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Stillhere

Skyranger botton line dollars

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Hi all you skyranger builders. Can anyone come up with a bottom line dollar amount it cost them to build and get the aircraft up and flying, fancy avionic options aside, or is it a suck and see sort of thing where the costs keep mounting up as you progress and in the end resembles nothing like the advertised price.

 

Stillhere

 

 

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Interesting that there are no replies. Someone would have kept records and calculated the cost. I would also be interested in the all up cost.

 

 

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Sorry, I just noticed this post.

 

I haven't totted up all the cents for my Nynja, but I think it cost me aroud $65K all up, flying.

 

For the record, "Spirit of Kitty Hawk" has

 

XLam wing and tail skins

 

Spats

 

Factory striping

 

Aerodynamic jury struts

 

Factory exhaust system

 

A few other options that I can't think of off the top of my head

 

100HP Rotax 912ULS and accessories (Oil cooler, radiator, regulator, air cleaners, oil tank, oil hose)

 

Facet solid state fuel pump

 

Avionics

 

Rotax (AviaSport) steam gauge style instruments (CHT, Oil Temp, Voltmeter, Tacho, Oil Press)

 

Falcon ASI, VSI, Alt

 

Vertical card compass

 

Garmin 495 GPS

 

Honeywell Hobbs meter

 

iCom A210 VHF comm

 

Trig TT21 transponder

 

GT50 Clock/voltmeter/G-Meter/Timer/OAT

 

GME 410G EPIRB

 

Locally made aluminium 94L tank

 

Warp Drive 3 blade composite prop and spinner

 

And lots of other bits and pieces I used to put it all together like rivets, hose clamps, wire, switches and so on...

 

And for comparison, the Airborne XT912 Tundra trike with Cruze wing that I used to have, cost me $72,000 (not counting flying suits gloves etc). Nynja cruises at 90+knots, the trike at 48knots.

 

There is a lot that can vary the final price such as whether you go for the 80HP engine or the 100HP and how much you spend on avionics. There are also options that you can leave off the kit if you choose which can reduce the price again.

 

I know I'm biased, but I couldn't be happier with my Nynja. Easy to build, easy to fly.

 

I took 11 months to build my Nynja. I'm pretty slow. Greg built his in about 10 weeks.

 

If you are interested in a Skyranger the best person to talk to is Greg Robertson. He's the distributor in Oz and a pretty straight up guy.

 

Edit:I just re-read your post and the final all up price IS very dependant on how much you put in the plane, particularly in the avionics. There are quite a few things the kit doesn't include, but apart from the engine and avionics, they are nickel and dime type things that you buy as you go along. That said, if you added them all up, they do add a significant amount to the final price. For instance: if you put 10 circuit breakers in at around $10 each, there's $100.00 worth. Put an "accessory" (cigarette lighter socket) in and there's another $10.00. It all adds up.

 

2nd Edit: It's hard to put an exact price on the final build. You might buy 3 metres of wire and use 1.5 metres of that. Do you chalk the whole lot up to the plane? If you over-estimated the amount of wire needed should that go on the final price tag of the plane? You might buy a box of screws and use 10 of them. Same thing and on it goes.

 

 

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Thank you cscottendry for your reply

 

I Understand an exact calculation could be difficult, a reasonable estimate give use a very good idea of the real cost.

 

As for the Wire Scew ect.. I would add the total length and all the screw as you may not have otherwise purchased them and may never use the left overs IMO.

 

Thanks again for the info. Very much appreciated.

 

 

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As for the Wire Scew ect.. I would add the total length and all the screw as you may not have otherwise purchased them and may never use the left overs IMO.

Thanks again for the info. Very much appreciated.

Yeah that's a tricky one. Those bits of wire and screws aren't physically part of the plane. Even though you may not have bought them otherwise, what if you use that wire and those screws somewhere else? But I'm sure you get the point that an exact price is only possible if you were manufacturing the planes and counted and price every nut and bolt that went into it. And you would do that if you were interested in how much money you were going to make out of it.

 

For my build, I just didn't count a lot of that little fiddly stuff.

 

 

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Hi Stillhere

 

Scott's Nynja is quite well equiped and would probably be at the upper end, cost wise. A Nynja can be built for around $62-65 thousand using all new components. A skyranger will be about 5-6 thousand cheaper depending what options you choose. Has to be just about the best value for money around.

 

Greg

 

 

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I borrowed 60 to buy and build my swift with a 912. That was without an AH and a transponder, but with a garmin 296 gps. Would be able to do it for a lot less now the Euro is lower than when I bought the kit in 2008. The beauty of the Skyranger is you can make it light and basic or stick lots of whistles and bells in it.

 

 

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I wont tell you what my Sav cost me but it was a fair bit lower than 60k inc all avionics. I am surprised I would have thought the skyrangers were a lot cheaper

Mark:

 

Does the Sav come pre-painted, or did you arrange that locally, or do it yourself? I ask, because painting was one of the aspects of building that really daunted me. I wasn't confident of doing it properly and having it done professionally seemed like it could get very expensive. The absence of requirement for painting was one of the big attractors to the Nynja for me.

 

 

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Mark:Does the Sav come pre-painted, or did you arrange that locally, or do it yourself? I ask, because painting was one of the aspects of building that really daunted me. I wasn't confident of doing it properly and having it done professionally seemed like it could get very expensive. The absence of requirement for painting was one of the big attractors to the Nynja for me.

Hi Scott

 

The sav kit comes with every nut and bolt and rivet it comes with some "black goop" which gets brushed on where any two pieces of alu meet for corrosion protection it also comes with a complete set of analogue instruments even the battery. The only things you do not get with the kit is the radio and antenna and the painting. You even get the battery.

 

I painted mine myself as I have a lot of experience with painting in another life...I used to spray paint cars at the ford assembly plant in Brisbane it was my first job out of school before I went off to be a sparky. I have always painted my own RC models etc and a few cars I have reborn over the years. I asked around for a pro paintjob on a sav or similar size aircraft and got prices from $6000 to $10000. I did mine myself Total cost of all the etch primer, undercoat and top colours all high quality paint was around $1000. I have all my own spray equipments etc here . Spray painting is not hard you could learn to do it in just an hour or so if someone shows you what to do. The technique for how to spray and the distance off the surface and the speed you travel the gun at of course there is paint consistency but again it is all pretty easy to get in your head. The biggest issue is the preparation of the surfaces that is what takes the time. That is the part that almost broke my spirit I spent so much time and effort scotchbriting every piece of aluminium and all the undercoat sanding was a huge task. My next aircraft will be somewhat different. I will not have the middle undercoat. You can get a etchprimer that is also a undercoat then just use a topcoat so it leaves out that middle sanding part which is the part that made my build the hardest.

 

Painting a cloth covered aircraft would be quite easy as there really isn't too much sanding required and the colour of the cloth would mean you dont have to put too much paint on either to make sure you get the colour depth you can do a couple of nice light coats which of course you wont get any runs then. If you build another one Scott I can show you how to do it...it is very easy and takes a little practise thats all.

 

Attached are some pics showing the progress.....it took about 3 months or so to finish all the painting that is what nearly broke me. If you have the spare cash well of course get a pro to do it but the major part of the money you pay him is for all the prep that must be done the paint and the actual painting is really only a very small part of the cost...it is all the sanding and prep and masking that takes up all the money

 

Mark

 

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IMG_1186_2.jpg.a1dcf395a79889e49d9557e5f3aa6e08.jpg

 

 

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They are a nice looking a/c!

And nice to fly too. Reasonably quick, but very forgiving in the landing.

 

Hi Scott

 

I painted mine myself as I have a lot of experience with painting in another life...

 

Mark

 

Mark: Yup, that's about how I thought the process would be. Daunting for me, to say the least. The attraction of the Nynja was threefold: One, that you can build one with common hand tools, Two that it is constructed with all straight AL tubing (ie no "special" parts) and three the fibreglass shell looks great right out of the box, just stick on the stripes and away you go. NO, repeat no painting required.

 

Thx for the pics. Very interesting...

 

 

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I wont tell you what my Sav cost me but it was a fair bit lower than 60k inc all avionics. I am surprised I would have thought the skyrangers were a lot cheaper

Sounds great value! Have always liked the looks of savs (never seen one in real life though). Have watched vids and they look a lot of fun. Closest a/c ive flown size wise is a c150. How do they compare handling wise to GA a/c or is there no real comparison?

 

 

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I would imagine the Sav handles similar to the Skyrangers the sav maybe a little more stol thats all. I used to fly a C172 also flew gliders for quite a few years and the Sav is the easiest aircraft I have ever flown they are very forgiving have a unbelievably controllable stall and recovery so much so it is freaky when compared to other aircraft I have flown. The Skyrangers from what I have read and seen I think I have looked at all of their videos seem to fly pretty much the same so either way it depends on what you want to get. Each has their own advantages. There are a lot of both Savs and Skyrangers in europe infact I would say they would be the 2 most popular homebuilts I think ICP have made well over 2000 Savs in the different forms and probably around the same for Skyranger series

 

 

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That is the part that almost broke my spirit I spent so much time and effort scotchbriting every piece of aluminium and all the undercoat sanding was a huge task. My next aircraft will be somewhat different. I will not have the middle undercoat. You can get a etchprimer that is also a undercoat then just use a topcoat so it leaves out that middle sanding part which is the part that made my build the hardest.

Hi Mark, I'm interested in that comment about leaving out the middle undercoat. This leads to a few questions:

 

1. Why did you decide to put the middle coat on in the first place?

 

2. Is anything compromised by leaving off the middle coat?

 

3. Overall, how much time would be saved by not applying the middle undercoat?

 

4. How much weight would be saved if this middle undercoat was not sprayed on? (this one might be hard to estimate)

 

 

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Hi Mark, I'm interested in that comment about leaving out the middle undercoat. This leads to a few questions:

1. Why did you decide to put the middle coat on in the first place?

 

2. Is anything compromised by leaving off the middle coat?

 

3. Overall, how much time would be saved by not applying the middle undercoat?

 

4. How much weight would be saved if this middle undercoat was not sprayed on? (this one might be hard to estimate)

Im painting an RV 12 at the moment I do this for a living. I use a product called Prekote this preps the surface you dont need to etch primer if you use Prekote. The catch is you have 24 hours to prime once you have used the prekote. So you only prep what you can prime within that time. Even though I do this for a living Im very happy to help anyone out with free advice. 100_7662.JPG.75c50031ba3a1253e2ab6783670b8ba8.JPG

 

All the above parts have been prekoted & ready for primer. Its not hard just time consuming Preperation.

 

100_7635.JPG.35738cff93c594beb9d0114ff8fea1d0.JPG

 

100_7637.JPG.700d45bc9876451688ad37fbd9e6e172.JPG

 

100_7661.JPG.c306dd090df3f7c3a9df4b5bec5d3048.JPG

 

 

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Hi Mark, I'm interested in that comment about leaving out the middle undercoat. This leads to a few questions:

1. Why did you decide to put the middle coat on in the first place?

 

2. Is anything compromised by leaving off the middle coat?

 

3. Overall, how much time would be saved by not applying the middle undercoat?

 

4. How much weight would be saved if this middle undercoat was not sprayed on? (this one might be hard to estimate)

 

1: I used a paint system that air whitsunday use and they are in sea water all the time so I thought it would be the best

 

2: You need to use a undercoat if the top coat you are using requires it. This will be on the paint spec sheet

 

3: About 1 month at least, sanding that epoxy undercoat was a nightmare

 

4: I estimate I would save a lot. I left way too much undercoat still on the plane. The undercoat was really heavy it was wattyl PR250 maybe 5 to 8 kg

 

My etch was Wattyl super etch the undercoat was wattyl PR250 and the top coat was Protec AU625

 

PPG do a easier system the undercoat is a etch and then just the tup coat

 

 

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Im painting an RV 12 at the moment I do this for a living. I use a product called Prekote this preps the surface you dont need to etch primer if you use Prekote. The catch is you have 24 hours to prime once you have used the prekote. So you only prep what you can prime within that time. Even though I do this for a living Im very happy to help anyone out with free advice. [ATTACH=full]21571[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]21572[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]21573[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]21574[/ATTACH]All the above parts have been prekoted & ready for primer. Its not hard just time consuming Preperation.

So you use prekote then a undercoat and then a topcoat? so there is still a 3 coat system?....what about the PPG system only 2 coat system

 

 

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Hi Mark, I'm interested in that comment about leaving out the middle undercoat. This leads to a few questions:

1. Why did you decide to put the middle coat on in the first place?

 

2. Is anything compromised by leaving off the middle coat?

 

3. Overall, how much time would be saved by not applying the middle undercoat?

 

4. How much weight would be saved if this middle undercoat was not sprayed on? (this one might be hard to estimate)

Ahh, this is starting toventure into thread hijack territory. Maybe a new thread is in order.

 

 

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So you use prekote then a undercoat and then a topcoat? so there is still a 3 coat system?....what about the PPG system only 2 coat system

Prekote is a liquid you use with scotch brite you then wash the part down with water dry then prime. If the aircraft is painted in HS it is only 2 coats, If it is painted in COB then it is 3

 

 

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Nice paint job on the Sav! Back to the beloved Skyranger though! One good thing to think about is the balance of stol and cruise speed. I have always tended towards more stol but now am glad I have gone the Skyranger route! Even though my Swift will get off the deck and climb out at 1200-1300 fpm it still crusies around the 90kts. The Swift wing is lower profile than most chunky stol wings and it also has a higher wing load. The point being you don't get flogged as much in turbulent conditions. I can speak for the sav but compared to the foxbat the Skyranger is a much better ride and a little quicker too.

 

 

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