Teckair Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Fast taxiing a plane without wings fitted is not such a great idea as the wings have a stabilising effect. If you get a bit out of control a fuselage without wings can roll onto its side much more easily than one with wings. When a tailwheel aircraft gets the tail up part of the lifting force is the wings not just the elevator. If you do it without wings you will have to go faster and you will be be putting more stress than normal on the elevator. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Congrats on the purchase of your own aircraft Tomo it looks a little beauty, reminds me a bit of my Winton Swing Wing. Who designed and built the Soliaire? Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Richards' right Tomo. Plus you run a greater chance of destroying the prop if you do end up on your side. However, by all means do whatever you need to do, on the ground, prior to flying to get comfortable with the beast !...I personally like to tie an aircraft to a post and run at takeoff power a few times, prior to flying an unfamiliar aircraft. This ensures that fuel flow is adequet at full noise, and also show that full RPMs is obtainable, particularly with an unfamiliar prop, and that temps are good. On the engine side, the CHT is the one to watch on the 447 at full power after takeoff. The EGTs will basically tell you if your mixture is correct, or too lean/rich. Anywhere between 1050-1200 should be good there. Don't go above 1250. Below 1000 your burning way more fuel than you need to. You should have good cooling in that machine, as I expect you'll be getting along pretty briskly. Years ago I did 175 hrs on a free-air cooled 447. (no fan) I was swinging a big prop, and the CHT always wanted to creep above 380 after take-off. If you didn't back off, it would happily climb toward 400 !....It always ran sweet as you would expect with a new engine. One morning I climbed to 1500 Ft for the cruise to a fly-in only about 30nm away. I had leveled off and reduced power, and the CHT was coming back nicely to around 360 or so, when suddenly she just started backfiring !......I pulled on some choke thinking it was a fuel supply problem, but it just made the backfiring worse. At 1000ft it was obvious it wasn't going to keep me in the air, so I picked a nice paddock and landed nicely. Upon pulling the plugs I found one cylinder had zero compression. The top (dykes) ring had come clean off one piston and had shattered into a million pieces, bending over the spark-plug electrod in the process. No fly-in that day. And on the subject of spark-plugs, if your running an upside-down engine, with pull-start, you may seriously consider replacing the standard B8ES plugs with B8EV plugs, for quicker and easy starts, and better running and fuel burn allround. The B8EV plugs are best found at motorcycle outlets, as they are a racing plug for bikes. They do cost a bit but you will get many fine hours from them. I ran them for years in the 582 Drifter, and would highly recommend them. The twin-carb engines will always run smoother than the single carb, but you should be fine with a SC on the 447....reading the plugs regulary with a 2-stroke is the way to go. If your timing or points aren't right it'll want to lean up on you, and your plugs will start indicating lean, instead of that nice slightly sooty coffee brown that 2-strokes like......Your engine sounds pretty sweet in the video.............................................................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfox1 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Richards' right Tomo. Plus you run a greater chance of destroying the prop if you do end up on your side. However, by all means do whatever you need to do, on the ground, prior to flying to get comfortable with the beast !...I personally like to tie an aircraft to a post and run at takeoff power a few times, prior to flying an unfamiliar aircraft. This ensures that fuel flow is adequet at full noise, and also show that full RPMs is obtainable, particularly with an unfamiliar prop, and that temps are good.On the engine side, the CHT is the one to watch on the 447 at full power after takeoff. The EGTs will basically tell you if your mixture is correct, or too lean/rich. Anywhere between 1050-1200 should be good there. Don't go above 1250. Below 1000 your burning way more fuel than you need to. You should have good cooling in that machine, as I expect you'll be getting along pretty briskly. Years ago I did 175 hrs on a free-air cooled 447. (no fan) I was swinging a big prop, and the CHT always wanted to creep above 380 after take-off. If you didn't back off, it would happily climb toward 400 !....It always ran sweet as you would expect with a new engine. One morning I climbed to 1500 Ft for the cruise to a fly-in only about 30nm away. I had leveled off and reduced power, and the CHT was coming back nicely to around 360 or so, when suddenly she just started backfiring !......I pulled on some choke thinking it was a fuel supply problem, but it just made the backfiring worse. At 1000ft it was obvious it wasn't going to keep me in the air, so I picked a nice paddock and landed nicely. Upon pulling the plugs I found one cylinder had zero compression. The top (dykes) ring had come clean off one piston and had shattered into a million pieces, bending over the spark-plug electrod in the process. No fly-in that day. And on the subject of spark-plugs, if your running an upside-down engine, with pull-start, you may seriously consider replacing the standard B8ES plugs with B8EV plugs, for quicker and easy starts, and better running and fuel burn allround. The B8EV plugs are best found at motorcycle outlets, as they are a racing plug for bikes. They do cost a bit but you will get many fine hours from them. I ran them for years in the 582 Drifter, and would highly recommend them. The twin-carb engines will always run smoother than the single carb, but you should be fine with a SC on the 447....reading the plugs regulary with a 2-stroke is the way to go. If your timing or points aren't right it'll want to lean up on you, and your plugs will start indicating lean, instead of that nice slightly sooty coffee brown that 2-strokes like......Your engine sounds pretty sweet in the video.............................................................................Maj... Hi Maj would you recommend them for a 503 inverted or run the BR8ES cheers Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I just warned Tomo about that on FB. The owner of a brand new Thruster did the same thing and wrote it off. Upside down engines also collect some fuel and oil in the heads when they sit for a while. At the end of the days flying i would remove the plugs and fit the plastic screw in bungs that came with the engine. When i removed them to refit the plugs there was always a teaspoon or so worth that drained out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Geoff, I would recommend them for any rotax 2-stroke, inverted or up right. They just give a more consistant start, better running, and longer life. I deliberatly ran a set out to 160 Hours once in my 582 Drifter. They had been cleaned and regapped several times, but at 160 Hrs were still doing fine. What caused me to discard them in the end ??.....the center post, (Precious metal-irridium ?) had rounded off to the point where I just couldn't gap them accuratly anymore, so it was time for a new set. Last time I purchased a set they were actually BR8EV, and were up to around $15 each, you may have to seek them out. I purchased them from a Honda bike dealer. We originally discovered these plugs in the early 80s when most 2-strokes were single points-ign, pull start, and damn hard to start if real cold (northern California in Winter!). We'd generally get a start with them in two to three good pulls....................................................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Are you sure the resistor is OK with this ignition? We NEVER run them or suppression leads on magneto equipped bikes. It's NOT a good idea to have a high resistance in the secondary circuit. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 DDSC, whats that Tomo .?That little plane will be a great commuter and should be real fast even with that good old 447. Did you know you can prop swing a 447 if it has the old points ignition Tomo? Hah: you could use the Armstrong method to start her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 It is not uncommon to find resister plugs in Rotax 2-strokes these days. The BR8EV set that I purchased about a year ago for a 582 trike are performing fine. Occassionally I'll find BR8ES plugs also during normal services. If combined with a non-standard resistor plug-cap that has too high a resistance there may be a problem, but they seem to do well with the standard Rotax resistor cap..the 'resistor' in a plug anyway is simply a small slither of carbon which is there to reduce the plugs noise 'interference capacity' to radios etc.. It should not cause any problems for a healthy ignition system.............................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 What speed did you get up to, it looked reasonably quick.What airstrip was that? 40kts I think, wasn't taking a lot of notice as I was watch where I was going! And its just a dirt road airstrip next door to our place, my neighbours actually. Thanks again to everyone else, and the advice, very much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Congrats on the purchase of your own aircraft Tomo it looks a little beauty, reminds me a bit of my Winton Swing Wing.Who designed and built the Soliaire? Alan. It was built by your favourite plane builder, take a guess, when I saw it I asked the question to the man "who built this" as it had the Saphire and glider look, The answer was that he had built it years earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damkia Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Are you sure the resistor is OK with this ignition? We NEVER run them or suppression leads on magneto equipped bikes. It's NOT a good idea to have a high resistance in the secondary circuit. Nev IIRC the reason for resistor leads/plugs is to extend the spark duration, rather than simply dump all the energy into one hell of a short shap whack in the plug. The actual resistance is inconsequential when compared with the open circuit resistance across the plug an does not affect the spark strength as such. The elcetrical equations escape me at the moment but the duration of the spark is related to the resistance of the plug circuit divided by inductance of the coil. The practical upshot is that you will have a 5kV spark across the plug for 5 times longer than a 25kV spark, resulting in a more complete burn of the air/fuel mixture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 IIRC the reason for resistor leads/plugs is to extend the spark duration, rather than simply dump all the energy into one hell of a short shap whack in the plug. The actual resistance is inconsequential when compared with the open circuit resistance across the plug an does not affect the spark strength as such. The elcetrical equations escape me at the moment but the duration of the spark is related to the resistance of the plug circuit divided by inductance of the coil. The practical upshot is that you will have a 5kV spark across the plug for 5 times longer than a 25kV spark, resulting in a more complete burn of the air/fuel mixture. Yes, and the sum energy expended remains the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Might be OK for CDI but don"t use it on a magneto. You will get much more contact point burning and a good chance of a failure of the coil. ( and that will be sudden) The orignal reason for fitting these leads was for suppression of interference with radios and TV. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 It was built by your favourite plane builder, take a guess, when I saw it I asked the question to the man "who built this" as it had the Saphire and glider look, The answer was that he had built it years earlier. Did you get to fly a Morgan Sierra whilst you were there.?? Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Did you get to fly a Morgan Sierra whilst you were there.??Alan. Yes, I do most times I go there, mostly right hand seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_richo Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 It was built by your favourite plane builder, take a guess, when I saw it I asked the question to the man "who built this" as it had the Saphire and glider look, The answer was that he had built it years earlier. I remember seeing it in his shed down in Sydney, around 1986-1987 was just about complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Tomo, you've got a collectable there mate !!!...................................................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 Hey Maj, sounds like it! Pretty happy with everything so far, might change the fuel tank down the track, and put a different prop on. And a few other little things here and there, but overall seems like a pretty good little design. Can't wait to see how it fly's though... next week sometime maybe if the weather is okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth lacey Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Hi Tomo good to see you have your own plane ,how many planes have you flown in your short life !! have fun and safe flying (when the Morgan is flying will have to call in at Cecil Plains on the the way to dalby ) to see my son and grand kids cheers gareth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 Thanks Gareth! I've lost count, but something like 28 different types... You're welcome anytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Hey Maj, sounds like it!Pretty happy with everything so far, might change the fuel tank down the track, and put a different prop on. And a few other little things here and there, but overall seems like a pretty good little design. Can't wait to see how it fly's though... next week sometime maybe if the weather is okay. Geez Tomo, You haven't even flown it yet and you got fiddle fingers syndrome already, how about you fly it , you never know you might just enjoy it the way it is. Bruddy mechanics, compulsive fiddle fingerers lol. Cheers Alf 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Don't worry Alf, Knowing Tomo that plane won't spend too much time on the ground !.........Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan3111 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 If it,s a points model 447 it may pay to get them looked at before doing to much flying if it,s been sitting around the oil pad on the cam dries up .i had one for years Good engine I found taking the points out and buffing them and super polishing them where better then putting new ones in if they were not to pitted. Every time I put new ones in the wear lug on them would have to bed in and you where for ever setting the gap on them . Have fun flying your new plane 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 Done a bit more to it this afternoon! And here is a small, dodgy video of the engine running - sorry about the quality, it was getting a bit dark and the camera didn't like it at all! Ran it for a while, full power tied to the post I get about 6100rpm, which seems about right, will see what it gets in the air. Temps were all looking good after about 4-5min on full power. EGT's were even. Here are some photos... Behind the instrument panel, I pulled the top cover off to inspect and also rotate the toggle switches so down is OFF! Also fitted some headset jacks in the side panel Battery, not a huge fan on where this is located on the tank, so in future might make a sealed case for it or relocate it. Storage compartment under seat Carby side of engine Some close ups Prop Exhaust system Bit closer up Tail assembly Another side view Looking forwards, I still have the top off the instrument panel Front wing pin attachment point There you go... bit more, I think I'm almost ready for an airborne run... this weekend probably. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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