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Garry Morgan

LSA

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kgwilson

So what is going on here? Are the certified jab engines out there going to be de-certified? Are the 24 registered Jabs going to be grounded. Can Jabiru sell new aircraft if no-one else can with one of their engines? Hey this is pretty f*!#%$g serious. Can anyone get a definitive answer from anyone in CASA?

Who do I call? Lee Ungerman? Mick Pool? Mickey Mouse? I need to know who to sue.

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Powerin

As is standard practice these days for organisations, CASA have a Vision Statement, Mission Statement and Values statement. Perhaps someone might like to remind some CASA people of these statements...especially this one:

  • We act at all times with fairness and integrity. We maintain the highest levels of professionalism and act with high ethical standards and without bias.
    We make balanced judgements which are risk based and evidence driven. We act innovatively and with flexibility to meet our responsibilities.

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Gnarly Gnu

Anyone else notice the grammatical errors in that CASA document? Cringe-worthy much..... some txtr kid might have put it together.

 

The worst part of this is they are destroying aircraft manufactures in Australia. Andy this is not about to happen it is happening.

 

Being in (non-avaiation) manufacturing I can assure you they absolutely don't give a toss about local manufacturing and haven't for quite some time now. Just received a notice of 27.5% increase in electricity prices today, this state now has the most expensive power in the world apparently. There are a whole raft of such reverse tariffs; that is penalties local manufacturers have to pay that overseas based suppliers do not. And in this case it seems CASA will follow the theme - tougher on local aircraft than imported.

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Guest Andys@coffs

Only 27.5%, mine (DoDo Elec and Gas) have increased my Time of Use rates from between 45% and 47.5%, but in order to reduce the pain have increased the on time payment discount from 10% to 15%. so when all that is played out the actual $ increase I pay is approx 38%. So carbon tax aside what exactly has changed in the electricity business to justify a 35% premium above CPI, where over the last 8 years the increase above CPI is probably around 100% to 150% above CPI???

 

Andy

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David Isaac

For those of you who are perhaps not aware, the carbon tax has had no impact on cost increases so far.

 

There are two fundamental reasons why our electricity charges have risen.

 

The first being the state government's absurd reliability standards for the provision of electricity. These were introduced by the former Labour government as a policy based solely on politics, not common sense. By demanding the highest safety and reliability standards from power generators, massive capital investment was required to ensure the transmission network was 'gold plated', to reduce blackouts during peak power loads by about one hour. The result has been no noticeable difference by consumers apart from massive hikes in their bills

 

The second reason being the governments' equally absurd green energy schemes. IPART (Independent Pricing and Regulatory Tribunal) has singled out the Renewable Energy Target as having a major price impact. Under the Solar Credits multiplier part of this scheme, which very few people understand, energy retailers are forced to buy two clean energy certificates for every kilowatt hour of energy produced. The cost of buying these credits is passed on to the consumer. Put simply customers pay a premium to have 33% of electricity sourced from renewable technologies when the proportion of electricity actually being generated by renewable technologies is only 10%.

 

Does any of this make sense ... NO ... but we are being forced to pay for it.

 

Then there is the O'Farrell government's climate change levy. What can we say about an ill defined and vague tax to pay for its bungled solar credit scheme, which effectively forces poor people to pay the cost of putting solar panels on more wealthy people's homes.

 

IPART recommends the scrapping of all these schemes and to recalibrate the reliability standards to reflect reality and save an estimated 1.1 Billion in capital expenditure.

 

Complex ... but is that not what governments are good at? Too difficult for the average Joe to understand unless he is told what is really happening.

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Camel
As is standard practice these days for organisations, CASA have a Vision Statement, Mission Statement and Values statement. Perhaps someone might like to remind some CASA people of these statements...especially this one:

  • We act at all times with fairness and integrity. We maintain the highest levels of professionalism and act with high ethical standards and without bias.
    We make balanced judgements which are risk based and evidence driven. We act innovatively and with flexibility to meet our responsibilities.

 

Well if any company Chiefs left and went to a competitors company and then set about destroying or hindering it't progress, causing loss of jobs and causing that company to start infighting then here we are. Can't see any of the above in CASA statement in fact total opposite. Can you please be that someone Powerin to remind CASA.

When all Australian manufactures are gone then the Aussie dollar falls and it's two US for one, then you will have to buy imported and this will be expensive. Stick up for what you believe in and make yourself heard and stamp your feet and save our Aussie Aviation industry. Morgan Aeroworks is an innovator of new designs and been having a go, the CASA are not having a go at all, just negative and political correctness, same old "it's not safe till the paperworks done", we are recreational flying not airline pilots, it is meant to be simple and so is LSA it's meant to be simple to free up the paper trail but a few have decided there is not enough paper.

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turboplanner
This saga reminds me of when I applied to emigrate to Australia. Dragged on and on and no reason for delay was forthcoming. My wife was also fed up with the negative answers so she sent a telegram to the highest position possible, the Minister For Emigration. He was so surprised as no one had ever done it before. We emigrated 6 weeks later. I suggest you do the same. Go to the top. In this case I guess the Minister of Aviation!! It is his job to get you some answers. Even CASA won't like questions being asked in da house. Don't give in to the 'faceless/gutless' ones who run the show. As said before, we pay their wages. Make them earn it.

 

We have a small impediment to success with that action in the form of Minister Albanese.

That would normally be taken care of by Her Majesty's Shadow Minister Warren Truss

 

However when you look at Truss's record in the long years before his Government lost office, and when you hear him speak, you'd swear Albanese was copying his actions.

 

So it's a Catch 22 until someone breaks the nexus and the appalling aviation governance situation is cleaned up.

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Guernsey

I'm a bit confused with the title LSA , are we talking about Lectricity in South Australia or Light Sport Aircraft??? :scratching head: :sorry:

Alan.

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David Isaac

Yeah, sorry about that Al, bit off topis eh.

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Powerin
Well if any company Chiefs left and went to a competitors company and then set about destroying or hindering it't progress, causing loss of jobs and causing that company to start infighting then here we are. Can't see any of the above in CASA statement in fact total opposite. Can you please be that someone Powerin to remind CASA.

When all Australian manufactures are gone then the Aussie dollar falls and it's two US for one, then you will have to buy imported and this will be expensive. Stick up for what you believe in and make yourself heard and stamp your feet and save our Aussie Aviation industry. Morgan Aeroworks is an innovator of new designs and been having a go, the CASA are not having a go at all, just negative and political correctness, same old "it's not safe till the paperworks done", we are recreational flying not airline pilots, it is meant to be simple and so is LSA it's meant to be simple to free up the paper trail but a few have decided there is not enough paper.

I'm not sure a lowly farmer would get much of a hearing in the hallowed halls of CASA :outback:

 

As DJP et al have already pointed out, CASA is purely a safety authority and there is nothing in their charter which says they need to nurture aviation....just make it safe. The FAA in the USA was set up differently....but if you look at the FAA's mission statements they only mention safety too.

 

The reason I mentioned it is that the fairness and integrity, professionalism, ethics and lack of bias mentioned in the CASA values statement seem to be conspicuously absent in this case.

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Camel

As a Farmer you are the most important man as you put food on our tables and you need Australian built planes in the bush so you can get parts and service quickly. I am sick of banging my head against the wall watching a bunch of public servants trying to make themselves important and not caring about who they shaft along the way.

It seems a constant battle fighting to save Airline services, saving Airports, saving our Aircraft manufacturers and saving our right to fly. So it always seems to be CASA that wants to stop everything. The Airlines if allowed to operate to suit demands and instead of flying big empty Jets they could survive and regional airports, farmers, tourists, buisnessmen would be happy in regional centres. The government departments such as CASA have to smarten up not get smart and try destroy everything in their sight. Without aviation CASA won't have a Job so it would seem they should help not hinder in my opinion.

About 15 years ago things were such that people moved to regional places from the Cities as the internet allowed them to trade etc and then the regional Airlines stopped at some of these places. Also A bunch of would be experts in the early 2000's started the National Airspace Reform and ended up trying to put it back how it was, as it was a mess, and in fairness it was a Lib/Nat government and the Boss of Aviation resigned ( Mr Anderson ). Our current Mr Albanese is not any better that is for sure as Turbo point out as well.

Safety can't be measured as good by stopping everything. LSA is the target now and they have probably proved themselves as safe but not enough paperwork.

In the years I have spoken to very helpful people at CASA but it always seems that someone higher up is the problem.

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Crezzi
I believe This started in Australia, and because of the Audit by Casa, and the former management of RAA now Casa management.

 

The FAA report was published in mid 2010 but the assessments of the American LSA importers & manufacturers were done in late 2008 / early 2009. IIRC Messrs Poole & Ungermann were still at RAAus during this period and it was certainly well before the recent & very high profile accident involving an LSA aircraft in Australia.

 

The USA may have a different approach and not want to destroy but improve.

The EASA version of LSA has already moved away from the ASTM method of self-approval to more rigorous oversight of manufacturers. It seems very likely that FAA will also be changing the rules though possibly to a different degree. Increased certification costs will inevitably result in many smaller manufacturers (not just Australian) being unable to demonstrate compliance.

 

John

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winsor68

IMO...

 

A quick squiz at the Ra-Aus Constitution and Ops Manual gave me the impression that Ra-Aus is in the deep end completely over it's head... I don't see the National system of Clubs that these documents seem to hint at .... or any other effective means of organizing the supervision and oversight of Recreational Aircraft Operations in a commercial environment...

 

I think this is what Casa has it's eyes on... Maintenance is probably the biggest factor to be affected... and this will have a washover effect on manufacturing as well as flying schools....

 

Again.. this is my opinion and my feeling regarding the direction Ra-Aus unfortunately has been led... hopefully they will leave the Ultralight end (the stuff Ra-Aus was/is set up to manage) alone...

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damkia
IMO...

 

A quick squiz at the Ra-Aus Constitution and Ops Manual gave me the impression that Ra-Aus is in the deep end completely over it's head... I don't see the National system of Clubs that these documents seem to hint at .... or any other effective means of organizing the supervision and oversight of Recreational Aircraft Operations in a commercial environment...

 

I think this is what Casa has it's eyes on... Maintenance is probably the biggest factor to be affected... and this will have a washover effect on manufacturing as well as flying schools....

 

Again.. this is my opinion and my feeling regarding the direction Ra-Aus unfortunately has been led... hopefully they will leave the Ultralight end (the stuff Ra-Aus was/is set up to manage) alone...

This was pretty much what I meant by CASA needing to do a "ground up" rebuild of RA-Aus structure, including "rewriting the rules" of operation.

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Crezzi

AFAIK both the current Ops manual and all the previous revisions were approved by CASA prior to issue

 

Cheers

John

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Garry Morgan

I have heard that level 2 are the next in line, and a lot will be wiped out.

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Garry Morgan

I have been told that level 2 are next in line, watch out

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dazza 38
I have been told that level 2 are next in line, watch out
Having worked on Fast jets for 12 years in the past as a Airframe/Aircraft Technician.I have seen some dodgy stuff performed on UL aircraft and GA aircraft. Having said that.I have not seen UL aircraft fall out of the sky willy nilly either.UL aircraft by nature are not that complex. Engines can be, but airframes not realy unless you get into the composite and composite repairs. I dont personally have a L2.No need for it.

PS- dodgy work, not unsafe work. I mean - simple trade skills like bad lockwiring.Still doing the job, but messy.Not neat etc.

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jpreou
I got a bit rude with a well know CASA guy and told them that no aircraft will fly in Aussie soon the way things are going.

 

Someone once told me (and bear in mind I am not an Aussie, nor do I live there) that CASA stood for "Cnts against Sensible Aviation"! :)

No idea if true, but it was funny.

We're not so bad here in NZ, but the CAA / Airways still make GA harder and more expensive than it needs to be :(

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Thruster87
Someone once told me (and bear in mind I am not an Aussie, nor do I live there) that CASA stood for "Cnts against Sensible Aviation"! :)

Started my career in aviation back in 1969 and I have never heard that saying before, only insulting personal comments of individual casa inspectors

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Dafydd Llewellyn

Getting back to the question of why were some manufacturers or aircraft disallowed (for want of a better word), the answer may be found in CASR Part 21.186.1(a) and CASA AC 21.42 - in particular, the latter, which explains what it takes to become a manufacturer of LSA aircraft. Amongst other things, the manufacturer needs to either (1) hold a Production Certificate for an aircraft of comparable complexity, OR (2) must have the services of professional persons acceptable to CASA.

 

See http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/rules/1998casr/021/021c42.pdf

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Garry Morgan

Yes and we had my engineer working for us and no one ask us. just a letter to go LSA and we asked our selves how did this happen. And when we did all the testing and paper work again, with our engineer present. When the CASA del. turned up the first thing he said was my plane hit a ferris wheel and then spend the weekend condemning every thing we had done ,he would not even except the jab motor . Which is one out of two best on the market. As with every one else bar two had the 24 rego taken away .destroyed aussie manufacturing in this country. and now there is no confidence in the market when the GFC is no us as well. My glider is sitting now for a year and may never fly in this country. SAAA has banded me from advisting where 75% of our work come from .

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facthunter

CASA respond when you have "wheel" trouble of the ferris type. Which shouldn't have been where it was anyhow. Nev

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David Isaac
Yes and we had my engineer working for us and no one ask us. just a letter to go LSA and we asked our selves how did this happen. And when we did all the testing and paper work again, with our engineer present. When the CASA del. turned up the first thing he said was my plane hit a ferris wheel and then spend the weekend condemning every thing we had done ,he would not even except the jab motor . Which is one out of two best on the market. As with every one else bar two had the 24 rego taken away .destroyed aussie manufacturing in this country. and now there is no confidence in the market when the GFC is no us as well. My glider is sitting now for a year and may never fly in this country. SAAA has banded me from advisting where 75% of our work come from .

Gary,

I have no doubt that had the right support been available (and that should have come from RAAus at the time) your situation could have been largely overcome. You were the victim of a series of circumstances that were unbelievably coincidental, and terribly unfortunate and at the same time fortunate that nobody was injured. Unfortunately you couldn't arrange a more highly public profile accident if you tried to engineer it. The accident had nothing to do with your aircraft. The placement of the Ferris Wheel I allege was negligent in the extreme. ... BUT ... it happened to be one of your aircraft and the experimental one at that, so all the darts were aimed at you. Sure there were many things not 'right' with your operation at the time, but these were all issues that could have been overcome with the right support, efforts and implementation of systems.

 

I too am fearful for Australian manufacturing content in aviation, the latest debacle with Jabiru could bring about the demise of two Australian companies. I just hope the kit built 19 rego system can stay strong. Some of this European LSA product is real crap and most will be dead frames, not economically repairable a hell of a lot sooner than the owners think. They are certainly not 10,000 hrs plus frames like little GAs are.

 

If I was a speculating man, it will only b a matter of time until they 'life' many of these LSAs. Ever priced a replacement wing for a Tecnam? You wait, the manufacturers will engineer obsolescence into the frames and they will reach a point of non viability in a lot less hours than people will hope for.

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flyvulcan
SAAA has banded me from advisting where 75% of our work come from .

 

Hi Garry,

 

There is a new National Council in the SAAA that may be receptive to renouncing your ban on advertising in their magazine. Unless there is demonstrable fault with the product or lack of integrity on the part of the manufacturer/supplier, I feel that the SAAA should be supporting the local industry of which you are a big player.

 

I know someone else that is in your position with the SAAA and I feel that these "bans" which are in place should be reviewed. I shall communicate with the few that I know on the new SAAA NC and find out whether something can be done.

 

As for your glider, there should be nothing stopping it from being flown under one of the provisions of the experimental category.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

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