Guest rocketdriver Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Hi Darky ... give it a go! I did!!.... You will learn things you never even thought of, things that will help you in flying and life even if you never teach one student ... but I bet you will! cheers RD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSarcasm Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 I'm thinking of putting it on hold for a year. I'm just not sure I'm ready, I want to do the best by any students I have and I'm not sure I'm at the level yet. If you had said something such as "I want to teach students what can kill them and how to avoid death by aircraft crash" I assumed that part was obviously implied by the fact I wanted to instruct. That seems an inherent part of the concept of instructing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 It would be a great learning curve I reckon. What sort of aircraft would you be doing it in, and then no doubt training in once you're done? One thing I asked myself when I was considering doing a FI rating was, would I be happy learning from me? Would I feel safe? Would I be confident in my instructor that he IS teaching me the right stuff... it's a highly responsible adventure. A good instructor knows exactly when to step in, allowing you to go astray just enough to learn and correct for yourself. But also keeping the students confidence level up. I've had to teach people how to operate machinery many times, and half the time they are a lot older than myself and so they tend to 'not' listen as they think they know it all already, but then they go and do something completely wrong... like trying to teach someone how to drive a road ranger gear box... I've always wondered how that sort of situation would go in an aircraft when the instructor is younger than the students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 It would be a great learning curve I reckon.What sort of aircraft would you be doing it in, and then no doubt training in once you're done? One thing I asked myself when I was considering doing a FI rating was, would I be happy learning from me? Would I feel safe? Would I be confident in my instructor that he IS teaching me the right stuff... it's a highly responsible adventure. A good instructor knows exactly when to step in, allowing you to go astray just enough to learn and correct for yourself. But also keeping the students confidence level up. I've had to teach people how to operate machinery many times, and half the time they are a lot older than myself and so they tend to 'not' listen as they think they know it all already, but then they go and do something completely wrong... like trying to teach someone how to drive a road ranger gear box... I've always wondered how that sort of situation would go in an aircraft when the instructor is younger than the students. Tomo In response to your closing query; my RAA instructor was not yet 21 (believed to be the youngest CFI in RAA at the time) and I was a 65-year-old 'ab initio' student. We got to pilot certificate issuing state in 21 hrs total instruction without me accidently killing him and him reluctantly not deliberately killing me (tho he did scream at me a couple of times "whadda ya doing THAT for? I didn't teach you to do that!"). I guess, given that I passed the ultimate flight test, he must have beat on my hard head enough to push something in. That said, there was never a time when I didn't respect his authority nor a time when he forgot who was paying for tuition. cheers 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Thanks Riley, that's good to know as I have wondered, thanks for sharing. I would like to consider a FI rating in the near future, but I'm now committed to glider towing for a while so I'll leave it till I'm not so busy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 The student would have an expectation that you were an above average pilot as an operator, if you are an instructor. This high level of expectation is spelled out in the RAAus material, describing what is expected. You should be also a careful, safe operator. A "cowboy/girl) who is an "ace" pilot who has to show how good they are, should not apply. The Instructor should above all things constantly set a good example, and should know what you are talking about, in matters aeronautical Not everybody should be an instructor. Some don't have the patience, manner, diplomacy etc etc. The ability to "teach" is a skill which has to be learned. Some are more natural at it than others. Experience with application will improve the skill level in this area. It's not enough to be a skillful pilot and know most of what there is to know about planes. You may be ineffective at communicating this knowledge. Let's say that you were a "natural" pilot ( I've always been a little skeptical of them) and you breezed through your basic flying training . and therefore, would be impatient with others who grasped it more slowly. When I was teaching in the 50's 60's they sometimes employed what were called "Untrained Graduates" These were people who had degrees in certain faculties but had not done a course in education principles. Dip ED for instance ( A 2 year post Grad course). The failure rate amongst these teachers was almost total in the classroom situation. I personally witnessed many of them yelling louder and louder at the kids and leaving after a short time, exhibiting no effective classroom presence. While this doesn't translate directly and totally to the flight instructor situation, as there is one on one there, the question of how effective the learning process is happening has to be addressed. The shortcomings of a flight training process may not be in evidence till many years later, but may nevertheless be serious, even fatal. The fact is that few (if any) pilots ever revisit their training basics, and it would often only be a lucky co-incidence of some incorrect concept was exposed and rectified . This is why I emphasise the integrity of the instructional process being paramount. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 G'day Darky, I agree with CFI, but I will make a couple of comments... 1/ When you don't know the answer, do not be afraid to say, "I don't know, but I'll find out for you"... 2/ When you do know the answer, don't tell them the answer outright, instead, ask your student, "Where will we find that in the book?" Then if necesary, lead them to it... 3/ Don't ever ask a student a question that you don't know the answer to... On the matter of experience/competence... please be advised that after almost 30 years of instructing in aviation, I've yet to have a student who didn't teach me something... As CFI said Darkie; Go with your heart... Keep the sunny side up, Wayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Brakes Alert! she switched it off in #28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfGnome Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Brakes Alert! she switched it off in #28 Since when has that ever stopped a conversation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 You're right, never Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 But significantly darky started the thread and she also made a definative statement of where she stood on the matter. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Threads serve not just their originators, but those who find them through search or co-incidence. Thus, there is no harm in continuing a thread discussion after the originator has obtained what they needed. After all, other readers may lack the background that the originator had in order that they were satisfied with the extent of discussion at an earlier point. Discussions, while started by one person, often take on a life of their own if there's enough interesting contributors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I agree completely with that too, David. The thread belongs to the forum and everyone who posts contributes. I did not suggest terminating the thread. I merely pointed out Darky's part in it. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I look back at where I was at 120 hrs TT - and I could never have instructed at that level, even after 20 hrs instructional training. I actually had over 350 by the time I'd finished a GA FI course, and even then, my handling was average, and my patter was disjointed and poorly co-ordinated. Don't really know how they passed me?? To be blunt, I worry that in RAAus - you can instruct with 75 hrs command plus a 20 hr course - when in GA you need, (usually), a 200 hr CPL, plus a 50 hr FI course. I think the bar is just too low for RAAus. I know - it's all based on the individuals competencies - but I think that instructing has been, if you can excuse a colloqial, dumbed down so that RAA can attract more starters. happy days, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XP503 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 TomoIn response to your closing query; my RAA instructor was not yet 21 (believed to be the youngest CFI in RAA at the time) and I was a 65-year-old 'ab initio' student. We got to pilot certificate issuing state in 21 hrs total instruction without me accidently killing him and him reluctantly not deliberately killing me (tho he did scream at me a couple of times "whadda ya doing THAT for? I didn't teach you to do that!"). I guess, given that I passed the ultimate flight test, he must have beat on my hard head enough to push something in. That said, there was never a time when I didn't respect his authority nor a time when he forgot who was paying for tuition. cheers Was your instructors name Paul McKeown? And Darky - before you get an instructor rating, you should DEFINITELY learn to fly/get endorsed on a Drifter........my 2 cents 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfGnome Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 To be blunt, I worry that in RAAus - you can instruct with 75 hrs command plus a 20 hr course - when in GA you need, (usually), a 200 hr CPL, plus a 50 hr FI course. I think the bar is just too low for RAAus. I know - it's all based on the individuals competencies - but I think that instructing has been, if you can excuse a colloqial, dumbed down so that RAA can attract more starters. Interesting. I have no idea if you're right or not (my experience of instructors being limited to the RA variety), but I have a mate doing his GA FI course at the moment and I can't believe the amount of work that he has to put in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I look back at where I was at 120 hrs TT - and I could never have instructed at that level, even after 20 hrs instructional training. I actually had over 350 by the time I'd finished a GA FI course, and even then, my handling was average, and my patter was disjointed and poorly co-ordinated. Don't really know how they passed me??To be blunt, I worry that in RAAus - you can instruct with 75 hrs command plus a 20 hr course - when in GA you need, (usually), a 200 hr CPL, plus a 50 hr FI course. I think the bar is just too low for RAAus. I know - it's all based on the individuals competencies - but I think that instructing has been, if you can excuse a colloqial, dumbed down so that RAA can attract more starters. happy days, Pots Perhaps not explicitly, but generally I agree with your concerns. Whilst RAA has given me access to aviation realms that would have been un-achievable on any other basis, I continue to think that we recreational flyers will have to face a 'come-uppance' at sometime down the track for these luxuries. There are too many areas of self-governance within our spectrum that rely upon individuals 'doing the right thing'. Thankfully most of us do and the system sustains however, there always exists the element of the 'bold' pilot, and that element has (and always will) give CASA or it's counterpart a ' raison d'etre'. (slightly off topic I know and this is me on a good day!) cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I'd put "learning to fly and learning the regulations", "maintaining recency", and "doing the right thing" into three different categories. The Instructor has responsibilities to teach the first, set a good example, and make you aware of the second and third. Statistics seem to indicate the lowest number of incidents occur while we are being trained, and that we then fail to keep up with the second and third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 There has also been a concern voiced by CASA recently, that incorrect instructing may not be evident for years until some incorrectly learned element leads to an incident or accident. I have no idea just how prevalent this issue is in reality, but have personally observed poor instruction practices with visiting aircraft who make poor or incomprehensible (not a radio or voice quality issue) calls, only some of which are then corrected by the instructor. One recently messed up every call from joining to clearing the runway and after a brief period again entered the runway and departed. Calls still incomprehensible. The instructor in the aircraft only corrected two calls and obviously did not take the opportunity while on the ground to ensure that the student understood the calls to make from runway entry to departure. The problem is not just confined to RAA instructors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebutler Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Recently started my FI rating with Kev and it is not an easy course but learning a lot and most of all enjoying it. I look at it as a way of improving my flying even if I don't finish and teach a single student, not my intention though. Also a way of staying current and keeping an ear in the industry. My feeling is if you can do it, do it!! New instructors are always sought after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Go fot it Darky. We have watched your coming of age on this forum and it appears to me that you have your head correctly screwed on. I have had some awful instructors over the years and seen some terrible terrible instructors. The bad ones are not all inexperienced, in fact they are usually highly experienced, plus often highly opinionated. Two of the best were hour building to get into the airlines. I know I would be a poor instructor, because I have instructed in other spheres and if my students couldn't stay focussed I just gave up on them, maybe flying would be different, but I am not going to try. If you do go for it I imagine you would be intelligent enough to be able to self assess, plus you would be under the wing of a CFI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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