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Learning to fly a real aircraft has made me a bad flight-simmer!


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Thanks M61A1,I have tried playing with it in different settings, it seems to work ok in the Cesena 172 config but I was training in a Tecnam P92 and the sim for it seems quite touchy. I think it's made to simulate the fact that the Tecnam is such a light aircraft and can get very twitchy, you get very little response from the rudder with auto off and settings on the max,

In my limited experience as a student pilot, so far, I find that the real planes are much more forgiving than the sims.
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In my limited experience as a student pilot, so far, I find that the real planes are much more forgiving than the sims.

Spot on Nightmare,

 

I found that I was over flying the real aircraft , not letting it settle to the way it was trimmed.

 

Now sims annoy me a bit as you have to be on the ball or the plane soon gets away from you.

 

They certainly keep you on your toes and make your concentration sharper,

 

cheer's Butch

 

 

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I noticed one big difference with sims vs the real thing on my last lesson. My instructor was teaching me how to set the plane up for an approach descent in the Tecnam P92, power to idle, when the speed reaches the white arc, flaps to 15', trim nose up all the way, and let it settle. The plane then naturally goes into a perfect approach descent at 65 kts. I did exactly the same in 2 sims, FSX and X-Plane 10 and the speed continues to drop past 65 kts to stall... too much travel in the trim in the sims, I'm thinking. In the the sim, you have to stop the trimming when you reach 65kts.

 

 

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I have to admit that the sims have helped me in my progress in my flight training. I had purchased a Saitek yoke, throttle quadrant, trim wheel, and foot pedals about 6 months before I started my flight training. Getting used to the pedals has helped me greatly retraining my co-ordination, making my taxi skills good from the outset of my training, and I was used to balancing the aircraft when in the air.

 

The yoke was a bit of a waste at the moment as my training aircraft has a joystick, I have a joystick as well so no probs. I configure and place the equipment I have to resemble the aircraft I'm flying, setting and positioning the switches and controls in the approximate position they would be in the real plane. This actually helps. I read up on the up coming lesson material, and practice it on the sim until I understand it. Of course you don't feel the forces on the stick and the pedal that you do on the real plane, but it still helps.

 

 

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When you get a full motion wide vision dedicated type simulator what I would call "fidelity" is of a high order. Stick feel, speeds, accelerations, configuration trim changes etc all are right on the actual aircraft. You can literally get into a plane you have never seen and fly it. This is a "conversion" to a new type though and you have all the basic skills of flying behind you so it's assumed you know how to fly. You have also spent around 25 + hours of planned training in the sim as well.

 

As to the original thread, I agree IF you have been flying a heavy schedule and a lot of "stick" time right up to a day or so before you won't do your best sim,( hand flying) effort.

 

Why? Because the seat of the pants feel is not there. The subtle "clues" that help you to know what an aeroplane is doing, are absent, and you have been using then in a familiar situation a lot in the lead-up to the sim session.

 

The simpler a sim is the cruder it is. Sim instructors can make them do anything by just tweaking the little inputs to " Play Zee Game". There will always be a difference, Simulators aren't aeroplanes, but simulators save lives. and are great for procedures, even the cheap ones.

 

I wouldn't get too worried about how THEY handle. You get what you pay for.. Nev

 

 

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I hardly ever fly the flight sim now. I made a Corby Starlet on X Plane and it flew just like the real thing, but I couldnt take off without going through the fence. No rudder pedals. Landing was touch and go every time and I don't mean the aviation touch and go. It would be nice to try a full action simulator, but they are a long way from here and flying the real thing would be cheaper as well as more fun.

 

 

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In my limited experience as a student pilot, so far, I find that the real planes are much more forgiving than the sims.

Not when it comes to pranging 043_duck_for_cover.gif.77707e15ee173cd2f19de72f97e5ca3b.gif

 

 

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No, I don't really want to learn that one by experience and have been fortunate enough to have avoided it so far:duck for cover:

 

 

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  • 1 year later...

G'day fellow simmers, just my five cents worth...

 

I wrote flightsim articles for all the major Oz GA magazines for many years and have developed a comprehensive library of software, teaming it with state of the art hardware - my video card cost $800 and will run 6 monitors...

 

I won't get into the discussion on whether flightsimming helps (or not) with real world flying - everyone reacts differently so everyone has a different outlook on the process.

 

Realism is obviously the key to a 'realistic' result, and as you would expect, you just can't get that with the standard sims - you have to pay for both software and hardware, and when you do that you get a magnificent toy.

 

Developers like Anthony (Ants Airplanes) produce a brilliant product that is exceptional value - he used my aircraft (0455) for his development of the Drifter for FSX (which is why you will see moi at the controls in my red helmet!)

 

When he was working on the Drifter I would fly 0455 to Boonah (which he has done as freeware, along with Roadvale, 6nm to the north) and fly a perfect circuit, and make a note of heights and touchdown point. I would then go home and fly the same thing on the sim and check to see if there was any difference - if so, I would email him and he would make adjustments and I would check it again, until we got it pretty well spot on. That is why Ants Drifter behaves a lot like the real thing, even down to being able to sideslip the lil baby - most default (and some payware) aircraft won't sideslip because of the amount of time needed for the developer to make the changes needed to allow that to happen.

 

Scenery add-ons are a must-have, particularly if you are going to practice navexs - when I was planning a trip from Boonah to Lismore to get some work done on 0455 by the sadly missed Wayne Fisher, I flew the trip with the sim quite a few times, matching the terrain and landmarks with the aviation map on the desk beside me. With Orbx software, the matching was surprisingly good - when I flew the actual course, the amount of identical features was very reassuring.

 

Someone earlier on mentioned the head tracker gadget - that would have to be second on the list after a good HOTAS joystick/throttle combo for realism. Add a second monitor (little ones are as cheap as) and you can transfer all your radios, GPS and autopilot across so you have all that stuff away from your cockpit view. Rudder pedals are a must, and the HOTAS system will mean your keyboard keystrokes will be minimal.

 

Cheers for now, and Happy New Year!

 

BP

 

PS

 

If you haven't got Ants freeware Boonah Airport on your sim you are missing out on a real cracker, there are guys working on their gliders, skippys munching on grass, and chicks hanging out for a fly outside the Flying Tigers clubhouse...all moving.

 

 

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Early in 2015, I was faced with a choice: put money into a very decent sim, or learn to fly for real and eventually get my own plane. Well, I chose the later, of course, completed my certificate, xc etc, now looking to get that plane.

 

I know what you mean about using a sim for xc flights, I have done that myself before a flight.

 

On the whole though, since I started flying for real, the poor ol' flightsim has been a bit neglected...

 

 

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Hi All,

 

Well Santa was good to me this year, So I have upgraded my Home Sim a little more........

 

X-Plane 11, YRED, Tecnam P92

 

Brent 003_cheezy_grin.gif.c5a94fc2937f61b556d8146a1bc97ef8.gif

 

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Hi all, I thought I'd throw my 2 bobs worth in. I found fltsim to be invaluable, not for the flying experience as much as learning to use the rudder pedals. As a kid growing up in the 60's I built a few go carts to race down the hill and.......another lesson is learned......you need brakes to be able to make the turn before you end up a stain on the neighbors fence. Anyway the carts I built were very basic, feet steering....left foot down to go right and so on. When I was learning to fly there were a few elevated heart rates on landing a couple of times so I thought somehow I have to un-learn the go cart steering.

 

It has been quite a challenge but the flight sim pedals have helped enormously. I try and shoot a few circuits every few weeks on the sim to keep the grey matter from slipping back into its comfort zone.

 

I'd much rather be doing circuits for real but who can afford that. 080_plane.gif.36548049f8f1bc4c332462aa4f981ffb.gif

 

 

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Hi All,Well Santa was good to me this year, So I have upgraded my Home Sim a little more........

 

X-Plane 11, YRED, Tecnam P92

 

Brent 003_cheezy_grin.gif.c5a94fc2937f61b556d8146a1bc97ef8.gif

 

[ATTACH]47495[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]47496[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]47497[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]47498[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]47500[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]47501[/ATTACH]

Nice, but it still doesn't canpare to the real thing, does it? BTW, Happy new year Brent! haven't seen you on here for a while

 

Tony

 

 

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I spent an hour in a A320 sim in Melbourne a few years ago. I managed take-off OK and could fly it but managed to crash land every time. There is just no feel to the things. I admit to being a dinosaur when it comes to computers but it makes me worry about many of the new airline pilots who do very little real flying and get many of their hours up in Sims. Greg.

I tried out the 737 full-size sim at the Gold Coast as a precursor to an article in one of the Oz GA magazines - took off from the new HK airport, did a 180 on climb and set up for a landing into Kai Tak. Wasn't the best landing I've ever done there but all those landings with my own system (in everything from F-111s to 747s) helped out - the sim didn't reject my landing as a crash, but my instructor said that it was borderline...he also said the average non-sim pilot who tried that approach would not have had a hope in Hell of getting the 737 on the ground in one piece.

 

BP

 

 

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Hi All,Well Santa was good to me this year, So I have upgraded my Home Sim a little more........

 

X-Plane 11, YRED, Tecnam P92

 

Brent 003_cheezy_grin.gif.c5a94fc2937f61b556d8146a1bc97ef8.gif

 

[ATTACH]47495[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]47496[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]47497[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]47498[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]47500[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]47501[/ATTACH]

Hey Brent, very nice setup and I would love to have a crack at that one day - having said that, I can reciprocate by offering you some time in the back seat of my Drifter around the Scenic Rim - deal?

 

The said Drifter (I do hope you are flying 0455 on your system) is currently having an engine swap and some electronics additions/alterations, but it won't be long before she's slipping the surly bonds again

 

cheers

 

BP

 

PS

 

ah - just saw that you use X-Plane...as far as I know, the Drifter is FSX only

 

 

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Nice, but it still doesn't canpare to the real thing, does it?BTW, Happy new year Brent! haven't seen you on here for a while

 

Tony

Thanks, Tony, Happy New Year to You as well,

 

I also do prefer the real thing, Yes have been away for a bit, OS trip took a hit to my Real World Flying Fund, so was grounded for a while, but was good to get away with the missus, taking a step back from flying was just the ticket, now reinvigorated and ready to jump back into the real Tecnam, renewed my membership, restarted my lessons, had one a couple of weeks ago, my best yet, it was a hoot, have one booked this fri, Emergencies & Precuations in the Circuit

 

Brent 003_cheezy_grin.gif.c5a94fc2937f61b556d8146a1bc97ef8.gif

 

 

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I suck on flight sim, I don't suck quite so much in the real aircraft!Or is it the other way round?033_scratching_head.gif.b541836ec2811b6655a8e435f4c1b53a.gif

Probably half your passengers have other things on their mind, the other half are probably suffering from getmethereitis. Hopefully you get a few "thanks" too.

 

 

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