petetheprinta Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Hi All, I am purchasing a new J170C at months end, I was wondering what are your thoughts on NECESSARY options (strobes, transponder??) versus what I would like to have options (go fast pin stripes. EFIS??) Cheers Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Pete The only reason to put a transponder in your aircraft is:- 1) You have a PPL with CTA endorsement and will be working controlled airspace 2) you will be doing a lot of work at locations where there is regular RPT traffic, and want to be knind to them... or you dont trust them to keep good visual look out. 3) You have a lot of money Given that the whole ADSB stuff still hasnt reached a conclussion I would be very hesitant to buy a transponder at present and if I had to I'd be want to be damn sure that it was capable of working with likely ADSB impositions (which will be hard to define because they arent defined!!) Strobes, I guess, They do generate a fair bit of EMI and can degrade radio performance so only if you truely believe they will assist someone else in not hiting you. Personally I think a winking landing light is more likely to be of use in preventing someone pulling onto the active as you are late finals In a jab I would be very keen, in preference to those other things, to have EGT and CHT sensors for each cylinder with an instrument taht will log whats happening and alarm at any overtemps, though understand that other than adjust fuel systems and airflows etc on the ground there is no way to modify in the air any parameter displayed short of more or less RPM's and the associated Rich/Lean that provides across all cylinders. There will be others that say "So what, you may know what they are but cant really adjust" on the otherhand you can have no EGT/ CHT instrumentsation and just stick your head in the sand. The 2 cyl or 1 cyl default guages are next to useless and just take up valuable panel space. Moving map GPS with terrain advisories......great and very useful for any significant flight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jake.f Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Well strobes and transponder seem more necessary as they are safety equipment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 I can assure you that a running engine is more essential to safety than a strobe or transponder when your up there. When it stops your carefactor re transponder and strobe and what they can do for you as you go down is virtually non existant!! Its all about the Question I have $500 of wants and $200 to fulfill them so what do I buy. If on the otherhand you had the full$500 available then have it all. (while giving passing thought to useful load degredation with all the extra you add in.) Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Now that it is legal to fly up to 10000' a transpomder will be essential if you venture into E class airspace, which over a lot of the East of Australia starts at 6500'. I think it is a good tool safety wise, but not cheap. A lot of the strobes I see are not much good in daylight. I tend to see the plane before I see the flash of the strobe. Having 4 EGT and CHT will help if you get a malfunction in the engine, Maybe. I would not agree that the one or two CHT gauges are useless. With one gauge you will be able to see if CHT gets too high on climb out, without it you will possibly cook your motor. My opinion is that the most useless gauge is the Vertical Speed Indicator. I have very seldom referred to it in a GA aircraft and never in an RAAAus plane. A good GPS for cross country work, much better than the old Directional Gyro. I would definitely have one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 'Fast Pin Stripes....definitely not....highly dangerous on a Jabiru....you could easily exceed VNE. Alan Marriette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Dunno if it is standard but the Jab landing light is lame, unless they have a proper one by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushpilot Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Must haves = Transponder, strobe, landing light - they all make you more visible in different situations. Also built-in GPS - basic Garmin models are OK. Nice to have = EFIS Any other non-approved add-ons or mods - check with Jabiru first re certification.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetheprinta Posted June 10, 2011 Author Share Posted June 10, 2011 Damn.... I really wanted go fast stripes but looks like a no go. definitely getting Strobes, landing lights, Transponder, (I have a zaon TCAS system I want to put in, not that I need a transponder to do that but like to be seen) GPS I have (Avmap Geopilot Plus 2) CHT and EGT to be determined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Evan. Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Even though I don't venture into controlled airspace, I like the small comfort of the faster commercial aircraft being able to 'see' me on their TCAS when I switch the transponder on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkennard Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 I do like using a transponder, Radar has been good when there is a potential traffic conflict like the other day over Katoomba. I was in Class G and they called me up to say the was another aircraft converging. I like lights as well, if I can be a christmas tree I would since it can be damn hard to spot other aircraft at times. I always use my strobe when approaching aerodromes. I need to learn more about my TCAS, I tend to have a ghost quite often, almost expecting an aircraft to appear under me or next to me. Aren't you supposed to have the transponder over 5000ft anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbleboy Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 A transponder could be your best friend if you find yourself lost or somewhere you didnt intend on being. Im sure the first question air traffic control would ask is do you have one and to Sqawk xxxx. Just one positive in having one! Scotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru Phil Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 If you are considering distance flying, two radios are very comforting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Yep another vote for the transponder if you're going to venture beyond the back paddock. I had the slightly unnerving experience of hearing Brisbane giving my position as unidentified traffic to "Buckshot xx", an F-111 who blasted by, down in the weeds a few minutes later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieselten Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Transponder and calibrated encoder - necessary. Strobes - Necessary. New nuts and longer through-bolts on engine - necessary and don't leave without them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 have to agree, a transponder for safety, up there with an epirb, sure, its helps TCAS equipped aircraft see you, but it also lets radar see you, and they can help if you get into trouble and just inform IFR aircraft that your in the area. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 If I was sure that the transponder was going to be part of the final plan, I wouldn't hestitate, unless all of your flying is local and away from feeder airline ops. Airline cockpits don't have wide angle views and most of our planes are hard to spot. ATC, where RADAR is involved can identify you (if you are talking to them) by going to "standby" (on request) or selecting a discreet frequency, ( less usual).or making a heading change (on request). If you are going for strobes think interference with radio and power drain. Are the LED's a good thing? If so go that way. In any case do an electric load assessment on your aircraft. A good landing light might be considered. Being "visible" is Important. With regard to all the engine readings mentioned, as a general principle, this sorting out should be done at the development stage. You don't want to be fixated on engine temp gauges too much when your attention should be somewhere else. Increasing climb speed is the main tool you have for correcting temp problems, (oil and heads), the rest you can't do much about, while you are up there. They are some use but don't be distracted by them.. It's all a question of priority. The simplest is the best. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I'm with Ultralights above. If you do a lot of milage as I do on a regular occasion, the transponder is a good thing to have. I always squark 1200 on the A/C mode position and it is assuring to look down and see the 'R' flick occasionally, which means somebody somewhere is at least aware that I'm out there, and they also know my altitude. I did have one close encounter with a Virgin 737 as I was skirting the Townsville Class C early one morning, but on retrospect I'm sure he had me on TCAS, and tower probabily had me on radar also. I think he really just came a bit closer to have a look at me, as he was a bit lower than he was cleared, and a bit lower than I expected him to be as he filled the upper portion of the lightwing windscreen with red !.... On another occasion recently as I was skirting Mackay heading for Old Station, the Mackay tower called me just to say Hi, and to check who I was. I was outside of their control area, but close to Mackay. The Queensland Parliment was sitting in Mackay that day, and I'm sure he just wanted to rule me out as somebody who may have had ill intentions. I also find you'll get better handling from centers if you need it, if they've got your transponder on their screen. It is important of course not to fall into the trap of turning everything on, making a few calls and sitting back fat, dumb and happy. All the fancy technology in the world will never replace the need to have a good look out the window for traffic constantly...........This is a good safety related discussion by the way..Thanks to petetheprinta for kicking it off...........................................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 LEDs....I'm pretty sure it was Gundy who had Leds wingtip lights on his new Savannah S at Old Station recently. Just little 6 mil led tips sticking out of the fiberglass. I didn't get to see them work, but I for one would like to hear a lot more about them !.................................................................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetheprinta Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 Thank you all for the input it has helped a great deal in my decision, I will let you know when the new Jab is on its way and what I decided on :wales: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J170 Owner Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Hi All,I am purchasing a new J170C at months end, I was wondering what are your thoughts on NECESSARY options (strobes, transponder??) versus what I would like to have options (go fast pin stripes. EFIS??) Cheers Pete Howdy. Make sure you get that connector on the plane so you can jump start without taking off the cowling, just in case of a flat battery. Personally I would prefer a strobe light, although the cost is a rip off. TCAS will only work with folks that have it (how many do) and if you are tangling with jets then you're probably where you shouldn't be. Cheers and beers Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Evan. Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 There's a TBM 700 that flies from our aerodrome. He has TCAS. He can move very fast. I like that he can see me before I can see him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Electric T&B. Handy for limited pannel back up if in "reduced visibility" I know this will not happen but I put one in just in case. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 So this is where people have to understand the technology to some extent to then understand whether something like the Zaon PCAS system will be on any use to you at all. So, Transponders only react to an interogation No interogation = No transponder activity. Interogations are primarily sent by Ground Radar operated by airspace controllers or by true TCAS fitted Aircraft. The Zaon System notes the interogation requests and the responses and trys to build up a 3D plot to determine if you might conflict. Can the Zaon System build an accurate 3D plot.... Yes sometimes where primary radar covers your location. Will it work in the circuit of your remote RAA friendly airport. Sometimes it will, but probably for the majority of times no it wont, where there isnt primary radar coverage, or isnt a TCAS fitted aircraft overflying.... The Zaon gear is entirely passive it doesnt, as I understand it, transmit interogations. ( I think the P in PCAS (should)= passive) To a certain extent thats why I get a bit nervous about peoples almost religious belief that Transaponders are good..... Its a bit like saying Araldite Part B is fantastic...Yes it is when theres an Aradilte Part A in play...without the Part A its something full of promise, but short on delivery. For RAA aircraft, to continue the analogy, Araldite Part A generally exists where CASA doesnt want us to be.... Of course where this analaogy fails is that the existance of the Araldite Part A is binary, its either there, or not, where things like Radar coverage or TCAS fitted aircraft technically is binary, yet in real life and with the instruments we have fitted might or might not be there, with only local knowledge or past experience telling you if it will be where you inetend to operate. Im not saying it hasnt a place, all of the safety gear has a place just that you shouldnt think it in isolation will always do what you want it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 The P in PCAS might well stand for Portable. When looking at the devices I think that P is a bit obvious, yet its the P in Passive that I think is the more important characteristic... With your Question about the Eastern Seaboard, I'll draw another analogy, Telstra and Optus have coverage Maps for their Mobile products. Does a coverage map saving you should have coverage automatically translate to coverage really being available at any particular location? Airborne, At cruise, and at height, yep should be fine on the eastcoast. What height? Sorry you wont get me putting definatives around that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts