My GA training

I've been asked by a few about how my GA conversion is going - so I thought I should start a thread listing my progress.

Day 1

Rock up at ADFA (Aerodynamic flight Academy) at Caboolture Saturday morning (3rd July). And met up with one of my Instructors for the first time (Natasha). Was instantly at ease with her style - A Kiwi btw!

We went through and discussed what I want and what I've done etc etc... and was soon out pre-flighting the Cessna 172. Nothing really new there and all pretty standard stuff.

Bundled in and got set up, and spent a few minutes going over where everything was, and learning how the ancient looking radio's work...

Primed up the fuel, and eventually the Lyc realized that our intention certainly was for it to run, so the procrastinating bit stopped and it started.

Warmed up and taxied off to our runway, doing the runups (pretty much all the same). And pre-take off checks, lined up and power in. Was surprised I didn't need much, if any at all rudder on take off. Another surprising thing is all you now see is the dashboard and nothing much else other than blue...!

Headed out to Bribie Island and climbed to 3000ft, HASEL checks etc and power off for the first of a bout of stalls, power, flapped, clean, stalls, all pretty standard stuff, all is happy there. Steep turns... nothing much happens there either. All good. Then she goes and pulls the mixture out on me! Ok, no engine, Landing spot over there, run through the analyses checks together, pretend mayday call etc... we fly around for a bit trying to loose height and I eventually had us on final for my landing spot, going to overshoot a tad, so put a side slip on, very nice was what I was told... ok that's good, power back on and climb to 500ft and headed over to a low level flying area, where we dropped down to 100ft and did some low flying, slowed up a bit and some turns both ways, power/speed management etc...

Climbed back up to 1500ft and made an inbound Caboolture call including my eta to which she responded with, ''very nice''.

Joined circuit and set us up for my very first landing in this Cessna, hit some major sink on final so a bit of power to maintain height, flared and made my first landing, was firm but we were both happy, took off and around we went this time everything much better as I'd seen what sort of angles were needed, bit higher on final this time to compensate for the sink, (noticed she only had one finger on the control yoke this time and feet off rudders!) Flared... was ok, but I new I could do better. Around we went and this time on late finals I looked over and she had crossed arms! Absolutely nailed it this time, (If I'm allowed to say so!) hardly felt the wheels touch and everything felt right. Took off again, and she said one more like that and we can go in. Around we went and I managed one not as good as the last, but it was still good she said. Evacuated the runway and went to our tie down position.

De briefed. She said there are a few things that need a bit of attention (I don't think she liked me doing a glide approach ;) ) But she said that with-in the short flight and only 4 landings how much I improved each time was very good, so that was pretty promising to hear.

She left, and I was with Bryan then, sat me BAK exam and got 92% or something, so that was nice. We then went through what I will have to do, like 2hrs IF time (might do some on the sim) and a nav using radio aids. Another lesson on short field take/off landings and some more engine failure stuff. And a few other bits and pieces including a recommendation flight for the test. Will do the CTA as well sometime.

So I'm pretty happy, it's progressing pretty well, still a fair bit to do, but it's done in a very great atmosphere and is fun. I really did have a ball flying with Tash, and Bryan is great fun.

So Hopefully next time we nock over a lot of that. Unfortunately I'm away for 2 weeks, so will be a bit before the next one!

Good on ya Tommo, when you say reccommendation for the test do you mean the GFPT or the actual PPL test?

Good on ya Tommo, when you say reccommendation for the test do you mean the GFPT or the actual PPL test?

I'm just going with the flow at the moment, as I don't really know what is next, I want to do it properly and learn as much as possible, so shortcutting something to be quicker I prefer not to. And Bryan's standard is pretty high, so I'm just leaving it up to him.

I had a lot of fun with them so I don't think I'll be wishing my time shorter - though it does cost a bit!!

My goal is to get both Bryan and Tash into a Drifter sometime.... ;)

Just goes to shw that flying the GA stuff is no more difficult than Ultralight. See if you can get some real instrument or night flight, much better than doing IFR in VFR weather.

Congratulations Tom.

Good on you Tomo- good to get you in the Tecnam for sunset flight too- hope you had a safe trip back.

Nice one Tomo.Told ya its a piece of cake. You dont need a GFPT to go solo.

Just a coupla things, can you slip a 172 with flap out?? And are you sure it was the mixture she pulled on you?

Couldn't answer correctly with the slip thing Merv, I just asked can these things slip, and yes was the answer, mind you it was a pretty mild slip. I believe it isn't recommended, will have to find out next time.

As for the mixture, yes it was... I did look at her funny like and she did put it back in after a bit. Then we just used throttle idle. It took ages from 3000ft to get down, was crazy. The air was so dense we were only descending at about 300ft min.

lol, so it took 10 minutes to glide down from 3000ft.. Thats some dense air mate.:thumb_up:

Merv,

Yes, you can slip Cessnas,and it's in most POH's. Just be sure the fuel isn't really low or you might just uncover a tank outlet.

As to whether you can slip them with flaps extended - yes, I've taught it for 25 years, and never experienced the mythical 'pitch down' upon recovery. But, you need to recover with some height under you, (50-100ft?). Whether you should is another question. Some POH's recommend against slips with flaps, and some schools and operators likewise.

With most Cessnas, the limiting control is aileron, (rudder for Cubs). The straight tail, (C180,185), & 'round' tail,(C170), Cessnas slip best as they have better rudder control than the swept tails.

Cessnas usually have enough flap for even short fields. If you need to slip for height loss on final - it's probable that you've misjudged the approach. Nice to know how to do it for emergencies such as forced landings, but not something I'd recommend as standard for mormal flying.

happy days,

Thanx mate...was curious, ive heard its a bit iffy...

cheers

I've heard everything from flaps being forced out of their tracks to dramatic nose dives blamed on side slipping with flap - particularly in Cessna 172s. Personally I'm inclined to go with the POH I have which has the following to say;"Steep slips should be avoided with flaps settings greater than 20deg due to a slight tendency for the elevator to oscillate under certain combinations of airspeed, sideslip angle and centre of gravity loadings". My underlining.

Can't say I've ever noticed any oscillation, but then as poteroo says, the flaps are good anyway and the only time I've slipped with full flap was for a practice forced landing or two.

Thanks guys, all interesting stuff. Mind you it was a mild slip, probably only using about a third of the rudder. And yeah in normal times I would have just gone around, but being a forced landing practice it's nice to know what it can do.

PPL test I'm assuming - as he said I could do some solo circuits next time if need be. Not sure what is involved in getting a GFPT, some don't even get it, but I believe I will need to if I'm going to do some solo stuff.

The PPL training basically involves navigation exercises, and the PPL flight test covers that plus the GFPT stuff again.

rgmwa

Thanks for that Rgmwa, all adding up now to what he told me I had to do. Makes sense.

Thanks Tomo

someone once taught me that when you have full flap in z Cessna you can point the nose very uncomfortably towards the ground and it won't exceed 80kts. A good height lose device!

And as someone has mentioned already if you can do your instruments in the white stuff or at least on a dark night it will give a much more realistic view. Meaning how much the bum can upset what the eye's are seeing, disorientation I think they call it!

Most of all have fun!!!!!!!!!

PPL test

Gooday Tomo I converted to GA about 3 years ago PPl test not to hard but Meteorolgy bit was confuesing. Anyway best of luck don't let the flying school bleed you to much. It should be about 6 hour converition .:thumb_up:

Funny I do about 4hours GA and 250 hours RAA per year. The training was good but sick of CASSA and there Parasite fees.

Yours in flying

Mick

As noted by Spin - it's possible to damage Cessna flaps by mishandling.

The damage you are likely to see on many Cessnas is on the flap tracks - which are likely to be flattened by the rollers. Run your finger along the side of the flap track, and if there is a burred outwards edge on the track where the roller runs - its a likely case of exceeding Vfe too often. Not uncommon in trainers. This results in very large movement of flap - up/dn - when you move it by hand - flaps extended. This slop just increases until the flaps actually 'chatter' - even when just under Vfe.

The real risk is the flap dislodging and jamming as Spin has said, or the track actually cracking at it's mid section.

All of which points to flaps being used as dive-brakes a la Stukas or Helldivers ex WW2.

Instructors play an important role in reducing this damage by teaching students to get the power off and the speed back - before any flap extension. Even when slipping with flaps extended - it's still important to stay below Vfe. Bear in mind that your IAS might be in serious error during a slip and you might be faster than Vfe.

happy days,

The GFPT test involves doing some stalls, steep turns, instrument flying (wearing a hood or masked goggles so you can only see the instrument panel), a practice forced landing and some different types of landings and takeoffs (short field, glide approach etc) plus making any necessary radio calls. A GFPT allows you to fly solo within 10 miles of any airfield and also to and from any training area associated with the airfield, but you can't do any cross-country flying. You don't need a GFPT to do solo circuits. Also, you can't fly more than 3 hours solo or allow more than 30 days to elapse between flights without going up with an instructor.The PPL training basically involves navigation exercises, and the PPL flight test covers that plus the GFPT stuff again.

rgmwa

My understanding was that successful completion of a GFPT allows you to carry passengers (other than instructor) either in the circuit or the training area associated with the airfield.

You don't need a GFPT to poke about in the training area nor flying circuits solo, provided if the flight has been authorised by instructor and less than 3 hrs solo since dual flying, and 30 days recency. I've been doing forced landings and steep turns practice in our training area, yet to do GFPT test. Not intending to sit either, and now moving onto navs as seems like questionable value when in another 20 hrs or so will be ready to sit for PPL test.

Good onya tomo, hope to hear more of your training, I'm learning at ADFA Hervey Bay. Agree with the high panel in the cessna's (done a couple of hrs in a 172Q) but mostly use a piper pa28.:big_grin:

My understanding was that successful completion of a GFPT allows you to carry passengers (other than instructor) either in the circuit or the training area associated with the airfield.You don't need a GFPT to poke about in the training area nor flying circuits solo, provided if the flight has been authorised by instructor and less than 3 hrs solo since dual flying, and 30 days recency. I've been doing forced landings and steep turns practice in our training area, yet to do GFPT test. Not intending to sit either, and now moving onto navs as seems like questionable value when in another 20 hrs or so will be ready to sit for PPL test.

rgmwa

Good Onya Tomo,

A 15 year old who started off in the Drifter with me,has been pilot in command of the 737 for Quantas,for quite a while now.

They need young blokes like you.

All the best to you,

Cheers,

Frank.

Thanks everyone! :thumb_up:

I'm biting at the bit already to do some more... but I better finish off the holiday - one consolation I'm only five minutes from Bundy ;) :big_grin:

Converting

Tomo,

Good to hear your stories. I'll pass on mine.

Met and spoke with GA school in Bacchus Marsh. I had been told they hated RAA. Whether they did or not I found them to be proffessional as you expect a training organisation to be. We discussed the conversion and they stated although I don't need hours they still have to check off competentcies (spelling) which is totally understandable. Estimated about 7 to 10 hours cross.

First lesson, Up to training area, stalls of every type. Climbs, Glides, Steep turns which I found painful but thats another story. Back to circuits and found circuit great, radio fine, not holding off enough.

Second lesson, Circuits and better, Emergency drills, Third lesson circuits and everyone's happy except the doc mucked up my class 1 paper work and I cannot solo. Will start some one hour sim this week and start the Instruments over next couple of hours.

Will not do GFPT as I will do a few hours solo and then start the navs so will not need it. They want three navs from me. Two with them (short ish) then a big one on my own. I'm happy with this as I will do the navs in a 4 seat Piper which means I get to know a new plane. So I'm guessing about 12 hours total.

At the end I will have GA, Time in C152, And Piper. PS sat their BAK and got 76%. It has PPL book questions on it! I was not fussed but overly not impressed with the test as some answers I tend to think were not quite right. From my understanding each school sets their own test. If I had of had them train me then Im sure we would have covered the who test sylibis. PS. Have not started the CTA biso yet. Have been hitting Bob Taites books and the weather is doing my head in. But Im in no rush.

Enough for now.

Jim

Austec Avionics.

For what it is worth, they need (GA), a solo nav 150 nautical miles with 2 landings at different airfields, well that it is what i was told.In the solo nav as a student.This is going from memory, i think.

Yep daz that was mention today! You are correct.

Hi rgmwa just a correction on the GFPT you are right about the solo hours, but you must have 3 landings & 3 take offs within 90 days or you will have to go up with an instructor to be current again. I use to when I was getting close to the 90 days just go & do an hours worth of circuits which give me the 3 take offs & landings saves paying for a 1/2 hour check ride with an instructor.

cheers