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Savannah Karl

Savannah S with Viking 130

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Fantastic! Well done Karl and family.I have been having conversations with CAA (the NZ equivalent to the FAA in the USA). I was informed that if either the aircraft kit manufacturer or the engine maker produced the Fire Wall Forward package, the plane can be entered on the New Zealand register without any drama.

 

Savannah doesn't support the Viking, so that is out of the question. So here is my question for you: do the Viking people make a FWF package specifically for the Savannah? ...I was unable to get information from Viking about this (apart from the fact that there is at least one Savannah flying around with the older Viking 110). The Viking dealer in this country legally flies a Viking 130 in his Zenith CH 701 but that is because Viking makes an off-the-shelf FWF package for the 701.

 

Was there a lot of hassle fitting the 130 to the Sav?

Hey Eighty,

Thanks I did a lot of research to make sure about this before i bought the viking. As it turns out the Savannah fire wall is exactly the same as the 701 as far as the engine mount points are concerned.

 

So I bought the 701 FWF kit from Jon at Viking. Everything has bolted up nicely with the "normal" amount of wrenching.

 

I did beef up the engine mount Jon sent me by adding some steel angle to the bottom.

 

Untitled.png.6243b31bc658d23fc8c633cacb51a2ab.png

 

714903032_bottomenginemount.png.e62448229527e59a7ccac5dd4216dff6.png

 

 

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Hey Eighty,Thanks I did a lot of research to make sure about this before i bought the viking. As it turns out the Savannah fire wall is exactly the same as the 701 as far as the engine mount points are concerned.

 

So I bought the 701 FWF kit from Jon at Viking. Everything has bolted up nicely with the "normal" amount of wrenching.

 

I did beef up the engine mount Jon sent me by adding some steel angle to the bottom.

 

[ATTACH]54185[/ATTACH]

I had a hunch that the CH701 could be the same but only for the Savannah VG. But, because the XL (or VGXL) and S models are about 4 inches (100 mm) wider I thought the 701 FWF would not be suitable. It is good to know that the Viking 130 will fit straight into the Savannah S as well.

 

My next question is about the cowling:

 

Can the Viking 130 be enclosed by the ICP cowling without any changes?

 

OR, Will you use the ICP supplied one and modify it??

 

OR do you need a completely new cowling for this engine???

 

 

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I had a hunch that the CH701 could be the same but only for the Savannah VG. But, because the XL (or VGXL) and S models are about 4 inches (100 mm) wider I thought the 701 FWF would not be suitable. It is good to know that the Viking 130 will fit straight into the Savannah S as well.My next question is about the cowling:

 

Can the Viking 130 be enclosed by the ICP cowling without any changes?

 

OR, Will you use the ICP supplied one and modify it??

 

OR do you need a completely new cowling for this engine???

The FWF kit that comes from Viking includes the 701 cowling. The new cowling from ICP will not work. I'm using the 701 cowling but I haven't started that yet. I have layed the top 701 cowling on the installed engine and it looks like it's going to work well. The ICP cowling is wide enough but not tall enough.

 

 

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The FWF kit that comes from Viking includes the 701 cowling. The new cowling from ICP will not work. I'm using the 701 cowling but I haven't started that yet. I have layed the top 701 cowling on the installed engine and it looks like it's going to work well. The ICP cowling is wide enough but not tall enough.

*I will be v-e-r-y interested how well the Viking-produced cowling for the Zenith CH701 will work out on your Savannah S.

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Hi Karl,

 

How is the Savannah + Viking project progressing since you last posted?

 

 

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Hi Mark,

 

I thought I would ask Karl. It's been about four months since Karl has posted and it is summer where Karl is in Ohio ...with long days... and perhaps the Savannah gets lots of attention?

 

If I can be assured that the weight and balance works out, I am still interested in fitting a Viking 130.

 

When you read this, Karl, I would love to hear:

 

1. How the weight and balance worked out.

 

2. The overall weight of the Savannah.

 

3. How well the Viking return fuel sytem works.

 

4. How you went with the cowl: was there a lot of adaption needed?

 

5. How the Savannah/Viking flies (assuming you are at this stage).

 

We look forward to hearing from you!

 

 

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Hi Mark,

I thought I would ask Karl. It's been about four months since Karl has posted and it is summer where Karl is in Ohio ...with long days... and perhaps the Savannah gets lots of attention?

 

If I can be assured that the weight and balance works out, I am still interested in fitting a Viking 130.

 

When you read this, Karl, I would love to hear:

 

1. How the weight and balance worked out.

 

2. The overall weight of the Savannah.

 

3. How well the Viking return fuel sytem works.

 

4. How you went with the cowl: was there a lot of adaption needed?

 

5. How the Savannah/Viking flies (assuming you are at this stage).

 

We look forward to hearing from you!

Hey guys I apologize for not keeping up with this but yes some progress has been made. I'm better at building than typing. The wings have been attached to the fuse and much of the avionics have been installed. I'm planning to install the transponder today or tomorrow. We will be doing a thrust test soon just to see if we can generate the kind of number that Jon has shown on the Viking forum site. I have not completed the cowling yet.

 

We had to move the whole production a few weeks ago to allow for space for assembly. We're at the airport now so taxi and flight testing is hopefully not too far away. What do they say, 90% done only 90% to go:) I'll let you know as soon as I get the weight and balance numbers. Pictures to follow.

 

 

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Fantastic. Thanks for the update, Karl.

 

 

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Okay guys I know it been quite a while for me but I just wanted to get you all updated on progress being made.

 

We did a thrust test today and here are the results.

 

545lbs of thrust with a Viking 130 and a 68” whirlwind spinning at 5700 rpm.  I obviously have to adjust for a bigger bite but man that engine just sings.  That’s a lot of thrust for a 770lb Savannah S.  I know that sounds a little heavy for a Savannah but I’ve gone a little overboard on all the “extra” things I wanted.  Glove box, self designed center pedestal, extended range fuel tanks among other things.  I wasn’t as concerned with the final weight as some.  Im very happy with the number that came in.  I also figured the balance today and with no ballast were right at the forward limit of the cg assuming a 200 lb pilot (me on a good day?.)  I purpose built the airplane to avoid ballast.  Don’t let anyone tell you the Viking is too heavy.  Great day today. 

 

BAE7250F-94D3-401A-9A8D-06B703430817.thumb.jpeg.9ad477a22d9d1030889abbf4b5f78dcb.jpeg

 

 

 

338DA743-58DE-4C91-B6F6-312DFE4A6B2D.MOV

 

BAE7250F-94D3-401A-9A8D-06B703430817.thumb.jpeg.7fad66c2a94ca4ac3669d71575861389.jpeg

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Hi Karl

 

Be carefull with a nose heavy (right at the forward limit)...the nosewheel on a Sav is a weak point and if the nosewheel gets on the ground quickly after landing it can be ripped off easily with a partial braking issue. My Sav although a XL was a bit noseheavy so I shifted my battery to the back of the aircraft and now mine the CG is slightly to the rear of the middle range and it flys like chalk and cheese now. Far better with the CG back and much easier to keep the noseleg off the ground almost as long as I like. You need to consider moving your battery back to compensate

 

 

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Okay guys I know it been quite a while for me but I just wanted to get you all updated on progress being made.

 

We did a thrust test today and here are the results.

 

545lbs of thrust with a Viking 130 and a 68” whirlwind spinning at 5700 rpm.  I obviously have to adjust for a bigger bite but man that engine just sings.  That’s a lot of thrust for a 770lb Savannah S.  I know that sounds a little heavy for a Savannah but I’ve gone a little overboard on all the “extra” things I wanted.  Glove box, self designed center pedestal, extended range fuel tanks among other things.  I wasn’t as concerned with the final weight as some.  Im very happy with the number that came in.  I also figured the balance today and with no ballast were right at the forward limit of the cg assuming a 200 lb pilot (me on a good day?.)  I purpose built the airplane to avoid ballast.  Don’t let anyone tell you the Viking is too heavy.  Great day today. 

 

BAE7250F-94D3-401A-9A8D-06B703430817.thumb.jpeg.9ad477a22d9d1030889abbf4b5f78dcb.jpeg

 

[ATTACH]38796[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

Hi Karl,

 

Up till now, every time I mention a Viking 130 I receive predictions of gloom from others. One person had "calculated" that a Savannah with a Viking 130 would need a minimum of 13 kilograms (or 28.5 pounds) of lead to be placed in the tail to compensate for the heavier-than-Rotax-912-engine. Another person's opinion was that the 28.5 lb of lead would not even be enough.

 

It is good to hear that it is within the weight and balance range. However, I think Mark has given very wise advice about shifting the battery in the back. The extra cable length and shift of the weight of the battery will help keep weight off the nose wheel.

 

You said that your plane weighs 770 lb (or 350 kg). Many Savannahs end up around 300-318 kg (660-700 lb). Is the extra weight just from the Viking 130 or are there other factors that got your plane up to 770 kg?

 

 

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The best way to see if your balance is ok is lower the tail of the aircraft to the ground...it should stay there with only about 1 or 2 pounds of effort required to lift it off the ground. If you can not get the tail to just barely sit on the ground you will be very nose heavy and the plane will fly accordingly

 

 

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Here is a video from today, first taxi.  Sorry about the video and audio timing guys but my phone does not make a very good camera.  Thanks for the heads up about the nose gear and CG. (Chalk and Cheese) :thumb up:  

 

 

 

First_Taxi.mp4

 

 

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Some of the extra weight is of course that engine and radiator but I have added a lot of what I call lard.  Extra fuel tanks, center pedestal, glove box, carpet everywhere, 2.5 gal. header tank.  I think the engine by itself is about 45lbs heavier that the 912.

 

 

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When you did empty weight and balance, what was the weight on the nose wheel??

 

 

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Okay guys I know it been quite a while for me but I just wanted to get you all updated on progress being made.

 

We did a thrust test today and here are the results.

 

545lbs of thrust with a Viking 130 and a 68” whirlwind spinning at 5700 rpm.  I obviously have to adjust for a bigger bite but man that engine just sings.  That’s a lot of thrust for a 770lb Savannah S.  I know that sounds a little heavy for a Savannah but I’ve gone a little overboard on all the “extra” things I wanted.  Glove box, self designed center pedestal, extended range fuel tanks among other things.  I wasn’t as concerned with the final weight as some.  Im very happy with the number that came in.  I also figured the balance today and with no ballast were right at the forward limit of the cg assuming a 200 lb pilot (me on a good day?.)  I purpose built the airplane to avoid ballast.  Don’t let anyone tell you the Viking is too heavy.  Great day today. 

 

BAE7250F-94D3-401A-9A8D-06B703430817.thumb.jpeg.9ad477a22d9d1030889abbf4b5f78dcb.jpeg

 

[ATTACH]38796[/ATTACH]

 

 Hi Karl,

 

This is a screen shot from the video. What sort of cowl are you using?

 

861060579_Viking130onaSavannah.JPG.630a45a000667a3648f172b7e3ea8cf5.JPG

 

 

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are these Viking engines really putting out 130hp? that's a 30% increase over a 912ULS which is a massive increase in a light plane. I've never seen Jan or any owners quote performance figures to verify it.

 

 

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