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GA and RAA com and nav issues?


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I know this may cause upset. In the interest of safety, I have copied this from another site. Is RAA this bad? I must admit that I haven't witnessed this at my home field of TYA. Everyone practices good coms and appear to be where they say they are. We live in pretty crowded airspace as far as CTA is concerned and I haven't witnessed any grumbling about Violation of Controlled Airspace issues.


I put this down to a small group that exists in all flying activities. Ignore procedures and rules because either not up to speed or just plain ignorant occurs in GA which I have seen. GA and RAA mix quite well at places like Temora when I have been there for flying weekends so , as I say again I have not witnessed this.


On that charity tour around the country I did in May, we had a couple of well-meaning farmers with their Jabiru's as part of the contingent, and their antics made me soil my pants on more than one occasion Now I'm not having a go at the chaps in question, they are bloody nice, very generous and all that, and the experiences I am sharing here are more than anything a reflection of their standards of training, which we should all know about to be able to factor them into our planning


Firstly, the radio calls were what you would expect of a five hour PPL student, if that. I don't think I'd exaggerate if I said they probably simply wouldn't make any calls whatsoever going in and out of the rural strips they normally use. I guess most of the time they don't really need to as they're by themselves in the great outback, but they really couldn't make a call to save their lives, literally


By the end of the tour, I am happy to report, they could actually navigate controlled airspace with some degree of confidence, so we've saved at least a few souls


More worringly, they didn't have the foggiest clue about even the simplest circuit procedures, let alone other things every pilot should know: We had guys barreling down the wrong direction runway with traffic coming down final the other end, taxiing down cross-runways thinking they were taxiways after they made calls for the runway they didn't land on, taxiing down the active runway making calls for a backtrack on the inactive one, they'd be going round the circuit the wrong way, and these are just a few instances where I made a sharp turn and got the hell outta there..


Now, we'll probably be pushing this thread majorly off topic, but I would seriously question the training and testing standards of the RAA in some cases. According to their own publications, this is a known problem they're trying to address, but I am questioning why, in this over-regulated country of ours, these guys are sharing the majority of airfields with IFR traffic, often even RPT?!

In the interest of safety for everyone. If you witness this. Either have a chat to the people in question to see if they are OK with everything OR , the worse case. Report them....If we want to get access to airspace we do not want cowboys ruining it for the vast majority of seriously safe airpersons:thumb_up: This activity will cause serious damage to the whole because of the antics of just a handful. Why give the CASA need to have to step in.



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I could easily point out GA pilots doing the same thing at Rodds bay. We have had high speed single and also a twin do a beat up against the traffic flow and at low height. We have had a helicopter rushing around all ways, using the Gladstone frequency, which does not apply and he should have been n 126.70.


It is not confined to any one group of pilots, nor is it necessarily dangerous, but it is a display of poor airmanship.



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Guest Mad Dave

Yeah absoultely,


I have seen GA pilots and RAA pilots doing some pretty stupid stuff recently.


Also some of the way the excerpt is worded leaves makes you wonder what the original author was trying to acheive?


Could the RAA standards of training really be that bad that someone with a X Country endorsement could not "have the foggiest clue about even the simplest circuit procedures, let alone other things every pilot should know" or "Firstly, the radio calls were what you would expect of a five hour PPL student"?


I know we all make some mistakes at times (some of them pretty stupid), but this sounds like a bit of a bashing job to me



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Its possibly true, but as Yenn said its not restricted to the type of pilot. I've heard some really bad radio calls round Goulburn - mostly from a bunch of GA students from a school that insists they wear uniforms (for Comercial training?). Similair sorts of behaviour too, such as entering and backtracking a runway when there is one plane on final and another on base for that runway. Both ended up having to go round.


Then there was the guy who took off with the call "grasscutter 1 rolling on 22" to avoid having to pay his landing fee. But at least he made a call and got the runway right.


As an aside note what are the most entertaining radio calls you have heard?


Mine is probably:


Very professional sounding: "Goulburn traffic Warrior <somerego> joining downwind for 04 Goulburn" followed shortly afterwards by an embarresed


"uhhh Correction Goulburn traffic Warrior <differentrego> joining downwind for 08 Bankstown" then followed shortly again with a rather frustrated sounding "Correction Goulburn traffic Warrior <samerego as the secondtime> has joined downwind for 08 Goulburn"


Unfortunately I did almost exactly the same thing on a nav about a month later 031_loopy.gif.e6c12871a67563904dadc7a0d20945bf.gif



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Yep, it could be a beat-up to try and forment terror in the skies if RAA does get access to controlled airspace. All I can suggest is be the best pilot you can be. RAA mag is right. What we are seen to do now affects our freedoms in the future.



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Guest Mad Dave

....and I just re-read the original excerpt which says "a couple of well-meaning farmers with their Jabiru's" so that implies at least 2, could they both REALLY be all that bad???


I must agree with skybum though that we should all strive to be the best we can be, because let's face it, the only thing a lot of people will remember is the poor displays, not the good ones.





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Guest airsick
As an aside note what are the most entertaining radio calls you have heard?

I was flying a C172 into Canberra one day and there was also a Warrior in the vicinity. The conversation went something along the lines of:


Canberra tower: C172 <callsign> there is a Warrior to your 2 o'clock, report when you have him visual.


Me: Traffic sighted <callsign>.


Canberra tower: Best keep it that way.


Me: (Slightly puzzled look exchanged between me and passenger) Copy that.


Warrior: (Flying almost directly overhead the strip) Canberra tower we still don't have the airfield visual <callsign>.


Canberra tower: It is below you.


I then figured out why I should keep the guy visual, clearly if he couldn't spot two runways a couple of km's long he wouldn't be able to spot me!


And once when my brother was flying:


Canberra tower: Motorglider <callsign> runway 30 cleared to land.


Motorglider: Runway 30 cleared to land motorglider <callsign>.


Shortly after touchdown:


Canberra tower: Motorglider <callsign> roll through the intersection and exit taxi way kilo.


(This can be a reasonable length taxi)


Motorglider: Roll through to kilo. Request clearance to take off and land again.


Canberra tower: Negative, you landed short, you can taxi long.


The guys at Canberra are pretty good as you can tell from the last conversation. 006_laugh.gif.0f7b82c13a0ec29502c5fb56c616f069.gif



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well, the thing that makes me doubt the story is the well meaning farmers, if they only had their RA-AUS certs shouldn't have been in the controlled airspace. So if they were legitimately in there, then they also had PPLs....


*edit* heh... thats really quite entertaining airsick.



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Guest brentc

Technically it doesn't say that they were in controlled airspace, but by the end they knew where it was and how to keep out of it would be my interpretation. I know someone who went on the trip I think. It was a religeous based trip.



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Guest bigblockford545

Flying a Jab at YMMB (Morrabbin) active runway was 35R. After reporting at GMH told to report at the shopping centre which is usual. Then we get told about a runway change to 17R and asked by the tower to report at Sandown racecourse. As well as sorting us out there was a c172 ahead of us that was having a heck of a time trying to find the other end of the runway :censored:as the tower was giving him instuctions like "turn right now *callsign*" while I was orbiting sandown at Morrabbin towers request they finally got him set up on base an asked us to follw him.


The c172 was then asked to make a left turn, land and make it a full stop. Well then he turned right to land in cheltenham perhaps? I couldn't believe it, I don't think the tower could either. So after conducting another 180, and me doing a very wide base:thumb_up: he landed. Sometimes ATC don't get paid enough for the job they do....


And don't get me started on the RMIT students entering the runway while I was on short final, happened to me twice in the space of a hour.068_angry.gif.cc43c1d4bb0cee77bfbafb87fd434239.gif


have fun





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