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Parkway

Affirm? Or Roger...

Question

I’m a fairly new pilot, and seem to be struggling with the use of “affirm” and “roger”. I understand the meaning of both, and the context in which they SHOULD be used, but I seem to continually default to saying affirm when I really should say roger. Has anyone else had this problem? 

 

I guess it will eventually work itself out, but I thought someone might have a way they went about drumming it into their head haha.

 

On my last flight I did it so many times it started to become comical! Here’s a short video of it

 

 

 

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Oh Turbo,. . .I have looked at it Longingly on Goggly Earth. . so sad. . .that place contains some wonderful memories for me.   I doubt of CASA would allow me a licence, since DCA said at the time, that my vision was so bad ?) that I should not be allowed to engage in international navigation, as I had no useful sight in my left eye. . .odd that they allowed me a GA PPL,. with which I flew to PNG and Indonesia. . . and that I got a commercial in the UK later, and flew cargo, ferry and Air taxi for money for quite long time. .. but that aside, I'm getting on a bit now mate, 68.5. . .so If I ever get the chance to visit again, I'd need some young buck in a Stol to do that for me. . .  a Dornier 17 would be nice. . . ( ! )   They used to use one of those from Berwick for towing banners, with such messages as. . 'BUY A FROZEN MARS BAR'  etc. . .lovely machine ( 235 HP I think ) but they wouldn't let me near the thing after I bent Keith Hatfields DH82A  ( VH-TIG )! Although it wasn't really damaged, I just nosed it into a very shalllow ditch in a crosswind whilst taxying . . .!  Hit the switches and stopped the prop first though. . .

 

JESUS! Not the TIG!

 

 

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JESUS! Not the TIG!

 

Sadly Yes. . . No excuses offered, . . I learned to fly in a Tigger, unofficially, whilst being far too young to solo, But I had at least 50 hours stick time on the type. Followed by a further 3 hours with David Squirrel, after I got licenced on C-150 and PA 28s.  

 

This was caused by me being too impatient to wait for a wingman to taxy back from the runway.  I lost directional control of the machine ( at a very low speed ) and it swung right and headed for the ditch. 

 

Pilot error X 100.  Bloody stupid overconfident youth.  Keith said that if I ever did something like that again,. . .he would leave me out of his will. . . Lovely chap.

 

 

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Was that David Squirrel at one time a crop duster? I knew a David Squirrel (RIP) who ran a business from his home at Wilton, near Camden. He serviced and repaired magnetos and such.

 

 

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Was that David Squirrel at one time a crop duster? I knew a David Squirrel (RIP) who ran a business from his home at Wilton, near Camden. He serviced and repaired magnetos and such.

 

 

 

David was indeed a crop duster,. . he was actively doing that in between instructing at Casey Airfield. . . the last I heard form sources on this site was that he owned a taxi business somewhere, but that report must be at least six years old. . .That is very sad.  I knew David And Wendy quite well, and he taught me All manner of naughty things, that pilots really shouldn't do. . ., finally allowing me to fly his Pawnee. . .with a 'Verbal' checkride !  It was thanks to him that I won a job as a Glider Tug pilot in the UK, as no one else at the gliding club had any Pawnee experience. . . 

 

A truly NICE  'Character' of Australian aviation.   R.I.P. David.

 

 

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 Why do you say IF AT ALL. ?   The change appears to have been around 2006 in AUSTRALIA.. and I worked as a full time airline pilot for 25 years. and always used Affirmative  Never  Yes, Roger,,  Over or Out.  Plenty of Australian pilots operate internationally. Nev

 

I think (from a scratchy memory) The change from "affirmative" to "affirm" happened in the early 1980's in Australia.

 

I was working as a flying instructor at the time and it was understood that the change was made to avoid confusion with the word "negative" when receiving difficult to understand radio transmissions.

 

I think it was an ICAO change at the time.

 

 

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That is why I don't use VOX operated headsets, which clip the first part of a transmission. . .it's also embarrassing when / If you want to emit a quiet expletive tp yourself, with regard to what someone has just done. . .

 

"When was the last time someone asked you if you would like a drink and you answered, "Affirm"?"

 

Only at an airfield with a Club Bar ? ? ?

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Posted (edited)

Clarity of Comms should be foremost in Any radio exchange.

 

In the UK, Affirm is always spoken as AYFIRM With emphasis on the AY bit. . .

Edited by Guest

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I know this is a thread revival but...

 

Yes, "Affirm" is a transient verb or some such... but we take it to mean "Yes"

 

Along the same vein, "Quebec" is a place, and "Romeo" is a Proper Noun, as well as an erstwhile character in a Shakespearean play, but we all know the "code", so I'm not sure where the confusion and the ensueing arguments are arising from.

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I know this is a thread revival but...

 

Yes, "Affirm" is a transient verb or some such... but we take it to mean "Yes"

 

Along the same vein, "Quebec" is a place, and "Romeo" is a Proper Noun, as well as an erstwhile character in a Shakespearean play, but we all know the "code", so I'm not sure where the confusion and the ensueing arguments are arising from.

They’re arising from the transition from “AFFIRMATIVE” to what appears to be the ICAO standard “AFFIRM” which now applies.

In Australia there is a near hopeless standard of public service mentality in the people who make these changes and fail dismally to advise them openly, and regularly update the training, and ensure that Instructors, who always seem to be very quiet on occasions like this also get the message through. Our safety levels have dropped as a result of authorities hiding behind the “see and be seen” policy, we know who is responsible and we know who to come after when accidents inevitably occur.

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Posted (edited)

Oh Turbo,. . .I have looked at it Longingly on Goggly Earth. . so sad. . .that place contains some wonderful memories for me. I doubt of CASA would allow me a licence, since DCA said at the time, that my vision was so bad ?) that I should not be allowed to engage in international navigation, as I had no useful sight in my left eye. . .odd that they allowed me a GA PPL,. with which I flew to PNG and Indonesia. . . and that I got a commercial in the UK later, and flew cargo, ferry and Air taxi for money for quite long time. .. but that aside, I'm getting on a bit now mate, 68.5. . .so If I ever get the chance to visit again, I'd need some young buck in a Stol to do that for me. . . a Dornier 17 would be nice. . . ( ! ) They used to use one of those from Berwick for towing banners, with such messages as. . 'BUY A FROZEN MARS BAR' etc. . .lovely machine ( 235 HP I think ) but they wouldn't let me near the thing after I bent Keith Hatfields DH82A ( VH-TIG )! Although it wasn't really damaged, I just nosed it into a very shalllow ditch in a crosswind whilst taxying . . .! Hit the switches and stopped the prop first though. . .

 

Another spot where there is still ample runway (for an Auster) but the powers that be might frown if used is at Laverton, Vic

adjacent the museum.

 

And your comments about eyesight reminded me of my “test” for my Master V with Captain Mesquite at the Marine Board.

 

I have poor vision in my right eye but 20:20 in my left. I forgot my glasses but persevered....

 

Red....yes

Green...yes

White ...yes

 

Read the alphabet...left eye good

Right eye...

Capn: “This is no good...you fail...you are blind in one eye!

Me: “No room in your navy for Nelson then!

Capn: Who is this Nelson?

 

I got my ticket.

 

And what’s this about 68.5 you whippersnapper? I’m 75.5 and I’ve passed my latest Aeromedical, too.

Edited by Guest
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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the upbeat answer Kaz. . I just passed my NPPL aeromed too. . . .reason being, I can't now afford to fly GA aircraft on my pension ! But I can fly anything up to 2,000 KGs AUW on my NPPL/SEP rating which includes a lot of G.A. appliances too ?. . . oh well,. . .I'll only fly 182s / 172s / Pa 28 R200s etc if I have some Victims,. . er, I mean 'Friends' sharing the cost ! I assume this means that I can fly a Twin again, if I only start One engine. . . . . Great ! I can't have back my Pax Oxygen management ticket for flight above 10.000 feet, but what the hell,. . I just won't go there, nor try to fly over the Swiss Alps. . .

 

Normally fresh NPPL holders cannot fly aircraft with complex systems. . ie Constant Speed props and Dangly Dunlops, but they've told me that since I have multiple thousand hours doing so, that I will be granted grandfather rights on those Simple accessories, and that I can continue to fly friends to the Isle of Man TT races without the prop left in full fine and the gear extended,. . which is Handy. . . Innit ? :cheezy grin:

Edited by Phil Perry
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Posted (edited)

Which is why I was taught to say "Traffic" before the location...

 

In the UK, we always put the station called as the first word of the transmission BUT. . .At OTHERTON . . ie, my base,. . we have people clipping TX when they are calling 'Hatherton', and 'Weston, and the worst one, 'Overton. . . which Does elicit a reply from Us,. . . not surprisingly. . . I have been asking our lads and lassies to use the Place name at the beginning AND the end of the transmission for clarity,. . some do, after I have sent them Scott Hendry's videos of flying around in the NT etc. . . I shall keep brainwashing them on Bookface etc, until they adopt safer radio procedures. . .I DO have some allies for this on local Aviation social media, so it's Working.albeit SLOWLY ! .

 

( BTW I DID ASK SCOTT'S PERMISSION TO PROMULGATE HIS VIDEOS AND USE THEM FOR INSTRUCTIONAL PURPOSES . . ! )

Edited by Phil Perry
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What about the difference of "point5.decimal5" in the radio call.

(been ears-dropping with the steam radio lately).

spacesailor

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Probably nothing. Decimal Day see mal. was the original correct way. VHF 122.1 is one twenty two, one or one two two one. with the 1/2 extra digit I think I would use the "Point" one five. (two digits). On HF you would go to six megs. or 3 megs which was short for a four digit frequency. in each instance .Nev

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Actually, the use of words that are not used in common conversations is an example of poor communication. When was the last time someone asked you if you would like a drink and you answered, "Affirm"?

 

No so. The communication is standardised and the words used in standard conversation varies with time and place. The words cant be the same as in common conversations.

 

Affirm and negative are better than yes and no because having more syllables makes them sound more different. Like yankee and November sound more different than y and n or yes and no.

 

Expedite has a technical meaning that distinguishes it from “whenever”, “soon” and “NOW!!!”

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Roger that.

 

 

I think you meant "Affirm". :amazon:

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