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Geoff_H

RA licence and aircraft rego

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I am still a GA pilot, but now retired and my beloved Mooney sold I am looking for a smaller simpler VFR aircraft. Something that costs less but still gives that joy of flying. My wife hates flying so long distance is no longer a requirement. RA flying looks to suit me, however I am having trouble understanding the various aircraft tail number designations. What's the difference between 28 and 19? Why was the Morgan numbers changed. I want to limit my spending, which aircraft type should I buy?

 

 

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The CASA material is pretty complicated by all of the cross references to different parts of the regulations.

 

But there's a good summary of the categories in the current issue (Jan/March 2017) of Aero Australia magazine.

 

 

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I am still a GA pilot, but now retired and my beloved Mooney sold I am looking for a smaller simpler VFR aircraft. Something that costs less but still gives that joy of flying. My wife hates flying so long distance is no longer a requirement. RA flying looks to suit me, however I am having trouble understanding the various aircraft tail number designations. What's the difference between 28 and 19? Why was the Morgan numbers changed. I want to limit my spending, which aircraft type should I buy?

You should buy one of these. In fact this one even LOL.

 

http://recreationalflying.com/classifieds/x-air-hanuman-for-sale.271/

 

 

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The way things are if you still have a class 2 buy a good Piper Cub at the right price and mix around and enjoy it. See how the RAAus scene settles down and play it by ear, after that. Nev

 

 

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Most RAA aircraft you'll find are either 24 prefix or 19 prefix.

 

19 are kit/home built. Owner maintained. Some limitations where you can fly I think.

 

24 are factory built and can be used for hire/reward & training if L2 maintained. (Private use can be L1 (owner) maintained).

 

 

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The way things are if you still have a class 2 buy a good Piper Cub at the right price and mix around and enjoy it. See how the RAAus scene settles down and play it by ear, after that. Nev

Are you suggesting registering it as a RAAus aircraft? What is the weight of a cub? Is there not still a weight limit for RAAus.

 

If you're suggesting leaving it as a VH registered then that's basically no different from the mooney.

 

But from my interpreting of his original post he wanted to go to RAAus. Which I think ( might be wrong here) means not a cub but a a/c registerable as an RAAus. Assuming a piper cub is not registerable in RAAus.

 

In the same vein- a question - under RAAus rules can you buy either a 19 or 24 already fully built and then do your own maintenance? Is their a 51% build rule before you can do your own maintenance like with VH experimental class?

 

 

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No way have I suggested register it as RAA. It's totally different from a Mooney. Its simple and basic and fun to fly and IF it's in good condition and Hangared it will cost no more than an RAAus plane to operate. May even cost less as there are NO fees to join CASA. Annual inspections wouldn't be any dearer than having an L2 or 4 or whatever if they get the correct renumeration. If you do some of it under the LAME it's not expensive. An owner is permitted to do certain work anyhow. When he knows where the RAAus is heading (and CASA) sell it if there is any point going RAAus in it's ultimate form with another aircraft if need be..Nev

 

 

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Are you suggesting registering it as a RAAus aircraft? What is the weight of a cub? Is there not still a weight limit for RAAus.If you're suggesting leaving it as a VH registered then that's basically no different from the mooney.

 

But from my interpreting of his original post he wanted to go to RAAus. Which I think ( might be wrong here) means not a cub but a a/c registerable as an RAAus. Assuming a piper cub is not registerable in RAAus.

 

In the same vein- a question - under RAAus rules can you buy either a 19 or 24 already fully built and then do your own maintenance? Is their a 51% build rule before you can do your own maintenance like with VH experimental class?

Yes and no.

 

If it's 24 or 55 reg it came out of a factory and if you want to use it for hire and reward then it needs to be maintained by an RAAus L2 maintenance holder or as an RAAus pilot certificate holder you can do an online exam to get L1 and do your own maintenance.

 

19 reg is home built and same applies to maintenance with exclusion that no hire or reward so no requirement for L2.

 

Regardless of reg you can elect to use an L2 or anyone you like to do so it so long as it's not for hire and reward.

 

Difference between 19 and the 24/55 reg is when you want to modify. EG change the prop for a different one. Then you run into the need to refer to RAAus tech office and involve L2 or L3/L

 

 

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No way have I suggested register it as RAA. It's totally different from a Mooney. Its simple and basic and fun to fly and IF it's in good condition and Hangared it will cost no more than an RAAus plane to operate. May even cost less as there are NO fees to join CASA. Annual inspections wouldn't be any dearer than having an L2 or 4 or whatever if they get the correct renumeration. If you do some of it under the LAME it's not expensive. An owner is permitted to do certain work anyhow. When he knows where the RAAus is heading (and CASA) sell it if there is any point going RAAus in it's ultimate form with another aircraft if need be..Nev

Nev, I do not wish to hijack a thread but I am interested in what it is that might be going on at the RaAus, you have eluded to some change in your posts "When he knows where the RAAus is heading", the reason I ask is that I am not an RaAus member however it has crossed my mind to look and changing I'm just not sure if Trike Pilots have any more support with these guys than with anyone else.

 

Craig

 

 

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Your guess is as good as mine, Craig. Seek counsel from experienced trike pilots. Some of the best have been here. Nev

 

 

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Are you suggesting registering it as a RAAus aircraft? What is the weight of a cub? Is there not still a weight limit for RAAus.If you're suggesting leaving it as a VH registered then that's basically no different from the mooney.

 

But from my interpreting of his original post he wanted to go to RAAus. Which I think ( might be wrong here) means not a cub but a a/c registerable as an RAAus. Assuming a piper cub is not registerable in RAAus.

 

In the same vein- a question - under RAAus rules can you buy either a 19 or 24 already fully built and then do your own maintenance? Is their a 51% build rule before you can do your own maintenance like with VH experimental class?

The J3 MTOW is 554 kg, later models are over 600kg.

 

 

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.... I am looking for a smaller simpler VFR aircraft. Something that costs less but still gives that joy of flying..... so long distance is no longer a requirement. ........ I want to limit my spending, which aircraft type should I buy?

Hard to answer that without knowing what you want to do with the aeroplane? Others have mentioned a J-3 - I'd get a Clipped Wing J-3 myself and keep it on the US register. But that's not as useful as a 7ECA. My 8KCAB is even more useful.

 

 

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Geoff. After the Mooney you will find a lot of RAAaus planes are very different, high wing, light and slow. The lightness equates to low inertia and also bumpy in turbulence. I would think one of the low wing, modern designs would appeal most. For myself I would go for a Corby Starlet, nut that is 40 years old design, small and a tail dragged.

 

Wait here for a while and there will be many suggestions.

 

 

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There's a coming weight increase for RAA, been talked about for ages, and should be here "soon". Up to 760kg (Cessna 150's) rumoured up to 1500kg - taking in the RPL.

 

ELAAA Pty Ltd announced -

 

ELAAA is offering a service for Fixed Wing and Rotary Wing Aircraft at a MTOW of up to 760 kg. Flying training to RPL level with a CTA operations endorsement is planned for the FTF’s that join us. Our CFI instructors will be to the standard of being able to instruct on basic instrument flight requirements. This allows students wishing to make flying a career the ability to transition to GA Licencing.

 

 

Presumably you can transition from GA to their licence / certificate. They are not approved yet, was to be 7 Oct 2016, but now talk of Feb 2017. They were also talking of a weight increase to 1500kg MTOW with 2 POB.

 

There might be scope for a Piper / Cessna under either body.

 

 

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Hi Geoff,

 

Guess who.... Happy to chat and answer any Q's, just that I am not at YCEM this week (In Wollongong for a few days). Yes it was a nice Mooney. Hope your search for a new aircraft, gets you back flying soon.

 

 

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No way have I suggested register it as RAA. It's totally different from a Mooney. Its simple and basic and fun to fly and IF it's in good condition and Hangared it will cost no more than an RAAus plane to operate. May even cost less as there are NO fees to join CASA. Annual inspections wouldn't be any dearer than having an L2 or 4 or whatever if they get the correct renumeration. If you do some of it under the LAME it's not expensive. An owner is permitted to do certain work anyhow. When he knows where the RAAus is heading (and CASA) sell it if there is any point going RAAus in it's ultimate form with another aircraft if need be..Nev

I would heed Nevs advice here as Nobody knows what is happening with the new autocratic admin. We all hope for an improvement but many expect otherwise, before a major re-takeover, but many still support the current political style approach.

 

 

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Geoff, lots of different aircraft to choose from with varying performances. What budget limits are you looking at ? Some RAAus aircraft appear quite expensive to buy (especially new) but are reasonably cheap to maintain if owner maintained. Older aircraft such as skyfox or lightwing can be had for around $30k, newer Foxbat, savannah, are about $50k upwards. Jabiru have come down in price lately ( really good low maintenance airframe but engine requires extra dilgence and higher maintenance ). Do you have access to hangar? Single seat aircraft can be had for a song with some around $5-10k. Really up to your mission and budget as to what you buy, perhaps renting from local club may work for you. Probably a good idea to go to a few RAAus flight schools and try a variety of aircraft and get a feel for what might fit your purpose. Tom

 

 

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Budget is around the $30k mark. I used to pay$5k per year for hangaring. Now that I am retired I was hoping for an aircraft that I could trailer home, if not a smaller aircraft that would cost less to hangar. Single seat would be OK, a project nearly complete or just needing some work would be good. Not sure that timber is my bag but either metal or composite would be suitable. I would prefer something that cruised over 100 knots. The sonex and Onex looked good, the Onex probably would cost a lot less to run.

 

 

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If a third of aircraft for sale are <= $30k and a third are capable of 100 knots cruise and a third are capable of being hauled around on a trailer then you have a 1 in 27 chance of scoring what you want. Good luck!

 

 

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I tend to agree with the 3% chance of finding those 3 items. I am quite prepared to accept a project that is well on its way or an aircraft needing an engine change, I am building a composite but its going to take several years, I have spent nearly 2 years on the design, made my first tail, far far too strong on failure testing so redesign and remaking. I really want some thing to fly until the composite is completed.

 

 

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I have been trying to read the CAO's that apply to RA. What a convoluted set of documents. I don't think that I will ever understand them.

 

 

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I have been trying to read the CAO's that apply to RA. What a convoluted set of documents. I don't think that I will ever understand them.

You are correct Geoff.

 

CASA should visit NZCAA staff for some guidance...

 

 

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Your guess is as good as mine, Craig. Seek counsel from experienced trike pilots. Some of the best have been here. Nev

My gyroplane instructor Paul Bruty was badly burned converting a student from long term trike pilot to conventional controls.. The 59-60 year old student died (pushed when he meant to pull).. I would just caution any pilot at retirement age with many hours on conventional/opposite controls converting to the reverse.. Not opposed to trikes as such just sounding a note of caution.

 

 

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I have been trying to read the CAO's that apply to RA. What a convoluted set of documents. I don't think that I will ever understand them.

welcome to the club Geoff
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Budget is around the $30k mark. I used to pay$5k per year for hangaring. Now that I am retired I was hoping for an aircraft that I could trailer home, if not a smaller aircraft that would cost less to hangar. Single seat would be OK, a project nearly complete or just needing some work would be good. Not sure that timber is my bag but either metal or composite would be suitable. I would prefer something that cruised over 100 knots. The sonex and Onex looked good, the Onex probably would cost a lot less to run.

I am a convert from GA and the Jabiru is worth a look. I know they have copped some not great press lately but you can pick up a Jabiru J160/170 or the earlier models for 30K or lower. (Maybe a little more for a J170). Assuming you get a good engine they are great value and really tough aircraft. There are some 6 cylinder 55 reg models around and they will do 120 knots. With appropriate covers they will standup ok if left outside. I know a few with 6000 hours of paddock flying school and still fly well. (Engine replacement at 1,000 hours and no problems).

 

 

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