Floatplane Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 My advice is get an aviation lawyer ready, accidents like this bring out law suits. When public are involved unfortunately and this sort of accident will bring $$$$$ chasers out. Flying is fun, but FP Until we know the actual details this can only be described as a very unfortunate if spectacular accident. I know Paul and he is a very conscientious and safety orientated pilot. He is a family man and was very upset at the fact that there were children involved. I don't think that speculation as to what he should have done or what he did wrong is helpful. I am sure it will take him some time to get though this trauma and sincerely hope that this does not dampen his love of flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 No one was killed or injured here FP, so the lawyers would be left with pain and suffering, hard going for them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I wonder if he just left the flaps down by mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Brings back memories from many moons ago, when I took the misses and two kids to Australia's Wonderland and was not keen too go on the Bush-Beast roller coaster ride.The following morning I had a flying lesson out of Bankstown and did my first stalls , plus, was shown what happens if you slow a Warrier, and in stages increase to full-flap, then see what happens if you throw the flap lever to the floor, rather than let it off one stage at at a time. Mark if your still teaching prospective airline pilots and wearing that long scarf, Accubra hat and silly RAF type moustache , I still think your parents were un-married. But I have since washed my undies. I know who you are referring to. I used to maintain some of those Warriors. Back to the fairground ride. I was expecting the pilots name to be Grahem not Paul. Reminds me a little of that movie "1942". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I have been in touch with Garry Morgan who saw the whole thing. Paul didn't see the Ferris Wheel & would have missed it if he had not drifted to the left climbing out. The U/C caught the wires of the wheel. Apart from the wings, the fuselage is in good shape & the crane did more damage than the initial impact. Garry says it will fly again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 If the old adage about any publicity being good publicity applies..."those Morgans, they're sure built tough"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkennard Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Besides thinking of a fly in a spider web, I was taught to fly the deadside on a go around. I wouldn't consider that on parallel runway though or a towered aerodrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatplane Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Ok, but listed in NAIPS? Interesting but as you said, it's users responsibility which goes without saying really to any aerodrome be it ALA or otherwise. FP Isaac, post: 179973"]FP incorrect , read my post #60: Old Bar is an ALA (Aeroplane Landing Area) which is actually Heritage Listed, no notams are issued. I have used it, it is a great strip, but many pilots land too far in. Leaving a go around till late is problematic. On any ALA the pilot is responsible to ensure: He has permission to use the strip The strip is safe to use The strip is adequate for the performance of the aircraft he intends to use The effect of any obstructions in terms of clearance and displaced threshold and the impact of this on his aircrafts ability to meet the performance requirements to use the strip safely. Down wind is pure speculation. Old Bar is a short grass strip to people used to landing on longer strips. It was a late go around from a baulked landing, that is why he was low. If he had stayed on the centre line he would have missed the Ferris Wheel, and correct FP the PIC is ultimately responsible. It was a mistake made my many, this is NOT a blame session, this should be a learning session ... make your go around decisions early. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatplane Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 You'll see trust me, it's unfortunately called "human nature" just a quick glance you'll have damages for "loss of income" from wheel operator, another could be "stress" from the poor soles (patrons) sitting up there for hours wondering! Sorry, seen all this before unfortunately FP No one was killed or injured here FP, so the lawyers would be left with pain and suffering, hard going for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I was taught to fly the deadside on a go around. I wouldn't consider that on parallel runway though or a towered aerodrome. What about where there are contra circuits? Do you (collective) move the opposite way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redflags Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Hi Dave, I actually agree with floaty, not about the ALA part (mind you, I have checked the ASA site, and it is mentioned there) but I suspect a downwind approach going by reports, however either way 'not realizing' a ferris wheel was there! must be kidding me! That's why one does 3 legs of a circuit to gather info just like that (part of the reason) BTW the passenger said on channel 7 "we couldn't climb" after the go-around so he either didn't have enough power or retracted flap way too early or downdraft from hills behind/and beside him or overweight or it was a downwind landing! Either way, bad choice so I guess in a sad sort of way a 'finger has already been pointed' unfortunately. FP wasn't pointing the finger just stating (like me) the obvious from 'previous reports' I do agree with him about 'possible law suits' because I for one, if that was my business which has been heavily damaged no matter how or why's, I'd be suing not to mention 'some bystanders thinking quick $$$$$' This is where lawyers make their money unfortunately. Redflags FP incorrect , read my post #60:Old Bar is an ALA (Aeroplane Landing Area) which is actually Heritage Listed, no notams are issued. I have used it, it is a great strip, but many pilots land too far in. Leaving a go around till late is problematic. On any ALA the pilot is responsible to ensure: He has permission to use the strip The strip is safe to use The strip is adequate for the performance of the aircraft he intends to use The effect of any obstructions in terms of clearance and displaced threshold and the impact of this on his aircrafts ability to meet the performance requirements to use the strip safely. Down wind is pure speculation. Old Bar is a short grass strip to people used to landing on longer strips. It was a late go around from a baulked landing, that is why he was low. If he had stayed on the centre line he would have missed the Ferris Wheel, and correct FP the PIC is ultimately responsible. It was a mistake made my many, this is NOT a blame session, this should be a learning session ... make your go around decisions early. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Fortunately we aren't like the US legal jurisdictions and Turbo is quite correct, aside from the wheel owner/operator who will have a claim for the repairs to, or pre-incident value of the wheel, along with his direct financial losses for the period he will be without it, there isn't much to interest the solicitors here. They much prefer something where there is an undeniable injury of some description, preferably in circumstances less well documented than this was. Mental anguish on the part of the two kids and possibly their mother isn't nearly as attractive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 If the old adage about any publicity being good publicity applies..."those Morgans, they're sure built tough"! I couldn't help but notice on the news it was powered by a Jabiru! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 ...and painted with Dulux? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackay777 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Perhaps we should close all roads, there a to many car accident's :score003: on our roads! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I couldn't help but notice on the news it was powered by a Jabiru! And had 4 ply tires...all of the above had sweet FA to do with this accident. I notice the last 2 fatal RAA accidents were in aircraft powered by rotax's. The worst air disaster in history involved Rolls royce powered jumbo's. The relevance of which is diddly when talking about human factor related accidents. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkennard Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 So I take it a go around on the dead side isn't preferable unless of course you are going around because the runway is occupied or not cleared sufficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sseeker Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 You were taught to move to the right of the strip to keep the runway in sight ????....Huh..........I like most students was taught to track the center line !..................................................Maj... It's correct procedure to move to the *dead side* of the strip whilst conducting a go around except at aerodromes that have parallel runways. PPRUNE Link: http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/465127-pilots-little-too-involved-festival.html On another note, people are asking how he didn't see the ferris wheel... He probably did see it, possibly hit the runway and realised it wasn't gonna be a perfect landing and powered on for a go around... Poor judgement and focusing on the go around probably lead to the crash. We probably should wait for his story before jumping to conclusions? -Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 ...and painted with Dulux? pretty sure the Dulux paint did its job. And had 4 ply tires...all of the above had sweet FA to do with this accident.I notice the last 2 fatal RAA accidents were in aircraft powered by rotax's. The worst air disaster in history involved Rolls royce powered jumbo's. The relevance of which is diddly when talking about human factor related accidents. I wasn't saying the engine failed or that the tyres failed, tyres looked OK btw, still black, still round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 pretty sure the Dulux paint did its job.I wasn't saying the engine failed or that the tyres failed, tyres looked OK btw, still black, still round. No second prizes F_T, what were you saying then, why did the Jabiru name come up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I couldn't identify the plane but I have seen a lot of jabiru engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redflags Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 There you go :-) Redflags I couldn't help but notice on the news it was powered by a Jabiru! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Carby heat hot? Power goes down the drain with that on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pookemon Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 The Age seems to think it was on landing -though the quote from a witness, and the event organiser doesn't actually make it clear. http://www.theage.com.au/national/ultralight-pilot-landed-too-short-20111002-1l3k0.html However there's a saying (which can be applied to any Newspaper). "Is your opinion based on fact or did you read it in (The Age/<Insert Newspaper name here>)". Because according to The Age, the RAA represents flying clubs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 This was a go around decision left late on a short grass strip with not much horsepower (4 cyl Jabiru engine). The cross wind, late go around low wing, high nose attitude, struggling to climb all contributed to the accident. The Pilot (Paul) said on National news tonight he just did not see the Ferris wheel and suddenly stopped in mid air. This must have scared the ... out of him, he was very emotional about the fact there were children above him in the Ferris wheel. David Isaac is on the money. Garry said he landed long & decided to go round. It's a short grass strip. The Jab 2200 motor is good but won't make the Sierra climb at 1000 fpm 2 up with full fuel like the 3300 will. It was the drift to the left into the path of the Ferris Wheel that he didn't see that ultimately led to the crash. If the centre line had been maintained this thread would not exist. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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