Soar Aviation pilot training remains suspended pending audit

[fly_tornado 2,989]

Soar Aviation pilot training remains suspended pending audit

Soar Aviation chief executive Neel Khokhani.

• An hour ago November 6, 2019
• No Comments

Australia’s largest pilot training school, Soar Aviation, has cancelled flying for a fifth straight day following an audit of training partner Box Hill Institute.

Students first learned of the cancellations late Friday via emails from Box Hill and Soar, which have been the subject of investigations by the Australian Skills Quality Authority and the Victorian Department of Education.

Box Hill’s correspondence said the TAFE college maintained safety as its highest priority, and it had “requested Soar to suspend flying for BHI students for the next few days”.

 

READ MORE: Pilot courses on hold | Training ‘not delivered’

That was followed by an email from Soar Aviation CEO Neel Khokhani informing students “Box Hill Institute had requested documentation in relation to our fleet” and they would be pausing flight operations until that was provided.

He added that students would not be charged for the cancelled flights.

A further update was received by students from Mr Khokhani Monday night, revealing Soar was “continuing to work with Box Hill to clarify an aspect of our flight training”, then last night, an instructor sent a message about further cancellations on Wednesday.

“At this point flights won’t be going ahead for reasons you already know,” wrote the instructor.

“On the positive side, we at Soar have been working to get flights back up and running and at this point things are looking positive, with flying most likely starting again this week.”

Box Hill theory classes were proceeding as usual, the message said.

Students have lodged multiple complaints to Box Hill and the Department of Education about their training at Soar, claiming it was not what they were promised.

One student said she was told she would be trained in a Cessna 172 for her commercial pilot’s licence (CPL), and instead she was flying a Foxbat and forced to take out membership of Recreational Aviation Australia (RAAus).

Concerns have also been raised about the high number of enrolments in comparison to flight instructors and aircraft, and the low rate of completions.

Data from the Department of Employment show there were 289 enrolments in the BHI CPL diploma in the first six months of this year, and a 47.6 per cent unit of study completion rate.

More than $7m in VET student loans had been granted for the training.

Mr Khokhani and Box Hill Institute are yet to respond to questions from The Australian about the ongoing flight cancellations.

[onetrack 1,504]

Obviously, just ongoing training compliance work by people from VET. Hopefully, a lot more of these organisations who get vast sums of money from the Govt for training, are scrutinised and checked, to ensure that proper training is being carried out, that people being trained are getting good value in their courses, and that the shonky operators of these dodgy businesses are weeded out.

 

This mornings ABC story of one fraudulent schooling operator being found out and jailed, is just the tip of the iceberg.

Whenever vast sums of Govt assistance money are freely available, the shonky operators are always ready and willing to acquire as much of that money as they can, without any degree of ethical behaviour.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-06/private-college-reaped-$2m-from-students-but-never-taught-class/11662164

[Downunder 1,682]

If the govt is paying up front before people are passing and being qualified, it's pretty obvious the system is wide open to rorting.

Wouldn't a reimbursement system more effectual?

[jetjr 1,826]

not if its a four year course and a three year electoral cycle

[Admin 3,431]

Posts have had to be removed due to racism. This site does not support these types of posts...please help to keep this a great site for everyone, thanks

[facthunter 12,903]

How does paying for a flying qualification GUARANTEE you will graduate?  You can't just say I've paid ... Where's my ticket, although it's been tried and maybe succeeded in some instances where things like political pressure has been applied. There's always the possibility you won't make the grade. Some fail command years after starting with an Airline. Some drop out on a Conversion to a new type. Some fail a recurrent check...Nev

[Bennyboy320 344]

54 minutes ago, facthunter said:

How does paying for a flying qualification GUARANTEE you will graduate?  You can't just say I've paid ... Where's my ticket, although it's been tried and maybe succeeded in some instances where things like political pressure has been applied. There's always the possibility you won't make the grade. Some fail command years after starting with an Airline. Some drop out on a Conversion to a new type. Some fail a recurrent check...Nev

I was always told “if you want a guarantee buy a toaster”😊

[Frankus1aust 126]

Hangout at Moorabbin for a while and there are any quantity of stories on Soar. Not all are sourer grapes. The business model looks like grow with lowest common denominator and flip for  a big cash out. The price is false economy for the student and a windfall for the company.

 

[old man emu 2,215]

On 07/11/2019 at 12:56 PM, Admin said:

Posts have had to be removed due to racism. This site does not support these types of posts...please help to keep this a great site for everyone, thanks

Sorry, but how does one state facts without having those statements labelled "racist"? I was writing from my personal experience when dealing with these aged care facilities. Don't expect all cultures to comply with the innate morality of the West European Judaeo-Christian culture, then you will not be hurt. Unfortunately the World is now also suffering from the effects of the worship of Mammon by the USA. 

[old man emu 2,215]

This is interesting. The collaboration between Box Hill Institute and Soar Aviation leaves the student with an RAAus pilot CERTIFICATE and the theory knowledge to pass the CASA theory exams for a CPL. Their fee for the course is $47,500

 

https://www.boxhill.edu.au/courses/diploma-of-aviation-commercial-pilot-licence-aeroplane-davcn-d/

[pmccarthy 2,224]

6 hours ago, old man emu said:

This is interesting. The collaboration between Box Hill Institute and Soar Aviation leaves the student with an RAAus pilot CERTIFICATE and the theory knowledge to pass the CASA theory exams for a CPL. Their fee for the course is $47,500

 

https://www.boxhill.edu.au/courses/diploma-of-aviation-commercial-pilot-licence-aeroplane-davcn-d/

That is a ridiculous rip off. 

[old man emu 2,215]

But it's a wonderful, ethical business plan that we should embrace for self-betterment.

[facthunter 12,903]

 You also get a personal experience  that will remind you, a fool and his/her money are soon Parted. It appears a lot of these Gov't subsidised ventures are indulging in fraudulent practices. and many just get you into the country but not in a boat.. Fly by night  can't be taken as a night rating.. Nev

[Downunder 1,682]

How involved are the RAA in this venture I wonder? 

[DenisPC9 60]

On 07/11/2019 at 2:18 PM, facthunter said:

How does paying for a flying qualification GUARANTEE you will graduate?  You can't just say I've paid ... Where's my ticket, although it's been tried and maybe succeeded in some instances where things like political pressure has been applied. There's always the possibility you won't make the grade. Some fail command years after starting with an Airline. Some drop out on a Conversion to a new type. Some fail a recurrent check...Nev

Military Flying Training has had a 60% washout rate since WWI up until 2005.  That's when I left the Industry.  I ran the software that ran the School's Ground based rep-Flight training as running the daily Operations and Flight Scheduling.

 

I got this piece of information from the Psychs who assess for suitability in selections and those that assess Students in training.  They were in Defence and also had overseas experience in these fields.

 

I suspect civilian washout rates are nowhere near 60% but I also suspect their success rate is nowhere near 100% either.

[facthunter 12,903]

That's very high washout rate, but they DID operate on a fixed % more or less, always, so you wouldn't want to be on a course where they were all good performers. If that % FAIL the selection process isn't  up to much. Many foreign students do have well off backers who DO expect to PASS because they've paid the Course fees and have made a fuss  at diplomatic levels and have gone way with the qualification. THIS is NOT an acceptable process but it's profitable so ....... AS Ive stated before a pilot can FAIL at any stage of a recurrent SIM check A crook line performance or on a conversion course to a new type. There may be a process of review available but there's no guarantees. Unless perhaps you are the Maharajahs or Director of Aviations  son . Nev

[djpacro 1,310]

7 hours ago, old man emu said:

This is interesting. The collaboration between Box Hill Institute and Soar Aviation leaves the student with an RAAus pilot CERTIFICATE and the theory knowledge to pass the CASA theory exams for a CPL. Their fee for the course is $47,500

 

https://www.boxhill.edu.au/courses/diploma-of-aviation-commercial-pilot-licence-aeroplane-davcn-d/

You should get the quote correct! It states: "You'll also be eligible to undertake the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) licence tests for Commercial Pilot Licence (CPL)." Not that hard to read and get the info correct (I hope). That price is the annual fee so you can double it for 2 years. That is 2 years study at BHI plus flight training to get to where one is eligible for a CPL test. Get an RPC with nav endorsement along the way - gotta do that otherwise CASA's onerous regs make it virtually impossible for a student to do a solo CPL nav under training.

[Thruster88 509]

13 minutes ago, djpacro said:

You should get the quote correct! It states: "You'll also be eligible to undertake the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) licence tests for Commercial Pilot Licence (CPL)." Not that hard to read and get the info correct (I hope). That price is the annual fee so you can double it for 2 years. That is 2 years study at BHI plus flight training to get to where one is eligible for a CPL test. Get an RPC with nav endorsement along the way - gotta do that otherwise CASA's onerous regs make it virtually impossible for a student to do a solo CPL nav under training.

What aircraft is used for the CPL test and how do the students gain the experience with only an RPC

[djpacro 1,310]

I visited Soar recently to have a look around and chatted to some instructors there. I also know some past students.

 

Having got an RPC then fill in a form to get an RPL from CASA - standard procedure. Gain experience? Well, there is a syllabus to get to CPL per their website https://soar.edu.au/commercial-pilot-licence/# they'd been doing CPL in one variant of the Bristell which apparently conforms to CASA requirements however as I was told, and per the website, from next year CPL in the twin Tecnam.

[DenisPC9 60]

42 minutes ago, facthunter said:

That's very high washout rate, but they DID operate on a fixed % more or less, always, so you wouldn't want to be on a course where they were all good performers. If that % FAIL the selection process isn't  up to much. Many foreign students do have well off backers who DO expect to PASS because they've paid the Course fees and have made a fuss  at diplomatic levels and have gone way with the qualification. THIS is NOT an acceptable process but it's profitable so ....... AS Ive stated before a pilot can FAIL at any stage of a recurrent SIM check A crook line performance or on a conversion course to a new type. There may be a process of review available but there's no guarantees. Unless perhaps you are the Maharajahs or Director of Aviations  son . Nev

I suspect it was an average.  Although I don't know that "average of what", maybe annually.

 

During the 4 years I as there, some Courses only lost a few and other Courses lost more than half the Studs.

 

The only "foreign" students on Course when I was there was when the RAF Tucanos were all grounded due to "stuff" in the breathing system.  It didn't take long for 2 complete Courses, Det Commander and QFIs were re-located to 2FTS, Australia and they carried on. 

 

It wasn't quite what they were used to.  We don't have Batmen and we were very much more thorough in assessing the progress of Students.  Ours was all Computer based, whereas many of the RAF flying aspects were on the say-so of the QFI.  And using our system they had Students fail on their CO/CFI Assessment (Wings) Flight.  Apparently that was a first.

 

Although they took to the social life like Poms to a good Bitter.  😉

 

But I did hear from mates who went through Duntroon that that was the case for foreign Cadets.

[facthunter 12,903]

 STUDS  or STUDES? . You have to keep your mind on the job. Nev

[DenisPC9 60]

16 minutes ago, facthunter said:

 STUDS  or STUDES? . You have to keep your mind on the job. Nev

Phonetically it was pronounced "STUDS".

 

It may have been "STUDES" in your days, but you know what succeeding generations do.  And it never quite matches up to what their forerunners did 😉

[old man emu 2,215]

3 hours ago, djpacro said:

You should get the quote correct! It states: "You'll also be eligible to undertake the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) licence tests for Commercial Pilot Licence (CPL)." Not that hard to read and get the info correct (I hope)

I said, 

11 hours ago, old man emu said:

leaves the student with an RAAus pilot CERTIFICATE and the theory knowledge to pass the CASA theory exams for a CPL.

The wording from Soar is a bit ambiguous. Are they referring to the CPL theory exams or the CPL flight test?

 

Actually anyone can undertake the CPL licence tests, but unless you have the theory knowledge you will not pass the exam. There is a big difference between being able to undertake an examination (ie attend an examination centre and work on an exam paper) and getting over the Pass/Fail boundary.

 

 

[djpacro 1,310]

Not ambiguous at all. The website is clear that graduating students get a CPL. 

 

Licence test for a CPL is very clear - to be eligible for that test means having passes in the theory exams plus achieving the competency and experience requirements of CASA to do a test.

[old man emu 2,215]

Fair enough