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jackc

Radio Comms For Student Pilots?

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Is anyone aware of the book SAY AGAIN, PLEASE by Bob Gardner? Is it applicable for Australia, or only the FAA?

Need to know if I can use it here for my Radio Comms study please.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

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Thanks :-) found it on the Clearprop WEB Page, was hoping it was relevant here in Australia.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

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Posted (edited)

I reckon more than half of pilots flying have very poor radio skills. CASA has produced booklets and have been running seminars around the country on radio use in Ctaf & in the vicinity of uncontrolled aerodromes, I'd say in response to complaints from pilots. We hosted one at our Aero Club & I was surprised at the lack of knowledge of radio procedures by some of the participants.

 

So many do not get it right, so many say far too much and too much irrelevant stuff. Others say everything so quickly you miss what they say and some run all the words together so it sounds like some enormouslylongstorytheyaretellingwithoutyoubeingabletounderstandanything. Then there are the foreign students who are virtually impossible to understand despite them having to pass some sort of English language test.

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I am training at Coffs Harbour and we often have students from a Port Macquarie school fly into our area, The school at Port Macquarie has a contract to train Chinese students for their commercial licence. Coffs Tower seems to understand them but I don’t. Right now I am not doing well on the radio as sometimes the tower is a bit quick for me. Have to get my act together as I have to sit my radio exam soon.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

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I am training at Coffs Harbour and we often have students from a Port Macquarie school fly into our area, The school at Port Macquarie has a contract to train Chinese students for their commercial licence. Coffs Tower seems to understand them but I don’t. Right now I am not doing well on the radio as sometimes the tower is a bit quick for me. Have to get my act together as I have to sit my radio exam soon.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

Jack, in a CTA you should know what the tower and other aircraft will say and when they will say it. The tower will also correct any deviants. When you get out in the wide wild world of the CTAF things can get interesting.

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I guess the best part is I am training in controlled airspace, being chucked in the deep end is probably going to be beneficial in the long run. I do do listen to radio where I live as I have a hand held Aviation radio. My aim is to be very proficient on radio, it’s important.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

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I am training at Coffs Harbour and we often have students from a Port Macquarie school fly into our area, The school at Port Macquarie has a contract to train Chinese students for their commercial licence. Coffs Tower seems to understand them but I don’t. Right now I am not doing well on the radio as sometimes the tower is a bit quick for me. Have to get my act together as I have to sit my radio exam soon.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

Phone them and see if they'll let you come up and observe for a while - maybe suggest 30 mins/hr and see what they say (off peak). I did two sessions like that, one at Moorabbin Tower and one at Tullamarine. It really helps you orientate yourself on what they are looking for, how they process what's being said and what frustrates them. They will also give you the best lead on reference material. It's no use studying FAA stuff which doesn't apply in Australia and then have to unlearn it.

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TP, thanks for that hint will follow up on that and also the CASA publications as well. Did not know they ran seminars, will search for them, too. Guess I can't have too much information :-)

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

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This is usually not a big problem as you can predict what you hear. Very limited dictionary and options help to understand. Even me, with not native English, can do it. Some ATC in Bankstown have terrible accents and it still works.

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I am training at Coffs Harbour and we often have students from a Port Macquarie school fly into our area, The school at Port Macquarie has a contract to train Chinese students for their commercial licence. Coffs Tower seems to understand them but I don’t. Right now I am not doing well on the radio as sometimes the tower is a bit quick for me. Have to get my act together as I have to sit my radio exam soon.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

Jack,

I have heard other pilots make the same comment as you, that ATC seems to understand them but the other pilots don't. We get the same students from Port Macquarie & Kempsey in CTAF at Grafton & South Grafton. The other confusing thing here is that the runways 08/26 YSGR and 18/36 YGFN get mixed up and often due to the difficulty in understanding what is being said we don't know which aerodrome they are referring to.

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I am training at Coffs Harbour and we often have students from a Port Macquarie school fly into our area, The school at Port Macquarie has a contract to train Chinese students for their commercial licence. Coffs Tower seems to understand them but I don’t. Right now I am not doing well on the radio as sometimes the tower is a bit quick for me. Have to get my act together as I have to sit my radio exam soon.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

Jack just ask twr to repeat, slowly - I told one major atc guy that was way to fast (you get some like that) I had Alzheimer's - say all again! - it took him 20 seconds to stop laughing and repeat. They don't have a problem when asked.

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I guess the best part is I am training in controlled airspace, being chucked in the deep end is probably going to be beneficial in the long run. I do do listen to radio where I live as I have a hand held Aviation radio. My aim is to be very proficient on radio, it’s important.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

 

There is an iPhone app called LiveATC. I use it to listen to Archerfield. It has helped a lot. Looking at a map of the aerodrome and the approach points and picturing them in my mind as the pilots speak helps a lot, but is demanding. Knowing what they are going to say helps me understand what they said. Also listening to music at the same time as the app helps me get used to directing my attention to the radio when it starts. I suspect that if I talk to the tower slowly, they will speak slowly back to me. Disclaimer: have about 10 hrs recently. Archerfield has people say "dual" or "solo" if they are training, when they request to taxi. I suspect that that cues them to speak slowly or extra slowly.

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Jack just ask twr to repeat, slowly - I told one major atc guy that was way to fast (you get some like that) I had Alzheimer's - say all again! - it took him 20 seconds to stop laughing and repeat. They don't have a problem when asked.

 

True that, they seem to be really polite and helpful. One was a *tiny bit* bit testy when people apparently did not read the NOTAM and kept requesting a departure that apparently was not available that day.

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There is an iPhone app called LiveATC. I use it to listen to Archerfield. It has helped a lot. Looking at a map of the aerodrome and the approach points and picturing them in my mind as the pilots speak helps a lot, but is demanding. Knowing what they are going to say helps me understand what they said. Also listening to music at the same time as the app helps me get used to directing my attention to the radio when it starts. I suspect that if I talk to the tower slowly, they will speak slowly back to me. Disclaimer: have about 10 hrs recently. Archerfield has people say "dual" or "solo" if they are training, when they request to taxi. I suspect that that cues them to speak slowly or extra slowly.

They and the instructors know each other intimately, so an inflection in the Instructor's voice may give a hint of a student who's a bit of a handful. I've also been in the tower when the controller was watching a solo student through binoculars all the way round his circuit. This one was being frustrating, so he likely was going to phone his instructor afterwards and go over the circuits with him so the instructor could fix up his weaknesses. We thought we got away with a lot, but we didn't.

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Thanks everyone for all the good clues. I don’t really need that book now!

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

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I've flown in India,. .. No problem with comms,. . they speak english better than we do,. . Pakistan the same. .South Africa, different accents but no problems with comms. . .

In Europe,. . EVERY controller speaks perfect English ( Except in France on Wednesdays ) I know NO Chinese at all. And have never flown there either,. . You'd need to ask our resident Chinese Aussie resident Mark, . . .who runs an aircraft engine factory in Chengdu about that aspect of flying in China. . .. . .

 

Good luck with your radio practice anyhow mate. . .

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Thanks Phil, I have set up my radio in the car to monitor the local tower YBRK and since I live 30km from it I fitted a mag base antenna mount and tuned a 1/4 wave SS whip to half way between the tower freq, ATIS and the VOR freq.

Receiving everything very well. Have locked out PTT function in the radio menu, so I am receive only.

Been interesting listening so far and picking up terminology used etc. The live ATC app is working well on my iPad as well.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

 

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Jack Are you flying out of Rocky, or some other strip. I get into Emu Park and Old Station, but my base is South of Gladstone.

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Yenn, I live 30km out of Rocky but am doing my training at Coffs Harbour as the flying school there has the aircraft with the specs that I want to learn in. Looking to buy one similarly specced when/if I get my licence.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

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Nev, it’s a 75 series Landcruiser :-) But, IF you are looking for a Pintara, I have one up at my property, with a blown auto!

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

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I had a good one and sold it to a friend for his daughter's use and she totalled it in a few days. Easy car to work on (RWD 5 speed man.) Copper said she would have been killed in anything else. Finally admitted she was going a "BIT quick". Nev

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When I was 'Pulled' for speeding in my Renault 16TS in Brisbane ( Xmas 1982 ) the young cop said to me "Goin' a bit 'Ard there weren'tcha Driver ?"

 

I was bang out of order so I didn't argue. I was a 'few' kph over on a lovely stretch of highway near to Beenleigh. . . the cop gave me a bollocking but Didn't write a ticket.

Maybe because I'd got Wifey holding our new infant in the rear seat ?. . I dunno. . . . coulda been my natural charm I guess. . .

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Phil, I have set up my radio in the car to monitor the local tower YBRK and since I live 30km from it I fitted a mag base antenna mount and tuned a 1/4 wave SS whip to half way between the tower freq, ATIS and the VOR freq.

Receiving everything very well. Have locked out PTT function in the radio menu, so I am receive only.

Been interesting listening so far and picking up terminology used etc. The live ATC app is working well on my iPad as well.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

 

[ATTACH=full]43737[/ATTACH]

 

Nice idea to put the radio in the car Jack,. .. but FFS, don't go changing channels while you're driving,. . as we don't need a 'Young Pilot trainee hits Back of truck while changing radio frequencies' report.. . . .! ! ! ! ! In the UK, that would be charged as using a Mobile Phone And you'd get a £200 fine and Six demerit points on your license IF you survived hitting the truck. . .( ! )

 

BW, I use a 5/8ths wave base loaded whip antenna for airband monitoring, as it gives a much greater range for airband VHF comms. Mag bse lso,. . .I only use UHF to listen to the Yanks, ad their radio procedure is Pants, . . ie, heard near Lakenheath USAF base in UK. . . "Err,. . BUGEYE NINER TWO,. .. THIS IS BUGEYE FOUR THREE . .I GOT YOUR SIX BUDDY". . . .hmmmm Most professional. . . .

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