Drew Ford

Any commercial pilot please do not answer this if you know the answer and give it away this is for the guys to exercise their brains in RAA or PPL pilots.

 

This question we got thrown as a hypothetical in one of senior commercial theory licence questions in class it was not in an actual exam – but a bit of fun by the instructor.

 

Accept the premise AND all assumptions.

 

So we have 50 tons of Canaries (yes little yellow birds) sitting in all the seats of a 747. No seats belts.

 

The 747 is flying at 35,000 feet straight and level.

 

Then all 50 tons of Canaries become airborne inside the 747 flying around.

 

The Question

 

• What happens to the 747 In other words is it 50 tons lighter Or is it the same weight at that point in time.
  
• If it is 50 tons lighter does THE 747 climb
  
• If the 747 maintains it's flight level without climbing WHY?
  

 

 

Please explain your logic and process of YOUR answer.

 

No droll smart **** answers I've heard them all before .

If you think of the birds confined in the pressurised space within the 747, then no matter what the birds were doing, sitting or flying, their weight would be the same on the aircraft.

If the birds were out side of the aircraft and hanging on to it, their weight would also be the same, but if they all let go and flew in their own right, then the 747 would experience a weight reduction.

Like if a 747 was piggy backing the Shuttle, on a flight from LA to Florida, the 747 would experience the weight of the Shuttle attached to its back, but if the Shuttle all of a sudden flew off and detached itself from the 747 then there would be a weight reduction on the 747s pay load. So what ever happens inside of the 747 does not alter its overall weight.

According to the ABC news last night the aircraft was on a test flight after maintenance and there were engine problems after 15 minutes of flight so it was attempting to return to the airfield. If it was still in phase 1 testing which I presume is the first 25 hours, the maintenance is likely to be adjustments/modifications to improve performance or even just idle speed etc. I know from personal experience that the first flight after maintenance is fraught with possible problems.

There is logic as to why it is improbable that there is life on other planets.

Sounds very adventurous. You need everything in top condition, including yourself and the Aircraft.

Have plans B & C. and be prepared for the unexpected in regards to the weather, you & your passenger, and the Aircraft.

Keep a diary of the lead up to to trip, The idea, The finances, The planing. Preparation, Lessons learned.

What were good decisions and what better decisions could have been made.

Would make for a good short story/adventure for other aviators.

Hi Everyone, I'm planning on doing a trip with 2 other planes from Lismore (Northern Nsw) to the Great Ocean rd, in winter

 

I haven't done any flying down the southern parts of Oz so not overly familiar with places to go and see or keep away from, so hoping for some suggestions, local knowledge or pilots who have done similiar trips.

The route i mapped while watching the idiot box the other night is roughly done and sure there'll b a few changes as i look in2 it a bit more.

Not sure how to come back home once we're west of the Great ocean rd wether to head up to Broken hill and follow the Darling river system back which we did a few yrs ago or a more coastal route?

 

Here's [ATTACH type=full" alt="Screenshot_20200206-192846.jpg]51265[/ATTACH]the track i have so far

Lismore

Amidale

Rylstone

Bathurst

Cowra

Young

Cootamundra

Tumut

Holbrook

Mitta mitta

Mount Beauty

Bright

Milawa

Wangaratta

Yarrawonga

Shepparton

Bendigo

Windermere

Lethbridge

Barwon heads

Apolla Bay

Peterborough

Warrnambool

Port Fairly

Portland

Mount Gambier

Millicent

Robe

Kingston

Deniliquin

Griffith

Forbes

There was the unfortunate case of an early model  Skyfox hired to a Solo Student, who practiced his left & right turns, after doing a prolonged turn, he noticed one wing tank was empty, thinking he will not make it back to base, he decided  to put it down in a paddock, resulting in substantial damage to the aircraft.  Tears.

I remember in California a pilot did a refuel the night before his flight so he could get away first light in the morning.

The fuel gauges read back to front, that is, when Full,  the needles went to the left!

However someone observed the refueling, and when the pilot left,  the thief emptied both tanks resulting in the fuel gauge needles going all the way to the right. (which on most aircraft would indicate full fuel.) 

The next morning the Pilot did not pick this up in his checks as he knew he had refuled the aircraft the night before. The result was tears.

Need to be careful not to slip into the habit of doing checks robotically.

Take your time and actually look at the item you are checking.

A Chief flying Instructor in N.Z. Ardmore, was caught out doing what he always told his students never to do, that is to assume an item is checked without actually checking it.

 Both of us got into a PA 28 (I was converting my Oz PPL to a NZ PPL.) The CFI said   "I will show you how to get to the other end of the field, it was a long taxi around with numerous clearances, he did the take off checks, and when it came to FUEL ON,  he touched the tap on the floor, but did not actually look at the taps position-( it was in the OFF position.) So after our run up, we line up,  got our take off clearance, full power, then just about lift off,  the aircraft pulled firmly to the right, then the engine quit!

We narrowly avoided hitting the base of the Tower and ended up off the strip on the grass.

Post flight analysis.

After 20 minutes of searching for the problem the CFI found the fuel tap in the OFF position.

There were many expletives used, which are not printable, but the CFI said the School has a policy of never turning the FUEL OFF during the day, only at the last flight of the day. 

Well that solved why the engine quit, but what caused the Piper to firmly turn to the right at lift off?.

Another 20 minutes of investigating control surfaces etc, etc, the problem was located in the cockpit.

This Piper Cherokee had an auto Pilot fitted and the ON /OFF switch was on the panel directly in front of the throttle. So when you applied full forward, throttle, your knuckles  hit the front panel and turned the Auto Pilot ON .  

The bug on the Auto Pilot was on a setting to the right of the runway heading, so as the aircraft was ready the leap into the air the Auto Pilot was ready to turn onto the preset heading.

The diagnosis was correct, the problem was in the cockpit. The Pilot in command.!

No one hurt and no damage, except for some pride perhaps.

But it could have ended up differently. 

The long taxi to the other end of the field certainly was a factor, had we taken off at the Club House end of the main runway we would have had fuel exhaustion past the point of no return.

So it can happen to the best of us.!

And don't trust something because its brand new.

A new Aircraft was being assembled at the airfield by its happy owners. 

By mid day all was ready for start up, after several attempts the Rotax fired, the aircraft was tied down and the throttle set to idle.

The motor was left running, whilst maps, headings, weather, was checked and rechecked, and periodically the CHT was checked, all was fine.

First leg of the trip was Camden to Mudgee across the Blue Mountains.

Then suddenly after about half an hour the engine suddenly stopped!!

The next day it was found to have aluminium shavings in the fuel line!!

If they had taken Off immediately after assembly, they probably would have come down around  Katoomba in Tiger country.

My saying is that you may not always get into the air, but if you do, one thing is for sure,  you will always come back down again, and how that will happen largely depends on the Pilot in Command.

Cheers, stay alive and fly safe.

Great pics of Thruster in NZ. 

NZ has produced some good pilots, David Belton,  (Thruster Aircraft Director) youngest N.Z. Commercial Pilot to hold that rating.

Also Ken Asplin CFI was from NZ. operated a school in W.A. and in Sydney. 

Incidentally The picture on my Profile pic,  is of the Opel which holds the altitude record 33,000 ft + 

Sadly the owner pilot a few weeks later had a major structural failure and did not survive. 

Hi Stuart,

Yes getting the photos sorted and writing small post scripts  so you know the location and story behind the pic. I have purchased a multi-photo scanner, from Melbourne, should be here on the weekend, I will scan all my photos (about 6,000) several hundred or so it appears, to be about flying.

As soon as I scan them I will send you the originals.

Andrew.

OK the Photos are scanned and I have sent the originals, by post  with heaps of paraphernalia, original Thruster Owners manual, news paper articles, crash reports, Thruster Advertising, Air Show participation, etc,etc. 

Enjoy cheers Andrew.

Hi Stuart,

Yes getting the photos sorted and writing small post scripts  so you know the location and story behind the pic. I have purchased a multi-photo scanner, from Melbourne, should be here on the weekend, I will scan all my photos (about 6,000) several hundred or so it appears, to be about flying.

As soon as I scan them I will send you the originals.

Andrew.

Amazing to see the log entry of your Pilot Certificate.

Yes I think you were one of those natural people who took to flying quiet easily. 

My training Thruster at Moruya, I used to fly it down from The Oaks west of Camden NSW.

Was a long day to get back before last light.

It has now the black pod (was Blue) after a student bingled  the nose,  I repaired it and had it spray painted. 

Hi Deskpilot,

I did have some videos from the 1980s, but they deteriorated. 

I have got many photos which I can send coppies, the term "Deskpilot" is a little frightening, are you licenced or associated with a registered flying school, or are you a Deskpilot whilst waiting for your dream bird to be serviceable again. lol.

I loved the Thrusters, but the industry has moved on and there many good birds out there, but probably not as affordable as a well maintained Thruster.

Hi Yenn, 

Yes I believe there are many Thrusters flying, no factory support, but many technical people pool their knowledge and owners can keep their machines in the air.

I was the factory CFI and I learnt to 3 point them on, but an analysis of damage to the aircraft if the student got it wrong or panicked when the aircraft started kangaroo hopping down the strip, made it prudent to teach the students a way out if they could not 3 point them, so we also wheeled them on. In the end a typical landing was sort of half 3 pointer and half wheels on.

Regards Andrew.

Hi Stuart,

You must have been one of the originals as well.

My CFI. PE. Licence with the AUF was 0541 which is one of the earliest CFI licences except for David Belton and Mr Dinsmore the National flying coach.

I live in Harris Park at the moment until March 6th. then Oseas.

Have to find a way to get the photos to you.

if you have any ideas give me a ring on 0490447795

Regards Drew Ford.

Hi Octave,

Yes I think I did teach you to fly, Keep safe and Well.

Cheers Andrew. 

Hi Guys,

I was the Factory CFI, PE,  in Sydney. Picton and The Oaks airfields.

I have 1000 photos of fly ins Thrusters at Airshows Club fly aways, etc, etc.

I could donate them to good home.

drew Ford. Sydney. 

Hi Stuart,

You must have been one of the originals as well.

My CFI. PE. Licence with the AUF was 0541 which is one of the earliest CFI licences except for David Belton and Mr Dinsmore the National flying coach.

I live in Harris Park at the moment until March 6th. then Oseas.

Have to find a way to get the photos to you.

if you have any ideas give me a ring on 0490447795

Regards Drew Ford.

Hi octave,

Yes I was, at that time the Factory School was at the Oaks west of Sydney.

Great club members and following from all over the world.

Enjoyed that time of flying very much, with great memories.

Andrew Ford.

Hi Guys,

I was the Factory CFI, PE,  in Sydney. Picton and The Oaks airfields.

I have 1000 photos of fly ins Thrusters at Airshows Club fly aways, etc, etc.

I could donate them to good home.

drew Ford. Sydney. 

Hi Guys,

Thrusters Galore, early days, T300, T500, 

Factory Manual. 1000 Photos, early Club Members.

I have a lot of memorabilia of Thruster Aircraft in its early beginnings. 

Photos Flying at Picton S.W of Sydney. 

Storm damage. to many Thrusters at The Oaks.

New Club House built by members.

Photos -Factory,  service photos.

Flying at The Oaks West of Sydney. Camden Air Show., The Hawkesbury, North Sydney.

Club fly aways Broken Hill, Grawin Opel fields, Lightning Ridge, Oberon, Fitzroy Falls Mittagong, Batemans Bay.

Photos Free to Good home.

 Location: Sydney Australia.