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Jeffmel

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Posts posted by Jeffmel

  1. II am undertaking training towards PPL/CPL. It just came across my mind, can I asked a mate who holds a CPL and instructor rating, and conduct "private training", using a rental airoplane. 

     

    Currently flying with a school but they only have Warrier/C172, for $380/h. The other club has C150 at super low rate ($160/h wet). Can I say pay $100 per hour for an instrucor (maybe from another school) and get him to fly with me in the smaller plane? There will be considerable savings and convinence right?

     

    Anyone has any experience?

  2. 30 minutes ago, RFguy said:

    That job will provide you an excellent introduction and background to many of the aspects of aircraft maintenance and ownership  - and you cant get that any other way other than doing the job yourself . 

    I know how to service my car but I still take it to mechanics coz it helps when I sell my car

     

    Does this applied to aircrafts? Buyer willing to pay premium prices if the aircraft has full servie history from certified mechenic? Ive checked the Jab in my school has always been serviced / mantained according to manufactors plan by L2 mechenic. 

    • Informative 1
  3. 3 hours ago, RFguy said:

    Jeff, I think most people would agree with me that you wont save any money at all buying for 100-200 hours over hiring....  I know you thought of "Leave most maintenance to the next buyer" but that's highly unlikely you'll be able to odo that. 

    I hired our club Brumby for about 80 hours.

     

    Dont discount the benefit of hiring so that you can fly multiple aircraft. They are all different.... I know you are at an exciting stage, but  Given that you have not got RPC done yet, I think you should wait until you've got NAVs done before firming up. Your perspective will change . By all means, do the NAVs in the school plane- depending on your instructor, you'll already have enough to do in the plane with NAV activity, let alone an unfamiliar aircraft. 

    Thanks. I'll finish the RPC test then consider buying. 

     

    I really like the Jibarus, it's a shame they are getting rid of it. 

  4. 2 hours ago, RFguy said:

    The benefits of hiring for you I think are that you get to fly a large number of different planes , this will add volumes to your development as a pilot.

    But in my case even if I fly the school's ones, there are only 3-4 to choose from, warrior and Piper, two types. 

     

    If I buy the Jabiru, do most training up to PPL level, then sell it. Maybe fly 100 hrs or less. Might take a year as I can only fly 2-3 hrs a week. Is this a better plan? Leave most maintenance to the next buyer

  5. 24 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

    My 10c

    (a) $24,000 > $20,000 is just proposed purchase price. Total cost includes membership, fees, hangarage, maintenance, component failures, insurance costs and more.

    (b) You didn't mention (or factor in?) waste hours where you start flying and learning to RA standards; then have to forget those and spend extra hours flying for the procedures required by GA but not required by RA, then Nav standards for GA, etc. It is much harder to unlearn processes you'll never need in an aviation career, and relearn them.

    I've seen your questions asked by a lot of young pilots who finished up paying more and losing time to get to a satisfactory CPL standard. It's been some of the people they met on the way through PPL and CPL who've mentored them into work, which is not the easiest thing to come by at the beginning.

     

    That's something new, I've never been told RAAUS and GA standards are so different. 

     

    I remember came across some ads saying their Jabiru was registered in GA and now registered with RA. that means there are should not be any major differences?

  6. 1 hour ago, turboplanner said:

    This is a good way to get confused during the two different types of training, and finish up doing more hours which offsets the cheaper AC rates. Buying your own aircraft doesn't save you money, you get all the joys of  tearing up hundred dollar bills because you are paying every dollar for every problem. Just think of the times you've been told XXXX is away for a few weeks getting a new engine or a new nose wheel etc. Worthwhile thinking the whole thing through. Nothing wrong with a J160, but the dollars owning your own aircraft training for eventual GA is not as simple as some people say expecially if they've never done a Total Cost of Life spreadsheet.

    That's why I'm so keen to know the reliability and maintenance cost for the J160.

     

    Again I'm only looking to do max 200hrs out of it then sell it. If I rent a similar one from school that's 200*$120=24000. I'm positive I can sell it at similar price but I'll say selling at -$4000 of purchasing price. 

     

    Which means, during my prospective 3 years ownership, if maintenance plus parking plus insurance, can be less than $20000, id be better off buying it, plus the convenience of much flexible timetable

  7. 42 minutes ago, RossK said:

    Last time I checked (with a CFI), RPC with Nav converts to RPL with Nav with some paperwork and proof to a CFI that you can fly a GA Aircraft.

    So typically 3-5 hours in a Warrior or C152 will get it done.

     

    but I could be wrong, it happens occasionally 😁

    I was told the same. 

     

    The cheapest and quickest way of is get RPC, nav and pax endorsement, then convert to RPL.

     

    After the conversation, can I still fly an RA and accumulate the hrs into GA, I'm not sure

  8. 2 hours ago, RFguy said:

    Hi Jeff

    That is a high TTAF (total time airframe) count.


    There wouuld most certainly be a multitude of important parts that must be inspected or reaplced at 4-5k hours.

    hinges, aileron stick control tube, teleflex cables , undercarriage bolts, wing bolts maybe , 

     

    I think you are going to need to look very carefully at all the maintenance paper work.  Offer perhaps 25k.... ? 
    ALSO- My suggestion is dont F. around with a rebuild - put a Gen4 engine in it and a composite prop- the composite prop is a fairly good performance gain. 

    You can get 1k for the engine no problem.  The existing engine you have ,you could get another 100 hours out of it most likely with a tony bit of maintenance.  I would suggest pull the heads off, ream/clean the valve guuides out, check tappet clearances and put it back together. If that hasnt been done recently (in the past 200 hours) I think they are time bombs.

     

    There are plenty of Jabiru SKs, LSA55s etc for sale also,  I think they are fine planes and you can get one in a very well cared for conditon for 20k.
    Take Bruce's for sale right now , for example . owner builder, metriculous maintainer.

    The other thing- I wouldnt think too far ahead for a first plane... I think be prepared to get a lower end first plane 

    My first plane I wanted a do-everything plane - so I got a J230, but the reality is, all I really needed  to enjoy my flying was something like a J120, SK, LSA55, etc just to get up in the air, fly 1.5 - 2 hours around the local region.....  

     

    the other thing is, flying different planes is good for your development as a pilot

     

    Glen


     

    Glen,

     

    Appreciate your advice. It has a Gen 4 engine, hence while the TTAF is high, the engine has done only 800hrs. 

     

    There are not much choice in the $25-30k range and instructors may not be willing to fly in other planes if I do get another one from somewhere else. 

     

    Another thing is, my sole purpose of purchasing the Jabiru is to lower My cost in getting my PPL / CPL.  So maintenance and resell are my main concerns. I do plan to hire other planes once in a while for stuff like family trips or take mates up into the sky and etc. 

  9. 5 hours ago, RFguy said:

    Jeff

    J160 is a nice plane for a first plane, they are a speedbird.  30k is a good deal....

     

    while a training plane has been bounced down the runway all its life, it will have been well maintained (or required to have been, anyway) 

     

    Their minimum flying speed is a bit faster than the other jabs like 170/230, but I think its a fine first plane.

     

    How many hours has the airframe got, total time ???? you could be up for teleflex cables , undercarriage bolts, etc if it is very high hour. 
    is it a B or a C ?

    Has it got a wooden or composite prop ?

     

    Rob is right- the Jabiru is very crashworthy. And it will never rust. and they are QUIET inside compared to metal bodied airplanes. Parts are plentiful. Advice is plentiful god and bad. 

     

    The wing and length to tail are well proportioned on that aircraft IMO.  

     

    -glen
    (J230 owner, maintainer) 

     

    TTIS  6600hrs, they put a new engine in it, has done 900 hrs. 

     

    wooden prop, interior is a bit worn but acceptable as it is a 10 yrs old plane. maybe a problem when selling the plane but i'm not worring too much 

     

    personally I like it, but some of the instructors are not very happy..

  10. Background: I am a student, close to get my RPC. I will then get my nav endorsment and progress to PPL at least, maybe CPL.

     

    My school is selling their old Jabiru J160, engien has done close to 1000 hrs, at which time it requires an over haul. It costs around $8k and it will last another 1000 hrs. 25 hrly oil change in between maybe $150 each time. 

     

    After some simple caculation this works well for me. But Ive also heard many bad stories about their service cost and engine reliability. 

     

    Any advice?

  11. 10 minutes ago, Flyingfish said:

    Interesting discussion above.

    I'd support your plan. I started with RPC with passenger and navigation, then went to RPL (with class 2 medical) when it became available to gain access to controlled airspace. Happy at the moment with RPL, and enjoying flying my own two-seat plane. Considering PPL training soon to allow night VFR. Using own plane for training saves on training costs.

     

    I though people who have their own planes would not care so much about training cost 🙂

  12. 15 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

    I just checked my log book and my very first training flight for the PPL was at RVAC on June, 1988. At the time, RVAC's single fleet were all PA28s, mainly Warriors and a 181. My first flight was in JIO, which is still used by club. Also at the club during my time there is MRX (the -181 - affectionally known as Mr X), BZE, and I think TPW (although it may have been there when I last flew there as a non-member in about 2012). The two 152s replaced UPS and UPY, both were involved in fatal accidents (1 near Coldstream and 1, I think a mid-air over or in the Moorabbin circuit). The Seminole may have been there when I was there.. I am single engine only.. they would have used it mainly for IFR and twin training..  There was also an on-line Partnavia at RVAC when I was there. Checking the log book, they finsihed with a few other 15x on the line, but some may well have been cross-hires (where a school will hire to another school if there is more demand at the "another" school).

     

    So yes, there are some older planes there, but as Bosi says, these are fairly standard for GA training (and of course, the Slings are newer). Cessnas and Pipers form the core of general aviation schools worldwide - or at least in the Western world.. with the possible exception of France where I would guess Socata and Robin also have a good look in (and don't forget, Cessnas were also produced in Reims, which were factory corrosion proofed when the US ones weren't). In Europe, where there is a lot of modern aviation manufacturing coming out, we are seeing Slings and AT-3s at GA flying schools (or for GA training), but not as many as you think. Some continetnal schools also have Tecnams in their GA training fleet, but most of the modern/later model stuff that is being used for training is for commercial flight schools (think Oxford, FlyJerez, etc).

     

    Also, as MattP says, cost should only be one factor. Forgetting your mission for the moment, I am living testimony that how you click with your instructor is probably the most important (so instructor continuity may be best as well). When I started flying again in the UK after a long break, I thought, "Hey, I know how to fly and am just blowig off the cobwebs", so I foudn the cheapest school and my instructor and I just could not communicate that well. After about 6 weeks, my confidence slumped, my flying was terrible and I was about to chuck it in thinking I have forgotten how to fly and can no longer learn... It culminated in a big row between himself and myself as I was obviously irritating him, and he me. When I got home, I told the wife I was hanging up the headsets and although she hates flying and hates me flying, she sat down and said she noticed I would come home visibily angry, something she never saw before and that maybe I should try somewhere else. A few weeks alter, with the right instructor, I was ready for the solo cross country qualifier and to take the test (unf, it would be months before I could because of weather).

     

    Next, for me wouold be what the school is like - particularly, how confident are you of their maintenance, their staff, their procedures, etc. I picked RVAC after looking at a lot of schools at Moorabbin, Essendon, Melton, Lilydale, Romsey, Baccus Marsh (it's where TVSA, who are now in Moorabbin, started). I did a lot of TIFs, which I recommend because not only do you get to check out different instruction styles, it gives you the chance to build a framework/some experience to make a comparison about what works for you as well as how good the school is (e.g. do they rush through the checks or take their time and are thorough), etc. I settled on RVAC for my reasons... I am not saying they were  better or worse than anyone else.

     

    On the question of RPC --> RPL --> PPL.. that is one of cost, preference, and mission.

     

    On cost, the RPC route is going to be the cheapest. But, take into account the instructor and the school and whether it is right for you. One advantage though is that LSAs, althrough conceptually the same have slightly different characteristics and of course, when learning, you should stick to the same type, but if you know you will go to, say PPL, by the time you get there (and to a point where you sound you will be ready to take the pax you anticipate), you will have flown different types with different characteristics which may be beneficial in the longer run. So,  it will be cheaper, and also give you more varied training by the time you get to the PPL.

     

    From your mission, I am guessing more than one pax but cross-coutry can be anything from Moorrabbin to Lilydale to Moorabbin to, well anywhere (but for discussions sake, let's say Mildura). An LSA is equally capable for both (assuming enough number of seats), but I think two elderly parents going to Mildura would feel more comfy in a GA type - generally - but not always... If you want to go to Mildura, you want to be able to cross that Class C over Tulla, maybe route overhad Tulla, so talking to Melbourne, Tullamarine; and Mildura. You may want to get an instrument rating (is there a recreational instrurment rating in Aus).. to maximise your chances of getting home shoudl the weather not be so great. I think you have to be PPL rated and fly only GA planes for IFR (you can fly IFR with permit/LSAs in the UK - so I may be wring as I am going off 30 year old Aus Air law). I don't see a RPL (which sounds like the old RPPL, except you can bolt on endorsements) would be of any great use nor save you any  money.

     

    Cut a long story short..

    - Get a school and instructor you like and click with.

    - I would recommend RPC --> PPL from your mission and my assumptions; and it would give you varied training.

    - If it costs more, it will take longer - it's a hobby (at the moment) and you don't sound like you're in your 50's yet.

    - Don't pretend the tram is a plane while driving (when waitign at the end of a route to turn around, try not to make "neeeeooooowwww" noises)!

     

    [Edit]

    Airsports Flying School at Riddells Creek may have somethign for you. I have no idea about them and their website is a little on the amateur side as well as don't give hourly rates, but they should be easy to get to from the west with the Ring Road and freeways... May be worth a shot.. https://www.airsports.net/

     

    Cannot thank you enough. 

     

    I understand the differences of learning in GA planes or small sport planes are like learning to drive in a Golf or 30 yrs old Kenworth. 

     

    Basic concepts such as road rules, steering and gear changing are similar so it make sense to start with a Golf. 

     

    Plus, it does not cost much for a RPC - RPL conversion, the latter one gives me more freedom in choosing planes and taking pax.

     

    So I think the road for me will be RPC - numerous ratings - RPL (start having fun with families) - PPL (in the future) - CPL (maybe)

     

    I will check the schools you mentioned hopefully find one suits me. 

  13. 4 hours ago, Bosi72 said:

    Yes and no. 

     

    Their latest 2 Slings are from 2017, however the rest are quite old, as same as many other GA schools elsewhere.

     

    Don't be misled by age of GA aircrafts. All these new generation aircrafts are made with cost savings in mind (same as cars, tv's, etc..), so whilst there are improvements, there are also corner cuts.

     

    You can find the latest glass cockpit aircrafts in CAE Oxford, but they only accept full-time students $$$.

     

    Pricing at RVAC is what you see on their website. Pick the aircraft for hire, then select Dual vfr. You can deduct $10 if you join the club.

     

    Training at every school is based on competency, so it doesn't mean you will get your licence after 25 hours prescribed by Casa as >minimum<.

     

    Regarding location, if your goal is aviation career, Moorabbin may be a better option due to exposure to controlled airspace, busy (hectic) environment, but you will be burning money on the ground whilst waiting for clearances. 

     

    If your goal is recreation/hobby, then Lilydale, Tyabb, Tooradin may be a better option, providing driving to and back from aerodrome is not an issue. 

     

    When I checked >dual< pricing last year, they were all similar for the same aircraft type, so I picked Moorabbin as closest to my home, and didn't regret at all.

     

    Cheers

     

     

     

     

     

    Appreciate the info. 

     

    It is a bit complicated for me as I have not decided whether to pursue a career in aviation, and even if I do, I will do it more on a casual side, things like piloting small sightseeing planes, fly for advertisement and ect. 

     

    I have worked in travel industry for the last 5 yrs,  had a promising career and just started my own touring business when the whole Covid thing hit here. I am lucky enough to get a job driving tram. Lots of time in the cockpit and I think I'd better get ready for the surge in industry when everything goes back. 

     

    Flying has always been my dream so it won't hurt if I decided not to proceed to CPL. 

     

    Anyway the first step is getting my RPC. Not sure when the regional and metro Melbourne restriction will be lifted so schools in metro area will be my choice. Might go to Lilydale to see them in person and decide. 

    • Like 1
  14. On 16/10/2020 at 8:19 AM, SGM said:

    I fly at Lilydale on the east of Melbourne... $120/hr midweek in a Jabiru.

     

    https://www.lilydaleairport.com.au/about-us/yarra-valley-aviation-our-fleet

     

    Best part is the friendly country feel.. chatting in the hangars, a few social activities, getting a free ride with someone who is doing a daytrip.  They are also doing weekly online seminars (apparently recorded on their facebook channel - Lilydale Flying School)

     

    They look pretty good, and rates really attractive, lowest I see in the metro area. pity there is nothing similar in the west. the cheapest i can find here charges $256/hr for dual, and 195 for solo, for a TECNAM Eaglet

     

    not sure if they are willing to haggle given the current situation. 

  15. 2 hours ago, SGM said:

    Yes, my understanding is eall ndorsements on RPC carry forward to RPL.  I am currently RPC, with PAX and working towards XCountry.  The process convert to RPL (I'm told) is get an ASIC, a Basic Class 2 medical (up to 1 PAX) or Class 2 medical (2+ PAX), fill in a webform, and then when CASA issues a licence you do a type familiarisation flight test in a GA aircraft.

    I might go this path because the Jabirus I learnt in aren't available to rent for weekends away, and hence this it opens up more aircraft like a C150 or Tomahawk etc.  !Looking to buy a good one if anyone knows of any!)

    Hey thanks for the info, that's great news. 

     

    I am also wondering, once you get your RPL, is it better to do those many endorsements (pax, navigation, etc), or go towards PPL? 

  16. 7 minutes ago, APenNameAndThatA said:

    I think that you might be mixing up RPL with RPC. RA-Aus give people *certificates* so they can fly LSA's. RPL is a licence, issued by CASA, that allows you to fly a GA aircraft, but still with only one passenger. I think that if things go well, going from RPC, to RPL to PPL will be cheaper than starting with RPL and then going to a PPL. 

    I think you are correct, RPC training use light aircrafts so it is cheaper than RPL which use old GA from day 1. 

     

    In regards to all the other endorsements (radio, Navs, Controlled aerodrome and Controlled airspace), are training towards those in RA-Aus system equivalent with those in CASA system, meaning if I have such endors attached to my RPC, can I have the same endors attached to my RPL while I apply for the conversion?

     

     

  17. Hey guys Im new here. Looking to get a PPL in the end but I think it'd be better to get a RPL first then move towards a PPL slowly. 

     

    Then I come across the RPC thing. From what Ive learnt from the internet the  courses for RA-Aus issued RPC use light sport aircraft, while CASA issued RPL ones use general  aviation aircraft, which cost more to buy and fly. Thus RPC cost around $7000 to get and RPL cost $13000, without any endorsement. 

     

    So, is it a cost effective way to get my RPC then pay a few hundreds for a conversion, comparing to go straight for RPL?

     

    Also, if I just want to take a few family members do a cross country trip, does RPL+nav endors enough? or do I have to get my PPL?

     

    Thanks in advance. 

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