Where does Hemples Aviation Stand?

[BLA82]

Hi all,

 

I wanted to start this thread in the hope of making sense of all the crap that is surfacing from the sad loss of Barry Hempel. Now as we know Barry was a rebel and alot of people say it was only a matter of time but I believe that regardless of that two people have lost their life. I did a google search tonight and followed a link to another forum and lets just say I am glad I am a member here, what a load of rubbish it was and a waste of space on the net!!!!!

 

So I would like to ask a few honest questions and see what others think, please lets just keep this thread free of bias and nasties as it is a recent advent and I am sure friends and family could see this.

 

Question,

 

• Where does the ultimate responsibilty in a flying school fall to make sure that rules are followed. The CFI or the owner.
   
   
  
• What now happens to all the students who have pre paid for their PPL or CPL do they have any come back to get their money.
   
   
  
• Now that the dust has settled has there been any indication on what happened (facts only)
   
   
  
• If the responsibilty at following the rules falls on the owner do the family of the passenger have any legal grounds to take action against the estate.
   
   
  
• What actions can CASA make if the school shuts as it has.
   
   
  

 

I would apprecite anyones input here as it would be good to see a constructive discussion on this topic instead of the ill mannered and unthoughtfull crap that I have seen elsewhere.

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

Tread carefull BLA82. As this issue is still in play, I guess Ian wouldnt want to be involved in any related legal issues you might get him into

 

 

[BLA82]

HPD,

 

I am not trying to defame or lay blame on anyone. I am just sick of the rubbish being posted elsewhere and I believe some facts will do less harm.

 

If it's unappropriate I have no issue with this thread being removed, I started it with no malice intended.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Saw Barry Hemple flying the Yak 52 at The old Station Fly-in a few years ago. Right at sunset, lots of smoke out the belly and a strobe flashing and aluminating it all. Great piece of flying at a great event. Memorable to say the least. Never met the man but I do remember his flying.

 

 

[BLA82]

He sure was memorable, some of the most vivid memories of flying from when I was growing up envolves him. regardless of recent advents the guy had a huge amount of talent and showmanship.

 

 

[dunlopdangler]

Gee BLA82, I respect your good intentions and hope you don't open a can of worms on this forum, reading the thread on pprune, you will see that I also posted on that particular thread as well and since I joined that forum back in 2002 have only posted less than a dozen times for more than likely the same reasons you refer......now with the points you raise, I agree, certainly Barry did have a history of testing the boundaries and those of the regulators. I flew with him on a number of occassions and found him a very capable pilot and instructor during some proficiency training I needed to do to fulfill obligations to keep my insurance company happy.

 

In the case of the fateful flight of Barry's, the CFI would have nothing legal to answer. The argument continues as to the legal description of the flight (whether it was a private flight <cost sharing> or an adventure flight sanctioned within the commercial aspect of Hemples Aviation as it was not an approved Warbirds Association activity) and this is the reason why CASA advertised for witnesses recently. I have been told that the closure of the school was one taken by Barry's family who understandably were not in a position to continue its operation. The dust has not settled on this very sad situation and may take some time to sort out, so my advice to everyone is to let it lie and see how it all pans out.

 

 

[BLA82]

Dunlop,

 

Thanks for your post, you answered alot of my questions at once. I just hate seeing someones name used in the ridiculous ways it has in that other forum. Yes he was different, yes he pushed the boundries and yes alot of people didn't necesarily agree with his actions (myself included in some ways) but the fact still remains he had alot of excellent flying history and skill and that should be equally remembered. I am in no way defending him or bagging him I just know there is a course that needs to be followed and by the other forums I have seen it would be sad day to see peoples comments ruin any chance of justice running its course. Remember innocent untill proven guilty.

 

Thanks again

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

I will give some opinions to your questions BLA as they seem innocent enough and I respect the motives for you posing them. Equally I believe the words of HPD should also be heeded – this is potentially very volatile ground unless dealt with sanely. Bear in mind that the following is only my personal opinion.

 

 

• Where does the ultimate responsibilty in a flying school fall to make sure that rules are followed. The CFI or the owner.
   
   
  

 

 

A flying school is a business and as in any business the ultimate responsibility will rest with the owner. The CFI certainly has responsibility for ensuring that the school operates correctly but, as an employee, has only the choice of complying with owner wishes or walking if the CFI does not like what is going on.

 

 

• What now happens to all the students who have pre paid for their PPL or CPL do they have any come back to get their money.
   
   
  

 

 

I presume that would depend on the nature of the closure. The family/executors may consider themselves under a moral obligation to make good or the estate could be sued for recovery. If a financial situation is determined where lack of ability or desire to continue means viable trading can no longer proceed then it could be a case of the Receivers or declaration of bankruptcy – and what that entails for persons attempting recovery.

 

 

• Now that the dust has settled has there been any indication on what happened (facts only).
   
   
  

 

 

Due to the high profile of the circumstances I believe that this is an area into which this forum should not tread and that this one must be left to the official investigation.

 

 

• If the responsibilty at following the rules falls on the owner do the family of the passenger have any legal grounds to take action against the estate.
   
   
  

 

 

‘Responsibility’ does not really enter into the situation as the flying school was a business. These days it seems that any business (or estate) can be sued for just about anything someone believes they have a winnable case with!

 

 

• What actions can CASA make if the school shuts as it has.
   
   
  

 

 

CASA is a Regulator and I doubt they would see themselves under any obligation to ensure any form of ‘making good’ while they certainly have a responsibility to form conclusions with regulation compliance and act accordingly – but only in that sphere of activity.

 

 

I will add a further personal footnote that I do feel about very deeply.

 

 

These ‘high profile’ situations can be exceedingly difficult because the individual involved may rightly be deserving of considerable personal admiration for skills etc.

 

 

However, and particularly in aviation, a greater responsibility also has to be embraced and that is when high status is gained then responsibility goes along with the condition! This is primarily in setting an example to the ‘adoring fans’ that may not have them exceeding their own personal limits but rather that while you may ‘cut the mustard’ you can also do this in a responsible manner.

 

 

In my own time I have been close to some horrible fatals with high profile pilots (some of them good friends). The entire situation can be very disturbing and have considerable reverberations – because the vultures soon gather to pick the situation to pieces – often to boost their own inadequate egos, but sometimes they are quite right!

 

 

With Barry I got on with the man well enough. I did have a couple of heavy run-ins with him and I will recount one – purely for perspective.

 

 

A guy (apparently his ‘Chief Pilot’ - not CFI) cut loose at Watts Bridge during a major fly in and persisted with the worst case of illegality and deplorable airmanship that I have witnessed. Barry and I had a most savage interchange over this.

 

 

The situation had been resolved by the following morning per the ultimation that I had given and Barry was instrumental in achieving this. CASA nor anyone else was involved and the situation was sorted as it should be – sensibly by professionals and we never had a repeat performance!

 

 

I repeat that BLA’s questions I do not believe are out of order and are pertinent in the scope of giving general information to the general pilot population. Equally I do believe we should be careful where we tread.

 

 

Aye

 

 

Tony

 

 

[BLA82]

Tony,

 

Thanks for the reply, I now have the answers to which I was asking, thanks also Dunlop. I appreciate everyones imput as this thread has remained the way I intended it. Factual with no Bias. I think this thread just goes to show the difference between us and the other forums in that we can all discuss somthing like adults. Well done all.

 

 

[shags_j]

Nice reply tony. Some really interesting points there.