and securely. And it feels pretty good.

 

It's very early days yet...tomorrow I hope to put the wings on...but I'm optimistic!

 

PS. The seat cover provided come with a pronounced central padded area: it is domed up sharply in the centre. I don't know about you, but my bum is not concave, so I decided to remove the padding. This was something of a mistake: the padding is strongly attached to the fabric by the welding process, and while removing the bulk of it (from underneath) was not difficult, removing the lumpy residue was very challenging. Fortunately, I only did this on one seat, so I shall be able to swap and compare notes. I'm guessing at this point that the unmodified seat lining will also work fine with the above layers of foam under it.

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Hi Bob

 

Danny has the actual ICP seats. He is going to fit his and try them but the way we have done the floor pan he can remove them easily  but from all reports I have had most dont like them. I on the other hand have no seat as yet and have not decided how I will go. Once I get the base flooring in and I can actually sit in it I will try a couple of options and possibly even make a seat mold more accustomed to my shape. The other option is to just make a all foam version like Peter Bleys did for his. If I can find the pics I took of his I will post them here but it was made from several layers of different density foam. I sat in his and they were just great. Super comfortable especially for my now boney bum. I have just come back from Danny's place tonight. We have bent the stainless toe extenders for the pedals now I just have to do some lightening holes and decide on what size to trim them before tig welding them onto the pedals

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Hi Mark, I'll try and get some pics today of how I shaped my seat pads: it's pretty straightforward, but Danny may be interested.

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Mark, pics of the seat cushions for the ICP adjustable seat (with more accurate foam thicknesses) :

 

15mm closed cell foam, cut to shape  and contact glued to to match the seat pan shape, including the raised edges. The glider boys swear by this stuff, and it's great to work with.

40mm upholstery foam laminated on top with contact adhesive. (I'm going to spray something dark on the edges of this so it blends in).

Velcro to prevent this moving in the seat pan.

And the supplied 'padded' seat velcroed over the top.

 

Very simple, feels very comfortable and secure, and avoids all the complications of DIY upholstery. I'm 175cm (5'9") and approx 85Kg.

I used self-adhesive velcro throughout, but it doesn't stick well to the supplied seat fabric (it works well elsewhere). The velcro under the front of the seat needs to be the wide stuff, and I already fixed that with contact adhesive, as the self-adhesive doesn't hold there at all.

 

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Thanks Mark. Very simple, really, but I'm optimistic it will make a big difference...certainly the supplied seat coverings are not enough.

 

And, as with various other parts of this build.......I have heaps of foam etc left over......funny how that keeps happening............)

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On 7/12/2019 at 7:54 PM, IBob said:

Mark, pics of the seat cushions for the ICP adjustable seat (with more accurate foam thicknesses) :

 

15mm closed cell foam, cut to shape  and contact glued to to match the seat pan shape, including the raised edges. The glider boys swear by this stuff, and it's great to work with.

40mm upholstery foam laminated on top with contact adhesive. (I'm going to spray something dark on the edges of this so it blends in).

Velcro to prevent this moving in the seat pan.

And the supplied 'padded' seat velcroed over the top.

 

Very simple, feels very comfortable and secure, and avoids all the complications of DIY upholstery. I'm 175cm (5'9") and approx 85Kg.

I used self-adhesive velcro throughout, but it doesn't stick well to the supplied seat fabric (it works well elsewhere). The velcro under the front of the seat needs to be the wide stuff, and I already fixed that with contact adhesive, as the self-adhesive doesn't hold there at all.

 

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Hi Bob,

 

It looks really professional. I am sure they will be comfortable.

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Hi Hank, rumour has it someone down south was/is working on a complete upholstered seat or seat replacement. I'm hopeful that I won't require that...)

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The back has been crook as this past 2 weeks so havent done much work on Mabel. Its bearable now thank god. Got some 0.032 alu sheet so made the seat bases from it and also the side plates that hold the seat edges. Its been a pain in the ar#se job fitting these into the aircraft even though I had a ICP version although its been changed. Instead of 0.025 seat bases and side brackets its been upgraded and the angles have been changed. I still have good clearance over the rudder cable pulleys but it is closer. This should allow a whole different options for seats. I also have fitted them so the whole lot is removeable with nutserts. The side support on the centre tunnel is held by nutserts so the main tray is easy to get out. The main bottom tray also has a right angle reverse edge folded to it makes the seat base much stronger. I think I may even still put a 0.032 seat strengthener under the base as well to make it all nice and solid. The pax side is done and have half the pilot side ready to go in. I have also a front support rail off my main from crossmember. All I have to do is make the cut outs for the 2 support brackets for the twin stick mods. Should have it all done and alodined and fitted this weekend so then the fuselage can co back onto the moveable frame I made which leaves the big table free to start on the wings as well as working on the fuselage 

 

 

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Managed to get the seats and centre tunnel all done today. I am pretty happy with the way it has turned out and the bases are all totally removable if I need to get to anything. They are super strong yet pretty light still strong enough for my big bum. Dont have any idea about the seats yet but I can literally fit any sort of seat now with this base. All I have to do is fold up a front cover that will go from the top of the crossmember back down to the seat base to give me a nice flat front section that is under my legs. That will just be made out of 0.016 as its not needed for any strength just cosmetic really. Tomorrow I hope to get the fuselage back onto the dolly

 

 

 

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Mark, what is the part with the big round hole in it, between floor and seat front, in the second pic above?

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Hi Bob

 

Part of the twin stick install kit are 2 right angle brackets that mount behind the full height cross member to give the member support. The twinn sticks have brackets that go onto the front of the cross member but it is actually pretty flimsy so to make it a lot stronger it has those 2 supports. One on either side of the tunnel. I had to modify them to be able to bring the flat floor to the front at the back side of the cross member. My seat floor also has now a right angle piece on each side of the rear of the cross member for it to sit on to give the seat base support. The cutout I made on these triangle shaped support brackets also hold the floor base as well so it is at the same height as the right angle pieces I have fitted. The pics attached should show you

 

 

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Got some more work done on the weekend. The old birdsville track is getting better but still bites me occasionally 😞 but got to get this finished

 

Got the right wing together with the new one piece skin tensioners we made up also the first of the 0.020 skins on..heaps better to work with. All the holes lined up thank god. I did have to fix a few of the ribs as you have seen some of the butchery done on this when it was first built so the wings are no better. I have cut small 0.020 strips and glues them to the underside of the rib edges where the holes have been gouged out or redrilled. So the rivet pulls nicely to the rib. The top rear skin is clecoed on and the wing is now over on its back now. We are changing the tank arrangements. Never have I used all the fuel I can carry with the 4 tanks currently although you cant use all the fuel in the tanks anyway due to the way they are mounted the position of the fuel pickup and of course they are so huge in the flat base area so you actually cant use about the last 5 to 10 litres reliably. So we have come up with a different tank to go into the second bay space. I will post some pics later this week when starting on it but essentially we will have a 7inch thin walled alu tube that is 560mm long which will have ends welded on it then at the inboard side there will be a 4inch tube welded to the very base of the large tube but at right angles to it which extends down towards the trailing edge of the wing. This will then feed into a tee connector at the rear of the original plastic tank. This should give us a 16litre total tank so one on each side will add 32 litres of actual usuable fuel as it is round it will drain all the fuel out of that tank and it will be in parallel with the original tank which is 36 litres but actual usable is around 30 litres and thats if you dont fill them right to the top. The tank will be mounted close to the spar and anchored off the rib either side and the rear 100mm section anchored so it can move also you can now angle this to make sure you drain all the fuel out. It should become clearer once I show some pics....we think it should work well but of course until we build the proto we wont know. 

 

Danny will start the new cabin frames next week and I have also started on extending the rudder pedals using the stainless paddles we bent up. Will get them tig welded next week then I can mount the pedals and start with getting the firewall in

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So here is the idea for the new tanks. I have to cut the 100mm hole into the larger tube and right to the edge at the side so the 100mm section is at the bottom. Then the 100mm gets trimmed for the inside and the lot then tig welded.

 

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Working on some 3D modeling to get the shapes cut out of the tubing so they can be welded for the fuel tanks. Also drilled the stainless steel extensions for the rudder pedals ground them so they would fit then got our gun tig welder guy at work to hide all my mistakes. Now I can adjust them and get them mounted into the floor and the firewall can start to go in.

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Working on some 3D modeling to get the shapes cut out of the tubing so they can be welded for the fuel tanks. Also drilled the stainless steel extensions for the rudder pedals ground them so they would fit then got our gun tig welder guy at work to hide all my mistakes. Now I can adjust them and get them mounted into the floor and the firewall can start to go in.

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The firewall is now in and most of the brackets on it are all riveted or bolted. Made to new support brackets for the under ledge crossmember at the firewall out of 1mm. The new style bracket at the bottom of the nose leg I have but I dont think it is strong enough so I will make 2 new stainless ones the same as I did for the XL. Just have to put the engine mount support brackets on and drill the firewall once I get the engine mount on. I was able to reuse the inside trailing edge underneath section of the wing but have had to make a new outer section. I made a second one as well for the other wing to make sure I have one. This is 0.025 mm sheet. alodined them now also painted the bottom sie of both panels as these corrode out badly as moisture or water does sit in this section.

 

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This has the outer ends of the firewall shelf attached to the side skins, with 2 rivets, by the look of it.  I'd heard of this but not seen it...what's the thinking there, I wonder???

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 Those things are built like a sherman tank . What do they weigh? You can tell Me, I'll keep it a secret .Nev

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8 minutes ago, facthunter said:

 Those things are built like a sherman tank . What do they weigh? You can tell Me, I'll keep it a secret .Nev

Oh, 'bout 3hundred and mumble..............

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The extra support was bought out to stop that firewall shelf from cracking along its length. It has 2 rivets at the side and then the vertical part to attach to the skins. I will take a better picture for you but it will be self explanitory

 

Nev it looks like a tank but the alu is quite thin in most bracketry used thoughout the aircraft. Most S models come out from about 305 to 330kg. The rating plate says 278kg but that is bollocks..you would never get one at that weightIMG_7482.thumb.jpg.ae7c793d6ab347940ceeb60340d1b96a.jpg

 

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On 08/08/2019 at 8:28 PM, Kyle Communications said:

Working on some 3D modeling to get the shapes cut out of the tubing so they can be welded for the fuel tanks. Also drilled the stainless steel extensions for the rudder pedals ground them so they would fit then got our gun tig welder guy at work to hide all my mistakes. Now I can adjust them and get them mounted into the floor and the firewall can start to go in.

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Hi Mark,

 

I like the rudder pedal extensions.  I'm installing mine at the moment - just ran the rods between pedals and noseleg - and I was sitting in it yesterday testing the pedals.  Trouble is you can't help but move the brake pedals when operating the rudder, which is not ideal.  (My rudder pedals are from a Sav so same setup as yours).

 

Think I'll get my local TIG welding bloke to add a plate to mine too, similar to what you have there.

Edited by Marty_d
Flow

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