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Phil Perry

Another IMC terror story. . .

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Being a veteran pilot ( this means: Old, having Some experience, and having a bad name ) I often get asked if I will accompany other flyers on jaunts. I LOVE free flying and being a recipient of a state pension as my main income. . . this is why I rarely refuse such an offer.) I also call this job 'Semi Qualified Ballast' . . .I have been a flying enthuaist since 1957, when my hands and feet first made contact with rudder and stick in 1957 and it has been my premium interest ever since.

 

Matey,. . .we will call him FRED. . bought an Ikarus C-42 aircraft, a rather nice looking 3 axis aircraft with fabric covered wings, tail and control surfaces, but GRP fuselage. Made in Germany. Power unit is a Rotax 912S / 100 HP engine. He had filled the panel with delightful instrumentation, and a Pilot Aware Nav system with coupled Mode 'S' transponder and TCAS. Basically, a plastic Boeing 737.

 

He learned to fly on an intensive course in South Africa, over six weeks in the beautiful sunny weather for which Southern Africa is well known. . . .But his instructors obviously never drummed into him the dangers of flying IMC He then had a few hours of conversion to the C-42, as he'd had all his training in PA28s. . . .

 

SO. . . to the tale. . . . . We departed Old Sarum Airfield, bound for Barton, near Manchester on a lovely Saturday morning with a decent forecast. . . . .lovely condx, until we were abeam the Malvern HIlls. . .then we had layered cloud at various heights. . .Fred changed altitude regularly, and had decided to fly the trip Radio 'Blind' without any assistance or notification to London Information. . .which was quite legal,. . BUT. . .if someone is offering you a deconfliction service free of charge,,. . .then why not tell them what you are doing what route and height at which you are cruising and where you're going . . .? ? ? Dunno,. .. I was flying with a fully qualified G.A. PPL. ( Note* I had the feeling,. . from some of his comments that he had not passed the RT test . . his departure call from Old Sarum was wank. . .

 

Around 12 NM North East of the Northern edge of the Malvern hills cruising at 4,400 feet, he flew directly into a solid deck of SC cloud, without even flinching. I flinched. I said WHAT THE F**K ARE YOU DOING FRED ? ? His response ?. . .No probs mate, no higher ground around here, . . .nothing to hit. ( ? )

 

I realised at that moment that I was sitting in an aeroplane with a total looney tune. . . He lost directional control within less than 2 minutes, I could see the Alt winding down and we were in a gentle spiral to the left at around 5ooFPM And he was doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT THIS. . .. The AH was indicating the turn as well, but it was over on his side of the panel and was not easy to interpret from my side. I said 'I have control' and looked daggers into his face. There was a lot more bad speech from me that I will not repeat here. . .but I made it clear that I did not wish to get killed by some twat with the ink still wet on his licence. He was very argumentative the whole time. . . Then I noticed the ICE on the wing strut and this shut him up. . . . . .jesus christ I thought,. . .This is a bloody nightmare. . . ANYWAY. . .we landed at Long Marston and I departed and found my own way back home. Matey was mumbling about reporting me to the CAA so I got my statement in first by telephone to Flight Safety section. This is ongoing. Me having no revalidated licence isn't going to go down very well, but what the Fook. . . we shall see what happens. I let him know that the moment he told the authorities that he'd deliberately flown into IMC, without the appropriate licence, in a NON IMC rated aeroplane that he'd be in the crap immediately,. . so I hope that sunk in. FREE FLYING ?. . .SOMETIMES IT HAS WHISKERS ON IT. . . . .

 

 

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Good move Phil. If you'd played the polite english gent, you'd probably both be dead now.

 

 

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Good move Phil. If you'd played the polite english gent, you'd probably both be dead now.

Thanks matey. . . .I will NEVER allow someone to kill me without arguing about it. . . . .I dunno how this is going to pan out, I know the Barstard will tell lies to the CAA,. . . .If he says that a 'Non-Pilot' took over control of the aircraft ,. . .then I'm going to be involved in a court case. . . . .He had a licence. . .I didn't. . .

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Glad it ended well. It’s a lovely flight from old Sarum up to Barton along the Malverns ... in good weather.

 

And like you I would have jumped at the chance for some free airtime along that flight ... but you’re not the first nor, unfortunately, the last to find a pilot without the sense to recognise they are going beyond their skills and experience.

 

I’ve lost several friends and acquaintances over the years to similar cases of what you look at from the outside with shaking head and comments of WTF!

 

Glad you’re still here to tell the tale and hope he/she learns from it.

 

 

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He had a licence. . .I didn't. . .

He flew you into IMC. You have experience. It'd be a sad day for justice if the fact of your non-current-licence status had more weight than those factors.

 

 

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Just because you don't have a current licence, doesn't mean that you don't have the prior experience to act in what was an emergency situation. Throw your logbook at them. Also, you have the right to prevent the further commission of an offence, or what you "reasonably" thought to be an offence (unqualified flight into IMC). Finally, you have the right of self-defence.

 

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I'm not an Ambulance chaser here or in the old country,

 

But to me,

 

What you did was a clear cut case of "Self defence"

 

And that is a legal defence for any action.

 

Regardless of the fact that it was also the right thing to do.

 

Good call.

 

Darren

 

 

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Thank you all for your kind words gents. My legal eagle tells me that unless an official complaint is lodged with the CAA then this will go away quietly. It has been nine weeks and noone has contacted me yet. FIngers crossed. I am still uneasy about this affair. I have never experienced anything like that before.

 

 

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Guest Guest

Just as well you took the action you did! There shouldn't be a legal case to answer here as there is no proof that you even touched the controls. No proof that you even went IMC, your words against his. For a legal case to be strong it needs to have proof, end of story.

 

 

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Just as well you took the action you did! There shouldn't be a legal case to answer here as there is no proof that you even touched the controls. No proof that you even went IMC, your words against his. For a legal case to be strong it needs to have proof, end of story.

And if it does go further, stand up and say, "Yes. I took control of the plane. Yes. I recovered from loss of orientation in IMC conditions. Yes. I think the dickhead should have his licence suspended and only reinstated after completing a flight safety course."

 

 

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And if it does go further, stand up and say, "Yes. I took control of the plane. Yes. I recovered from loss of orientation in IMC conditions. Yes. I think the dickhead should have his licence suspended and only reinstated after completing a flight safety course."

That's still not irrefutable proof, means nothing. Accusations are just that, we must have proof is what a legal challenge will demand.

 

 

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Thanks matey. . . .I will NEVER allow someone to kill me without arguing about it. . . . .I dunno how this is going to pan out, I know the Barstard will tell lies to the CAA,. . . .If he says that a 'Non-Pilot' took over control of the aircraft ,. . .then I'm going to be involved in a court case. . . . .He had a licence. . .I didn't. . .

Phil you are here telling us your tale. To be blunt mate F**K what the CAA think, say or do.

 

The other possibility does not bear thinking about.

 

PS:- Being a Quasi Aussie you should know that "Bastard" only has one "R".001_smile.gif.bb705e7282f2f19cc33cc5f00844ef33.gif

 

 

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PS:- Being a Quasi Aussie you should know that "Bastard" only has one "R".001_smile.gif.bb705e7282f2f19cc33cc5f00844ef33.gif

I thought it was spelled the same in Blighty... they invented the word!

 

 

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So now I am confused.

 

Obviously the flight into IMC must take second place to the correct spelling of Bastard/Barstard

 

Google and Wikipedia agree with me.

 

bas|tard

 

[ˈbɑːstəd, ˈbastəd]

 

NOUN

 

  1. informal
    an unpleasant or despicable person.
    "he lied to me, the bastard!"
    synonyms: scoundrel · villain · rogue · rascal · brute · animal · weasel · snake ·
    [more]
     
     
  2. archaic
    derogatory
    a person born of parents not married to each other.
    synonyms: illegitimate child · child born out of wedlock · love child · by-blow ·
    [more]
     
     

 

 

ADJECTIVE

 

  1. (of a thing) no longer in its pure or original form; debased.
    "a bastard Darwinism"
    synonyms: hybrid · alloyed · adulterated · impure · inferior
     
     
  2. archaic
    derogatory
    born of parents not married to each other; illegitimate.
    "a bastard child"
    synonyms: illegitimate · born out of wedlock · natural
     
     

 

 

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So now I am confused.Obviously the flight into IMC must take second place to the correct spelling of Bastard/Barstard

Google and Wikipedia agree with me.

 

bas|tard

 

[ˈbɑːstəd, ˈbastəd]

 

NOUN

 

  1. informal
    an unpleasant or despicable person.
    "he lied to me, the bastard!"
    synonyms: scoundrel · villain · rogue · rascal · brute · animal · weasel · snake ·
    [more]
     
     
  2. archaic
    derogatory
    a person born of parents not married to each other.
    synonyms: illegitimate child · child born out of wedlock · love child · by-blow ·
    [more]
     
     

 

 

ADJECTIVE

 

  1. (of a thing) no longer in its pure or original form; debased.
    "a bastard Darwinism"
    synonyms: hybrid · alloyed · adulterated · impure · inferior
     
     
  2. archaic
    derogatory
    born of parents not married to each other; illegitimate.
    "a bastard child"
    synonyms: illegitimate · born out of wedlock · natural
     
     

I'm agreeing with you about the spelling, there's only 1 "r".

I think perhaps Mr Perry was afraid of the expletive police deleting the word if it was spelled correctly.

 

 

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Thanks matey. . . .I will NEVER allow someone to kill me without arguing about it. . . . .I dunno how this is going to pan out, I know the Barstard will tell lies to the CAA,. . . .If he says that a 'Non-Pilot' took over control of the aircraft ,. . .then I'm going to be involved in a court case. . . . .He had a licence. . .I didn't. . .

Hi Phil. At interview time. Request that the interview is suspended until they return from a flight with him in similar conditions. They will, I expect be in a better position to plan and structure their questions about your involvement in the flight of question. You should look forward to an airman-ship well done award or better. I expect the only person disadvantaged by your efforts would be the local undertaker. Your welcome to fly with me any time. Cheers

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Just because you don't have a current licence, doesn't mean that you don't have the prior experience to act in what was an emergency situation. Throw your logbook at them. Also, you have the right to prevent the further commission of an offence, or what you "reasonably" thought to be an offence (unqualified flight into IMC). Finally, you have the right of self-defence.[ATTACH=full]54510[/ATTACH]

I hope you guys are on the jury ! This chap was only the second Sed Effriken I'd ever flown with. . . We used to have one based at our airfield and he was a similarly arrogant personality.

 

I am glad that the CAA has a telephone number where reports can be made without fear of sanction ie, airprox and other stuff, so nothing will come directly from my call to them. . My only concern was the ratbag himself causing trouble, on the premise that Rich Ratbags can afford it. .

 

 

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As you know Phil, the UK microlight fora are full of 'discussions' about flying into IMC and how pilots with 'hours' and 'experience' should be OK. But being like you someone who has had the training, albeit just an IMC rating back in my 'youth', my reply is that you need three things if you are to have any chance of surviving even a modest departure from VMC into IMC - a stable instrument platform, an instrument equipped aircraft (approved, not your usual Chinese kit) and proper training. And to that you could also add 'currency'.

 

Even a high-end microlight like the C42 piloted by your average week-end pilot provide none of these, so what chance will that pilot stand in the real world unless he gets out of that situation pronto? And as for taking a decision to knowingly enter IMC, that's utter madness in my book.

 

 

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Seen 'em all, read 'em all, read the accident reports / Horror stories both in the UK and Australia. It keeps on happening though doesn't it ?. . . unless these people who take the risks actually get a really serious fright, and survive it,. . AND LEARN from it. . . It will still be featuring as a major killer in the crash comic reports worldwide. I fully concur with all your other comments on the subject Mon Ami.

 

 

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So now I am confused.Obviously the flight into IMC must take second place to the correct spelling of Bastard/Barstard

Google and Wikipedia agree with me.

 

bas|tard

 

[ˈbɑːstəd, ˈbastəd]

 

NOUN

 

  1. informal
    an unpleasant or despicable person.
    "he lied to me, the bastard!"
    synonyms: scoundrel · villain · rogue · rascal · brute · animal · weasel · snake ·
    [more]
     
     
  2. archaic
    derogatory
    a person born of parents not married to each other.
    synonyms: illegitimate child · child born out of wedlock · love child · by-blow ·
    [more]
     
     

 

 

ADJECTIVE

 

  1. (of a thing) no longer in its pure or original form; debased.
    "a bastard Darwinism"
    synonyms: hybrid · alloyed · adulterated · impure · inferior
     
     
  2. archaic
    derogatory
    born of parents not married to each other; illegitimate.
    "a bastard child"
    synonyms: illegitimate · born out of wedlock · natural
     
     

Regarding the linguistic qualification of the "B" word, here is the local context

 

 

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