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BirdDog

Ignoring the circuit

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So.... Here's a question...

 

How many of us out there use the circuit correctly.  As in, when you arrive at an AD, you go through the motions of joining the circuit properly?

 

I ask because I live near an AD where lots  of aircraft blast in from anywhere and just land.    Circuits are to the left, but even today, 2 aircraft flew what I would consider a weird angle from the right and just landed.

 

Add to that - not many use the radio around here LOL!

 

So it got me thinking... how many of us do the same thing?  I personally like to fly over the AD, spot the windsock, and make sure I am going to come in from the correct direction.  But I am only 130 hours in, so call me cautious!

 

Confessions Session is now open.  ?

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6 minutes ago, BirdDog said:

So.... Here's a question...

 

How many of us out there use the circuit correctly.  As in, when you arrive at an AD, you go through the motions of joining the circuit properly?

 

I ask because I live near an AD where lots  of aircraft blast in from anywhere and just land.    Circuits are to the left, but even today, 2 aircraft flew what I would consider a weird angle from the right and just landed.

 

Add to that - not many use the radio around here LOL!

 

So it got me thinking... how many of us do the same thing?  I personally like to fly over the AD, spot the windsock, and make sure I am going to come in from the correct direction.  But I am only 130 hours in, so call me cautious!

 

Confessions Session is now open.  ?

You’re developing good habits that could save your neck one day.

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Hey Turbo,


Yeah man!  I like my life!  LOL!  And I know this is a quiet AD, but still... Why do some just run rogue.  I don't get it!  Are they too cool for school??

 

I love the words my instructor used when training me.... He called it.... "how not to die" training!  I like that!

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Yeah...sounds like it has gone "rogue". Out of the ordinary I would say.

Perhaps there is no "authority" of any kind to keep a handle on things. 

A school or training facility usually pulls wayward flyers in line as a bad example to their students or perhaps pilots don't want to be seen breaking the rules so behave.

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5 minutes ago, Downunder said:

Yeah...sounds like it has gone "rogue". Out of the ordinary I would say.

Perhaps there is no "authority" of any kind to keep a handle on things. 

A school or training facility usually pulls wayward flyers in line as a bad example to their students or perhaps pilots don't want to be seen breaking the rules so behave.

 

Well, My bird has been here for a year, and it's been that way since I have been here.  I wonder how common it is at other ADs.  There is no school here either.

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5 hours ago, Downunder said:

Yeah...sounds like it has gone "rogue". Out of the ordinary I would say.

Perhaps there is no "authority" of any kind to keep a handle on things. 

A school or training facility usually pulls wayward flyers in line as a bad example to their students or perhaps pilots don't want to be seen breaking the rules so behave.

CASA have to manage GA pilots, but RAA have to manage RA pilots, and if the offenders are RA pilots, that's a red flag for RAA's self administration.

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I will make straight  in approach or base join whenever possible. AWIS allows the wind to be known and we have radios.

Others that do this are, every ag pilot(often with a tail wind), the freight plane, Rex and Qantas link, the flying school and others.

The less time I can spend in the circuit the better, it is a dangerous place.    

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44 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

I will make straight  in approach or base join whenever possible. AWIS allows the wind to be known and we have radios.

Others that do this are, every ag pilot(often with a tail wind), the freight plane, Rex and Qantas link, the flying school and others.

The less time I can spend in the circuit the better, it is a dangerous place.    

If it's as busy as that, the best join is approach from the dead side at 1500' and let down to your circuit height on downwind. This gives you a good view of the whole circuit on approach, and depending where the existing aircraft are you can choose early, mid late downwind to get ahead/behind the other aircraft  on downwind, and you are looking out towards where the 2 mile downwinders are travelling, so you can get well ahead of them because they have a very long base. While this is happening there will be radio from the professionals which will help as well as nothing from the unprofessionals, which you have a chance of seeing.

 

This approach allows you to increase your speed, or pull on flap, adjust throttle for level flight and travel at a lower speed to give yourself some gap from the person in front in case he/she is one of those that taxies forever.

 

Vs a joing on base, it gives you some options id someone pushes in as they do, you can go further downwind which puts you comfortably behind that aircraft on base, and that will also give you a longer final, because those people often land short and taxy long.

 

Vs straight in, you have a lot more chance of seeing or being seen and your radio messages make your position much easier for other people to locate. At times I've almost crapped myself trying to find a heavy passenger helicopter who has just called a straight in because he could be doing anything from slow to 100kts and he could be correctly alighed with the runway or he could be cutting the corner.

 

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Fly the circuit, there are good reasons for doing it. And get on the radio and remind others if they fly opposite the circuit direction. 

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Yeah these guys joined a right base (well not even base really)  when the circuit is definitely left, and not a radio call between them.  Both - GA aircraft. 

 

On other occasions there’s a guy that flies straight down the runway at circuit height and then gets off the end and pulls nose up and almost hammer head turns to come back and land.  Again - GA.  

 

its surprised me as I’ve never seen stuff like this before at other ADs.  

 

And I’m certainly not wanting to be a trouble maker, and stir the pot - was just curious. 

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14 minutes ago, BirdDog said:

Yeah these guys joined a right base (well not even base really)  when the circuit is definitely left, and not a radio call between them.  Both - GA aircraft. 

 

On other occasions there’s a guy that flies straight down the runway at circuit height and then gets off the end and pulls nose up and almost hammer head turns to come back and land.  Again - GA.  

 

its surprised me as I’ve never seen stuff like this before at other ADs.  

 

And I’m certainly not wanting to be a trouble maker, and stir the pot - was just curious. 

What airfield? I’d like to avoid it like the plague!

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IF we don't have rules, and stick to them, it's only a matter of time before someone pays (dearly) Forget VH and RAAus. If any person observes anything of a dangerous nature relating to aircraft movements, THEY are required by law to report it to the authorities. There's NO "if you feel like it" about it. Landing against the other traffic  is dangerous, inconsiderate and may well be illegal certainly IF you create a dangerous situation by so doing. You must operate your plane in the most safe manner possible and that's how it will be regarded at law if it ends up in court. Nev

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I don't like that idea of descending from 1500 to circuit height on downwind. I think the correct way is to overfly and descend to circuit height on the dead side, join downwind at 45 degrees. That way you will not descend onto someone else.

 I once joined the circuit at an airstrip and was on mid final when the owner of the strip shot in front of me and turned final doing a right circuit. He had decided to do right circuits as it kept him away from a skydiving mob at another strip. His radio wasn't working. He got quite a surprise when I passed him on final and landed half way down the strip. I was in the Corby and he was in a Zenith STOl type.

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If you join on the dead side at 1500 you may conflict with traffic departing overhead. I was taught to join on the dead side at circuit height. 

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 Why would that avoid the problem?  Crossing MID field and being at circuit height by shortened downwind seems to be the best. Some high performance aeroplanes climb steeply on take off and or another may have elected to do a go around from some height.  Being aware of where everyone is is ideal but unlikely in many situations. Can be a high workload.  Get as many checks over as early as you can and keep a good look outside.  Nev

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10 minutes ago, Jabiru7252 said:

If you join on the dead side at 1500 you may conflict with traffic departing overhead. I was taught to join on the dead side at circuit height. 

Departing overhead always seems like a silly idea to me. I fly away from the circuit, 3nm if required and turn onto track, why fly into potential conflict? 

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I think departing from overhead went out when Pontius was a pilot, EXCEPT if you are departing  to fly over really inhospitable territory where it's a good idea to climb to a safe height before leaving the aerodrome vicinity which has remained available for a safe return during the climb.. Nev.

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Sounds like most have it easy! At my club we have gliders and pawnee tow plane doing their own thing. Can be interesting at times.

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Fortunately, I am training at a busy airport YCFS where there are schools, QANTAS, Tiger Air, Toll, air ambulance etc.  hope the chances of a screw up are minimal. 

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

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11 hours ago, turboplanner said:

CASA have to manage pilots, but RAA have to manage RA pilots, and if the offenders are RA pilots, that's a red flag for RAA's self administration.

It is the opposite here at YLTV   RAA pilots mostly do the correct calls  ( although often too many calls ) it is the GA pilots that dont seem to care about the correct radio calls and circuit procedures  so I guess here it is a red flag for  CASA 

Edited by crashley
spelling

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7 minutes ago, Kenlsa said:

Sounds like most have it easy! At my club we have gliders and pawnee tow plane doing their own thing. Can be interesting at times.

Warwick Qld can be the same. Mostly good but sometimes interesting. Nature of the beast really, sometimes they misjudge and have to vary join. Pawnee is generally very good, might call ‘high downwind’ or ‘long downwind’ but they do call!

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 Y use this YABC stuff HERE.. U R not F planning so lets use plain English not plane confusing $#1t shorthand.  if you want people to have any idea wherebouts you are talking of.  just say Whopp Whoop International... PLEASE. then I can use what little amount of brain cell material I have left for a worthy purpose...Nev

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Speaking out of personal experience, one fine day inbound into Shepparton from Mangalore with a decent 20 kts strong southerly wind blowing over the region, I had been monitoring the CTAF for long enough to conclude that nobody was flying, esp. after receiving no reaction to my inbound call. And just as merry as I am, approaching YSHT from the south, and giving the AWIS a quick listen to confirm that it'll be runway 18, a champion on their climb following an obvious upwind departure from runway 18 races past me in the opposite direction at roughly the same height but luckily with enough horizontal separation. I immediately checked my CTAF frequency to ensure that I hadn't made any mistake dialling it in and indeed, the frequency was correct. I concluded that the prick just hadn't been broadcasting at all or had the wrong frequency. The aircraft which looked like a Cherokee definitely was radio equipped. From that day onwards I am never assuming that radio silence equals absence of traffic and I'm cautious not to approach an aerodrome on the reciprocal of the active runway at an altitude that can be in conflict with traffic departing on the upwind leg. This all seems obvious when you read it, I know. There are complacent pilots out there, assume nothing!

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8 hours ago, Thruster88 said:

Departing overhead always seems like a silly idea to me. I fly away from the circuit, 3nm if required and turn onto track, why fly into potential conflict? 

Absolutely agree with you!

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