mAgNeToDrOp Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Can anyone recommend a kneeboard, or whatever they use during navex's. I am quite tall and flying the tecnam ( stick between the legs) I find my kneeboard ( asa tri fold strapped to right thigh) can interfere with the controls. I've just started my Nav training and I don't see this working for me. I've considered just the el cheapo folding a4 clipboard from officeworks but this will also interfere with the stick on my lap. Perhaps I can just use the a5 kneeboard without the folds or straps and make use of door pockets, dash etc for the extra bits I'm just interested to see what others use, esp taller pilots I.e 6'4". Cockpit management in the first few navs is a nightmare.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I have been using this one for many years with charts either tucked under my harness or in a plastic A4 folder. These days an iPad in a kneeboard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Every person finds their own method. I have always used side pockets with a smaller pad fixed to the panel at the side Give a thought to when we did it in open cockpits. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAgNeToDrOp Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 Thanks I like the smaller kneeboard idea and using the pockets. I'd hate t lose my map in an open cockpit, awkward moment if you don't have a spare....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compulsion Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I love my iPad Mini with a knee pad. A lot better in the cockpit than my ipad2. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAgNeToDrOp Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 True but you can't use the ipads for nav training ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 A5, keep it as small as possible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I have made easy to read checklists of common procedures or relevant frequencies and laminated them. I have a grease pencil (available on clear prop!) and tick things off as I go. It can be wiped with a tissue for the next time. Dry erase markers are no good because you can accidnetly wipe them off with your sleeve or if the list falls off your lap. As far as kneeboards go, i use that bifold one, but I am finding it a bit busy and mostly filled wtih stuff I don't need (phonetic alphabet? come on....) so I am on the lookout for something with easy to find info and that will accomodate my checklists. Good thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I'm just interested to see what others use, esp taller pilots I.e 6'4". Cockpit management in the first few navs is a nightmare.. Just wait until you do your solo nav, you have a whole spare seat to lay things out on. Don't be afraid to get your instructor to hold stuff as you will do this when you have a passenger down the track. Re the kneeboard, I just use an A5 size clip board with straps & use the map pockets for charts & wiz wheel etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oksinay Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I did the RA nav with an A4 clipboard and tied a pencil to the hanging ring,which worked fine, Recently got the VFR pack from CASA which included a neat little kneeboard and A5 route sheets. Passenger seat or lap is ideal storage space! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Years ago I manufactured a soft knee board that attached to the leg with wide Velcro. It had two separated clear plastic compartments that could be accessed separately, so that gave you three separate A5 size areas to look at as required. It was actually a copy of one used by the Mirage pilots, if fact some pilots used one on each leg. I did sell a few at the time, and I think I still have a couple laying around in a box somewhere. I am going through the process at the moment of removing my old trusty Garmin 12 from the Lightwing, and fitting a simple mount for my new IPad mini with Ozrunways installed. Boy I do like the instant wx radar button, which gives you instant route weather radar from bom superimposed over the map. The Lightwing has a very handy bar just ahead of the panel which is great for mounting stuff on..........Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVID SEE Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Years ago I manufactured a soft knee board that attached to the leg with wide Velcro. It had two separated clear plastic compartments that could be accessed separately, so that gave you three separate A5 size areas to look at as required. It was actually a copy of one used by the Mirage pilots, if fact some pilots used one on each leg.I did sell a few at the time, and I think I still have a couple laying around in a box somewhere. I am going through the process at the moment of removing my old trusty Garmin 12 from the Lightwing, and fitting a simple mount for my new IPad mini with Ozrunways installed. Boy I do like the instant wx radar button, which gives you instant route weather radar from bom superimposed over the map. The Lightwing has a very handy bar just ahead of the panel which is great for mounting stuff on..........Maj... Hi Maj. when you get it sorted, I'd appreciate a pic. of the finished job so I may copy your 'masterful engineering feat' if that's OK. Was good to catch up at Old Station, as always Cheers Davo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAgNeToDrOp Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 Cheers for all the suggestions I guess I'll find what works for me. I like the look of djpacros kneeboard. It seems the general drift is learn how to do it "properly" then use your ipad/ GPS etc.... If it fails use the old map and compass/ watch . Anyway I'm really getting a buzz out of this Nav stuff. Blows my mind that what we actually arrive overhead when we said we would. Cool stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 True but you can't use the ipads for nav training ;) Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAgNeToDrOp Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 Why not? Very good question, seems the FAA don't have a problem with it but what would they know right?, casa..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 CASA allows EFBs, refer the recent CAAP. Of course, manual methods must be learnt well first. Just like those who learn on an aeroplane with TSO'd GPS fitted, they are expected to be able to use it properly too. People should learn to operate the way they should after they get their licence. Of course, during the licence test expect the electronic gizmos to go U/S. Earlier this year I met at guy who had just finished his first nav after getting his ticket. Halfway along he was unsure of his position. Said he was taught nav properly but not taught how to use his GPS. He just decided to launch off just using his GPS instead of planning/navigating the way he knew how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 A5 flight plan page, and learn the art of cockpit origami! to keep map to same size. or, draw a quick mud map of the plan and keep the map in a door pocket or somewhere and put all nav info on mud map. something like this, but also make on where to see highways, towns etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballpoint 246niner Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I have numerous students who also struggle with this in Nav training, so rest assure your not alone Maggy drop, firstly make sure any knee board you use is on your left leg so you can rotate it out of the way when not required, eg in cct. Secondly go with a smaller one and as DJP says learn to fold the maps down to usable sections, next make sure your board has a clip so you can remove the map and look at it in front of you when orientating your position, ( map to ground)- this ensures you keep your head out of the cockpit! Last but not least if any system gets in the way of operating the controls then find something else, safety is paramount. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru7252 Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I guess the centre stick like the Jab, Savannah and Skyfox isn't such a bad idea then, although my plans get pretty hard to read when I use the left hand to make entries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldo Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Mag Drop The best method for anything is to be logical & organised and do the same thing each time you fly. Myself I use a foolscap folder, under the clip I have the plan (on top) followed by any en route notes that I think will be relevant (frequencies, distance to run for frequency & level changes, levels, runway directions etc.) with the weather including TAF's at the bottom. Write as many notes as you can before you get in the aeroplane it will make it much easier. I try to fold my charts in such a way that you only need to have an A5 size open at any one time and so that I can flick over the fold to continue the route (not always possible) and store them in the plastic pocket on the inside cover of the folder with your start point on the open page, WAC on top then VTC/VNC/ERC etc. (don't carry more than you need) I draw the routes directly on the charts and highlight them with a highlighter (during your NAV training it is amazing how difficult it is to find the route you have drawn on the chart with all the other lines on the chart), charts are cheap compared to being totally overloaded during your training, use route markers (I use 6 min markers as that's what I was taught but find something that you are comfortable with and use it every time). I'm not as tall as you but I find that I'm able to put the folder between myself and the door and it is easy to get access to, always wear a shirt with breast pockets, carry two (2) pens and a pencil, your wiz wheel, ruler & protractor will easily fit into the plastic pocket on the folder also. In RA I fly a Jab 230 Just my opinion, enjoy your flying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballpoint 246niner Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I guess the centre stick like the Jab, Savannah and Skyfox isn't such a bad idea then, although my plans get pretty hard to read when I use the left hand to make entries. A well trimmed plane can manage itself for a few seconds when notes are written 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 unless he writes with his left hand the way I do, in which case I'd be just as well trying to get my dog to write it for me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Keep it simple... And we pretty much all do this when we are learning to Navigate, we think we need everything including the kitchen with us. I use the CASA A5 knee pad with my flight plan on that, or just a piece of paper you can write flight numbers on, aircraft call signs, radio frequencies etc... Fuel management, i.e. left/right tank times. It's where you scribble things down, and that's the beauty about the backing board of a knee pad. I sometimes have another A4 clip board with maps on it if I'm going on a long trip just to keep them from getting lost, but normally I just have the map to my side or on the floor (depends on the aircraft of course) and if I need to, or want to clip it under the clip on the knee board you can do so. Tell you a story... I used to have the habit of map reading every 10 seconds or less, in other words I was constantly trying to make sure I was on track and effectively 'over' navigating. It was pointed out to me one day when I was flying with a very experienced pilot, and instructor. He said something to the effect; "when you're driving on a road with a road map on your lap, do you keep looking at the map even when you're on a straight road and you know you have to go 20klm along it to the next turn off?" My answer... "of course not!" 6 min markers, or 10 mile - whatever floats your boat are there to save you from over loading yourself for no reason. If you're on heading, and you just went over your last landmark and put the time down the map, put the map down and look outside, enjoy yourself! Watch that heading, keep and eye on the clock and look outside. Have fun, don't get lost and leave the kitchen sink at home. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru7252 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 A well trimmed plane can manage itself for a few seconds when notes are written Yes, in nice smooth conditions, but a well trimmed plane in hot lumpy weather and one tends to hang onto the stick without letting go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAgNeToDrOp Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Some great advice I'm sure it will help me and others starting out on cross country endorsements. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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