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APenNameAndThatA

Analogue Gauges in Aircraft with Glass

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Hi

 

I am trying to work out how to option a Kelpie. If I have Dynon skyview, do I need analogue speed, altitude and RPM?

 

On one hand, analogue watches are easier to read than digital watches.

 

On the other hand, if a simulated six-pack was better than tapes, then fighter pilots would use the simulated six pack, tapes would be uncool, and we would never have seen a tape in an aircraft.

 

So, there are two issues: dial vs tape, and screen vs physical thing. This ignores the requirements in a VH plane that can never fly IFR.

 

If glass is so great, why do people have the analogues right in front of them, to the left of the screen? This is confusing. I know I need to see a Dynon myself and will do that. Also, I am 48, have reading glasses, but don't need to use them to see Foxbat gauges because they are far enough away.

 

Thanks!

 

P.S. Why isn't RPM one of the analogue gauges? Surely, people need to be able to set RPM precisely and quickly so that they get predictable performance in the pattern, and elsewhere? Thanks!

 

 

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IMAG3207.jpg.e664ce83b9de7aa1dbcc5c4f68fa034a.jpg

 

HiI am trying to work out how to option a Kelpie. If I have Dynon skyview, do I need analogue speed, altitude and RPM?

 

On one hand, analogue watches are easier to read than digital watches.

 

On the other hand, if a simulated six-pack was better than tapes, then fighter pilots would use the simulated six pack, tapes would be uncool, and we would never have seen a tape in an aircraft.

 

So, there are two issues: dial vs tape, and screen vs physical thing. This ignores the requirements in a VH plane that can never fly IFR.

 

If glass is so great, why do people have the analogues right in front of them, to the left of the screen? This is confusing. I know I need to see a Dynon myself and will do that. Also, I am 48, have reading glasses, but don't need to use them to see Foxbat gauges because they are far enough away.

 

Thanks!

 

P.S. Why isn't RPM one of the analogue gauges? Surely, people need to be able to set RPM precisely and quickly so that they get predictable performance in the pattern, and elsewhere? Thanks!

I have a 10 inch Skyview in my CH701 based at Warwick. Feel free to come and have a look. I don't have back up gauges. As you say I am VFR only and hopefully can gauge airspeed by attitude and throttle setting should that ever be necessary. I didn't really have a problem adapting to the airspeed and altitude tapes and the rpm is analogue style with digital above it.

 

 

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[ATTACH=full]51783[/ATTACH]I have a 10 inch Skyview in my CH701 based at Warwick. Feel free to come and have a look. I don't have back up gauges. As you say I am VFR only and hopefully can gauge airspeed by attitude and throttle setting should that ever be necessary. I didn't really have a problem adapting to the airspeed and altitude tapes and the rpm is analogue style with digital above it.

I'm in Brisbane, so I might end up taking you up on the offer. Much appreciated. From my research (magazines and the net) the CH701 and 750 are very nice: genuine STOL and completely metal.

 

 

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I'm in Brisbane, so I might end up taking you up on the offer. Much appreciated. From my research (magazines and the net) the CH701 and 750 are very nice: genuine STOL and completely metal.

I like it, not good at STOL landings yet though and still getting used to how much it moves in bumpy air!

 

 

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I have a 10 inch dynon, plus large airspeed and alt.

 

The gauges are easier to pickup and read, almost instant.

 

I find the dynon display takes a second or two to mentally register.

 

The most critical time is landing. I glance at speed and alt. Hand on throttle. Power up/ power down. Whatever is needed.

 

But most of the time remain focused on runway. So rpm not needed.

 

 

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I have a 10 inch dynon, plus large airspeed and alt.The gauges are easier to pickup and read, almost instant.

 

I find the dynon display takes a second or two to mentally register.

 

The most critical time is landing. I glance at speed and alt. Hand on throttle. Power up/ power down. Whatever is needed.

 

But most of the time remain focused on runway. So rpm not needed.

Honestly can't say I have a problem with it, but then I don't have the gauges as a comparison/distraction.

 

 

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I do like the look of a big glass panel BUT unless it is needed for autopilot or the likes I think it is overkill for me. Actually now that I have had my plane for a little while (certainly not a long while by any standards!) I think that good old analogue gauges are plenty good enough and the only glass thing I would ever consider installing would be an iPad dedicated to Ozrunways.

 

 

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One of the things I like is the runway, airspeed and alt are in a direct vertical line of sight.

 

946296314_20150527_1740552.jpg.9e8f8a39e97ba989b438b578de191dcf.jpg

 

 

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The key factor is not about one or the other, it's about quality.

 

If you have flown a C172 with vacuum driven instruments with their fast response, ability to steady quickly, dials with clear lettering and precise gradations and needles, and then flown one of the RA machines with the usual toy glass, I'm surprised you would be asking that question.

 

 

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I have a jab 430 with Dynon D180 with autopilot and also a full suite of round gauges. Thought long and hard about that when I built it. In the end opted for complete redundancy in case the Dynon died.

 

I'm am currently still flying but had to send the Dynon back to the USA for repairs About a month ago - for the second time in the 12 years I've had the plane.

 

There's a trade off with not having all the round gauges. When the glass goes down ( not " if" but " when")

 

 

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I'm a 60+ guy and am a huge fan of my 10 inch Dynon Skyview in "tape" display mode (I've never bothered with the virtual six-pack display mode). I have no trouble seeing the displayed info, even in bright sunlight. I should add that I often use bifocal sunglasses for flying - no correction straight ahead, + 1 at reading level.

 

The Dynon's vast quantity of info available at a glance, is a huge contribution to my situational awareness at all times. The Dynon operates the autopilot, and I even get vocal warnings in my headset if engine or flight parameters go out of norm. Steam gauges won't give you that. I've never had any issues or failures with the Dynon Skyview in 6 years. It even displays Aussie Airservices maps.

 

I have no "steam gauges" at all (other than the factory fitted magnetic compass), and I wouldn't bother with them. Note that my panel also has a backup gps, and I also carry 2 iPads with OzRunways EFB.

 

 

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HiI am trying to work out how to option a Kelpie. If I have Dynon skyview, do I need analogue speed, altitude and RPM?

 

On one hand, analogue watches are easier to read than digital watches.

 

On the other hand, if a simulated six-pack was better than tapes, then fighter pilots would use the simulated six pack, tapes would be uncool, and we would never have seen a tape in an aircraft.

 

So, there are two issues: dial vs tape, and screen vs physical thing. This ignores the requirements in a VH plane that can never fly IFR.

 

If glass is so great, why do people have the analogues right in front of them, to the left of the screen? This is confusing. I know I need to see a Dynon myself and will do that. Also, I am 48, have reading glasses, but don't need to use them to see Foxbat gauges because they are far enough away.

 

Thanks!

 

P.S. Why isn't RPM one of the analogue gauges? Surely, people need to be able to set RPM precisely and quickly so that they get predictable performance in the pattern, and elsewhere? Thanks!

I figured I wanted to have a reasonable analog backup - so glass on the left and Altimeter, Speed, VSI and , precisely for the reason you mentioned , RPM gauge on the right.

 

cockpit.jpg.f3513dff3f80a11747268b0c1c6f05a5.jpg

 

 

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Skyview is lighter, cheaper (I estimate) than a suite of gauges. It tells me my ground speed, wind direction, crosswind component among other things, I thing it is great.

 

 

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Skyview is lighter, cheaper (I estimate) than a suite of gauges. It tells me my ground speed, wind direction, crosswind component among other things, I thing it is great.

Think!!!

 

 

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Plenty of the "toy " glass is now certified including the sensor pack in Dynon and some of thir units

 

The amount of info including, wind, aoa, bugs and other alarms and cautions available for similar money makes them a simple decision

 

 

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Plenty of the "toy " glass is now certified including the sensor pack in Dynon and some of thir unitsThe amount of info including, wind, aoa, bugs and other alarms and cautions available for similar money makes them a simple decision

There's toy glass and glass; I don't have a problem with the $6500 to $20,000 range.

 

 

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We have to different panels at work, one completely glass and one with just the avionics only and I prefer the avionics only panel for readability. Having the engine instruments steam makes it a lot quicker to get the whole picture. The full glass panel has digital round instruments (Tq RPM) and they're the only thing that is harder to interpret than the tapes, due to the lag which is significant and trouble with acute reading.

 

Glass is great but not for everything. In saying that I'll take all glass over no glass.

 

 

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So its how much it costs that makes it good?

 

Glass engine monitors display not only vastly more onfo but incorperate cautions and alarms, fuel flow calcs.

 

An engine gaige not watched may as well not be there

 

 

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We have to different panels at work, one completely glass and one with just the avionics only and I prefer the avionics only panel for readability. Having the engine instruments steam makes it a lot quicker to get the whole picture. The full glass panel has digital round instruments (Tq RPM) and they're the only thing that is harder to interpret than the tapes, due to the lag which is significant and trouble with acute reading.Glass is great but not for everything. In saying that I'll take all glass over no glass.

There's nothing worse in a busy circuit to have to count to three for the EFIS to catch up, then go back and have another look when you know there are instruments available which are up to speed.

 

Acute reading I also agree with; some of the readings are too small for rough air and a busy circuit.

 

A third issue, when you are renting aircraft, is that some students can't help themselves and change the view to their favourite, which means that if you have limited time, it's like getting into a new aircraft with readouts where you don't expect them and vice versa.

 

 

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So its how much it costs that makes it good?

No it's the software standard, hardware quality, and definition level of the screens - that's what costs money.

 

 

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No it's the software standard, hardware quality, and definition level of the screens - that's what costs money.

It does not.

 

You pay for having a specialized device manufactured for an extremely small market.

 

A high end glass panel doesn't even come close in power to your typical iPad - both CPU, Gpu and resolution-wise.

 

 

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If the efis is slow to update theres something wrong, even experimental ones should run as fast as analog. Ive found a big dollar avidyne was slow and clunky.

 

Getting used to a different panel is a real problem but isnt confined to glass panels, Once you get used to glass setups, very few want go back to gauges.

 

In day VFR you really shouldnt need too much in the way of instruments to fly, keeping eyes outside is more of help and avoiding collissions tp seems pretty concerned about

 

 

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If it helps, here are some views of my instrument panel, and some different Dynon Skyview display layouts that are easy to call up & toggle off. Typically I use the 3-view split with the Airservices WAC at right in a moving map mode, EMS in centre, PFD at left. An ERC Low map and geo-locating aerodrome chart views are also available in that map section.

 

Audible alerts will sound in the headset regardless of the view I have selected. That way I can primarily keep my eyes scanning outside of the cockpit, knowing I will hear an alert if something is amiss that needs attention. I certainly don't experience any display lag that others claim to experience... if anything, I would say the Dynon is immediate for all sensors - perhaps more than conventional instruments.

 

3viewWACmap.jpg.de4ee2cf3a70997647c040cbbb5222d3.jpg

 

allEMS.jpg.d50a966c0b46bfd5af53f8c8f0f266b0.jpg

 

both2.jpg.fe8d4d7bbf1b239e4bf343a35a69dd11.jpg

 

HighViewFullPanel.jpg.cf10d9e6b143a9cf8a8c28f76ee11951.jpg

 

splitNoMap2.jpg.30f5f00e6c80b60dfdf4c28bfcbc165f.jpg

 

 

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