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Bruce Tuncks

Jabiru rescues Rotax plane

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One of our Jabiru owners has just flown to William Creek ( near Lake Eyre ) to pick up the pilot of a Rotax-powered  metal plane from Gawler. Sorry but I don't know any details, except for the fact that the metal East-European plane is not flyable.

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Just got more popcorn a few days ago, good timing 😂

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Here's more info: The Rotax plane is still at William Creek. There is a coolant leak from the radiator, and this grounds the plane.

The Jabiru actually flew from Gawler to William Creek and back to Gawler on 2 consecutive days to collect the pilots. That's 4 trips in all.

What a heroic thing by that Jabiru pilot huh.

There is no known event where a Jabiru engine was grounded by a coolant leak. 

Edited by Bruce Tuncks
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11 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

 

There is no known event where a Jabiru engine was grounded by a coolant leak. 

Probably because it isn’t water cooled Bruce.

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I'm sure Bruce knows that. If it's not there it can't fail and extra items like oil cooler radiators, filters and cooling piping and radiators pumps fuel pumps,thermostats, complex exhaust systems turbochargers etc are all extra things to go wrong.. Nev

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9 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

 

What a heroic thing by that Jabiru pilot huh.

 

There is no known event where a Jabiru engine was grounded by a coolant leak. 

The Jabiru pilot is obviously a great individual, well done.

 

Just to balance the discussion I will point out the jabiru's also have a radiator just that hot oil flows through it. I recall that some of them have developed leaks. 🤔

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5 hours ago, Kyle Communications said:

 

 

Edited by Arron25
Spur of the moment comment

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Quite right Thruster. there was an AD years ago to modify the oil pump on Jabirus. An ordinary pressure gauge showed that the pressures sent to the oil cooler were within spec, but there were quite a few leaking oil coolers.  There was a big fight between Jabiru and the oil-cooler makers.

When Jabiru looked at the transient pressures with a high-speed transducer, they found that the oil pump was sending shock-waves at higher than the spec pressures. So Jabiru apologized and we all had to modify the pumps.

Do Rotax engines also have an oil cooler ?

 

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2 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Quite right Thruster. there was an AD years ago to modify the oil pump on Jabirus.

 

Do Rotax engines also have an oil cooler ?

 

That is a good question, one I can't answer definitely.

  

All lLycoming and Continental (the old rubbish stone age but still very reliable engines of GA and not yet replaced) engines have oil coolers that are well designed and installed.

 

I would be genuinely interested to know the failure mode at William Creek  so we can learn from this (most likely will not happen). Continental and Lycoming are great because of all the many AD's they have been subject to.  

Edited by Thruster88

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5 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Do Rotax engines also have an oil cooler ?

Yes Bruce, most definately. 

The oil is however, basically sucked through the cooler from the oil tank. Then from the pump directly into the engine galleries. 

Like a few things on the Rotax, not your standard setup. 

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Saying all Lycomings and Continentals have oil coolers is INCORRECT. Those that don't need them don't have them.  The ones that do generally have them mounted directly on the engine  and are pretty robust. Nev

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6 hours ago, facthunter said:

Saying all Lycomings and Continentals have oil coolers is INCORRECT. Those that don't need them don't have them.  The ones that do generally have them mounted directly on the engine  and are pretty robust. Nev

Not saying you are incorrect Nev but my McFarlane 2018 catalog has oil cooler part numbers for every single engine cessna and piper. That would cover every engine family from Lyc and cont.

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17 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

Not saying you are incorrect Nev but my McFarlane 2018 catalog has oil cooler part numbers for every single engine cessna and piper. That would cover every engine family from Lyc and cont.

It’s my understanding ( could be wrong as I have never flown in the conditions below) that though there is an oil cooler made for every model of the cont-lyc range there is not a requirement that they are fitted. If being flown  in cold locations they don’t need them and they don’t need to actually be on the engine. 

Edited by Jaba-who

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My O-235 doesn't have an oil cooler....or an oil filter, as we are used to anyway, if you don't count a screen. Fred Flintstone but works. Ken

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54 minutes ago, Jaba-who said:

It’s my understanding ( could be wrong as I have never flown in the conditions below) that though there is an oil cooler made for every model of the cont-lyc range there is not a requirement that they are fitted. If being flown  in cold locations they don’t need them and they don’t need to actually be on the engine. 

I was thinking Australia and 30 plus degrees. Even with a cooler the my musketeer gets close to the red line on a hot day on climb. The vernatherm cuts out the cooler when not required. Someone living in Alaska who ordered their aircraft with out a cooler (can you actually do that ?) would be stuffed if they flew to Texas in summer. 

Edited by Thruster88

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They have provision for one but it can be blanked off by a casting with passages that divert the oil direct.. In very cold conditions an oil cooler can be a risk. Too cold and restrict flow.. I've owned two planes that don't have or need a cooler.  I've also flown planes that need the cooler  air blocked off partially or fully in cool conditions. Many engines get enough air around the crankcase if they are cowled properly. If the oil temp doesn't reach 85 C you run the risk of it becoming cloudy and corrosion of the engine innards resulting. Adjustable Cowl gills  can regulate engine temps for varying conditions but are rarely fitted so you are left with adding a bit of speed if the temps are rising (unless there's a hill or tree in front of you). Nev

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Two comments -

 

The Jab pilot should  is without doubt a hero.

 

The fact that the grounding of Rotax motivated aircraft is "news", speak volumes, as per other rare/unusual event.

 

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The radiator doesn't know what make of engine it's fitted to but if an engine has a radiator, it CAN spring a leak. You like Rotax's because you are selling planes with them fitted so you are hardly unbiased. Ancillaries often cause engines to fail . How one is installed can compromise any engine and NO engine is perfect. Far from it Nev

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5 minutes ago, facthunter said:

The radiator doesn't know what make of engine it's fitted to but if an engine has a radiator, it CAN spring a leak. You like Rotax's because you are selling planes with them fitted so you are hardly unbiased. Ancillaries often cause engines to fail . How one is installed can compromise any engine and NO engine is perfect. Far from it Nev

Take it easy, there's by no means an epidemic going on, just one aircraft needing a leak fixed.

Yes, if an engine has a radiator is CAN spring a leak, but then we have 19.5 million cars in Australia right now with radiators.

Yes ancillaries often cause engines to fail.

Yes how one is installed can compromise any engine.

Yes, if you leave the radiator cap off you can compromise the engine.

Yes is you leave the prop bolts loose you can compromise the engine.

Yes if you put diesel in the fuel tak you can compromise the engine.

How far do you want to go with this hypothetical theoryfest?

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On 10/10/2019 at 4:23 PM, Thruster88 said:

Not saying you are incorrect Nev but my McFarlane 2018 catalog has oil cooler part numbers for every single engine cessna and piper. That would cover every engine family from Lyc and cont.

I worked on PA38 Tomahawks for nine years and unless my memory is failing (a possibility!) they don’t, or didn’t have oil coolers.

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1 minute ago, derekliston said:

I worked on PA38 Tomahawks for nine years and unless my memory is failing (a possibility!) they don’t, or didn’t have oil coolers.

Yes it seems the little Lycons  and others don't need them. I will be careful not to make blanket statements in the future ☺ 

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