flyerme Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Hey every one, whilst running some ground test yesterday I exspierienced the loss of contriol Ive have read about in both private and Tony Hayes writtings on the Thruster. I have found no reference on why this happens but I m alomost certain I know why this happens..O k first lets look at the insedent: Condition: calm, on off 3 knott cross wind. Strip: very narrow(20ft wide) with 1ft high bank either side full of rocks and boulder as runway has been graded into lime rock so NOTE their is no room for error must stay pretty strieght down the strip.(no probs normally) Aircraft: Thruster t83 new adition and have never flown this or anyother thruster. .I had performed a number of low to medium speed taxi tests with no problems, after 20 mins I increased the power to around 3/4 and pushed the stick slightly forward and let the tail raise for around 25 - 50 mtrs before de-cellerating and pulling the stick back to settle the tail wheel and contiue a strieght taxi.At this stage all good and feeling conferdent. For the next taxi test as planned I would open full throttle let the tail raise taxi at high speed with forward stick ,when approch stall speed(aka lift speed) I would de-cellerate and roll out ..No worries!!!! Insedent: As full throttle was applied the tail rose instantly and the little beast took off down the strip with an allmighty roar. I only rolled for about 25 meters when the bumpy runway become completly smooth...Oh shit I thought (,as we all do at this point) I still had the wheels on the ground but was starting to float in ground afect ..so I instantly closed the throttle and then she spun to the left....with full right rudder (im pretty sure my foot went threw the floor of the pod..lol) applied nothing happened, no time to plant the tail just ploughed into the inbankment in a slight right hand skid as the nose ploghed into the ground I tried to kill the engine (PROPELLER ...OH CRAP I THOUGHT THERE GOES ME BROLGA).. but as the tail rose to about 75 deg and im now staring at the ground she fell back down..ever so softly...ah thank f*&^... for the high engine mount.. Conclusion: after a thourough inspection and plane deemened all OK i ran some more test to work out waht happened and descovered (Guessing this is proberbly all ready known?) that what happens is the following: as the airflow gains speed it gets to a point where the tail plane has sufficiant airflow for lift IE.. the tails up in the air but not enough airspeed for Rudder control... So in the begining the air speed was good for steering on the tail wheel and then tranferred to rudder as the tail rose all ok,, but as I decreased power completly with the high amount of drag, the plane instantly lost enough air speed for rudder controll and as I had the stick slightly forward tha tail up in the air I also did NOT have tail wheel control either.Hence a total loss of controll. REMEDY: pull the stick back whilst clossing the throttle to bring the tail wheel back to earth for some steering controll.. Know has any one else had this problem and does that sound right or is thier somthingwrong with the plane or am I doing wrong?. and more the point is this going to happen after touch down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Good report flyerme, I'm sure the Thruster/Tail Wheel guys will be able to help you on this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 It's really a thruster doing what thrusters do. You've got a high thrustline and without the fan blowing air over the rudder it sometimes doesn't do much for directional authority. I personally wouldn't fly one from the strip you describe, till you are very familiar with it. It's too narrow.. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudestcon Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 My experience, and it's not much, says you must always be vigilant when on the ground in a Thruster - any correction must happen almost before it is needed (anticipation) because the situation will quickly become out of control if you don't catch it straight away. Practise being on the pedals all the time, and use many small inputs rather than large infrequent ones. I can still hear my instructors words coming through the headphones - "Pud, you are lazy on the rudder so concentrate", and I do every time. I must say I have had no problems with rudder responsiveness right up to when the tail won't fly any more (even with full forward stick and the throttle at idle) and sits down on the tail wheel. Pud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryc Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hi Flyerme, I've never lost tail control even at very low speed on the ground so I don't think what you describe is typical of thrusters. I suspect it's unfamiliar aircraft that is the problem. Thrusters have little querky responses that can catch you off guard if your not on the ball. Having said that once your've mastered it you never need to think of it again. It would be better for you if you had someone show you these things with a couple of check flights. When I did my conversion for tail wheel in a thruster [ because I own one] my instructor let me go on my merry way until he needed to take over. Without him both our first experiences would have been the same. From there with some help it was quick and easy to pick up and it does become second nature. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hi Guys,went out to the strip early this mourning to widen the strip (spent 9 hours on the shovel and pick and manage to remove rocks and gain an extra 20 ft width for 100 mtrs,only500 mtr to go). will bring the strip to a total of 60 ft wide,thats a 20ft wide strip with 20ft either side for run off. should take me a month or so every day with my shovel and pick..lol hmm dreaming of a tractor... oh well better drain the fuel out me beast could be a while.. p.s spoke to Ed..cfi at Goolwa and he is going to get back to me with a number for a guy from Shepperton who can help with lessons in a thruster... sweet biscuits batman!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 10/10 for your effort flyerme! Sure there isn't a neighbour with a 3PL grader blade with a wheel? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 I wish........I used my neighbours home made 3 point grader origanally but boke it on the last pass..he also is 10 km away and his tractors and ROCK ROLLER(thats what I really want and need ) are too far out on his property ,so I only have 1 option ,thats to first shovel and pick gravel and fill the 6x4,,then un- shovel the trailer of gravel on to the run way.when iv done 2 trailer loads which gets me 6 meters I then shovel a load of bitumen and lay that over the top then roll it with my toyota corolla..lol ...I have finished 170 mtr of the 300 mtr strip ,and today I started the teediest task of removing rock by hand and shoveling the dirt from the bank then use my hand mower to cut the weeds and end up with an extra 20 ft width of dirt/weeds..I manage to get about a 100mtr of 1 side done in 9 hours. ill try and post a pic..but be WARNED my strip is not for the faint hearted...unless you fly models....lmao pics relly dont do justice but any way they show 150 mtrs of unsealed compact bitchumen and 150 mter of runway ready for gravel and bitchumen..no pics of widening yet....I have about 80 mtrs to go and now widen the whole thing so will be a couple months off finishing...ahhhh ....what a way to kill time.....bugger ............yep all by hand ,by myself, just me and my shovel,all alone,,no one but me,,,yep just little ol me...any one getting the hint??? lol take it easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 put some pics for up you It's really a thruster doing what thrusters do. You've got a high thrustline and without the fan blowing air over the rudder it sometimes doesn't do much for directional authority. I personally wouldn't fly one from the strip you describe, till you are very familiar with it. It's too narrow.. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 10/10 for your effort flyerme! Sure there isn't a neighbour with a 3PL grader blade with a wheel? put some pics up of the runway for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hi Flyerme, I've never lost tail control even at very low speed on the ground so I don't think what you describe is typical of thrusters. I suspect it's unfamiliaraircraft that is the problem. Thrusters have little querky responses that can catch you off guard if your not on the ball. Having said that once your've mastered it you never need to think of it again. It would be better for you if you had someone show you these things with a couple of check flights. When I did my conversion for tail wheel in a thruster [ because I own one] my instructor let me go on my merry way until he needed to take over. Without him both our first experiences would have been the same. From there with some help it was quick and easy to pick up and it does become second nature. Good luck. put some pics of the runway up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryc Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 put some pics of the runway up Thanks for the pics, mmmmmmmate your a legend. That's a lot of manual labour, but when a man's on a mission a man's on a mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Looks like you are going to have a great little airstrip there... especially incredible considering the hand tools!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 WHY THANK YOU SIR. Thanks for the pics, mmmmmmmate your a legend. That's a lot of manual labour, but when a man's on a mission a man's on a mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 WHhy thank you Sir...yep on a mission and taking the pain away from a recent loss...lung cancer quote="terryc, post: 180335"]Thanks for the pics, mmmmmmmate your a legend. That's a lot of manual labour, but when a man's on a mission a man's on a mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hope I haven't talked you into a lot of work there flyerme. The rocks at the edge are the scary bit. In the early days airfields didn't have runways/strips. They were all over paddocks. This helps with crosswinds ( you don't have to have them) and some of these older thrusters don't fly as well as they did when new, so something approximating a wide paddock is good. They don't actually need much length to land and take off and grass is the easiest surface to handle. I haven't landed one on a hard surface runway, and I wouldn't particularly look forward to it. Some who have done it may be able to enlighten me there. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudestcon Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Well flyerme, you've certainly got some motivation there and all power (muscle?) to you:big_grin: It looks like the beginnings of an excellent airfield there; just what your Thruster needs eh? All my Thruster landings have been on a sealed runway Nev, so I'm looking forward to the dirt strip at North Gabbin in a few weeks. The sealed runway does appear to be unforgiving and let's you know when you haven't got everything just right - as you'll see in the new video I'm currently working on. Pud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 Well flyerme, you've certainly got some motivation there and all power (muscle?) to you:big_grin: It looks like the beginnings of an excellent airfield there; just what your Thruster needs eh?All my Thruster landings have been on a sealed runway Nev, so I'm looking forward to the dirt strip at North Gabbin in a few weeks. The sealed runway does appear to be unforgiving and let's you know when you haven't got everything just right - as you'll see in the new video I'm currently working on. Pud cool let me know when ya vid is done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Sorry, I can see how the grader blade wouldn't be any good. Good old South Australian spuds. Brilliant job, hope it's helping to take the pain away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suitman Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 All hail the manual labour runway builder! That IS impressive. Peter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Great job buddy,Where exactly is Sherlock SA? I have a son on the Eyre Peninsular. David Thanks David, Sherlock is 30kms sth/est of Tailembend,or 50 mins drive sth/est of Murray Bridge(on the Mallee hwy) take it easy . Pretty wet here at the moment so wont be much shoveling done but perfect for rolling the strip with my corolla....ah so thats why they named co-rolla..yep ill be coroll-ing along today...lol 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 ...yep ill be coroll-ing along today...lol There's a song in there somewhere Looks like damn hard work, but a good result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Excellent work flyerme! Your hand work reminds me when I was in PNG helping to built an airstrip... all by hand, @ 6000ft in the mountains. Except there were a few hundred people, four wheel barrows, some canvas bags, a dozen shovels, and a heap of hand made picks made from timber. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 Wow thats some tuff terrain...nothing like man power no matter how many the hands..impressive... It may be hard work ,but the end result will be very satisfiying knowing I did this with not much more than my 2 hands...Achievment is grand and prepares you for the next challege,what ever it should be...................take it easy and thanks every one for your kind words,may the air support your wings each and every flight and I pastoe good fortune to each and evey one of you... Excellent work flyerme! Your hand work reminds me when I was in PNG helping to built an airstrip... all by hand, @ 6000ft in the mountains. Except there were a few hundred people, four wheel barrows, some canvas bags, a dozen shovels, and a heap of hand made picks made from timber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Tomo dug those channels just in front of the crowd, no one told him it had to be flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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