dazza 38 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 A kiwi oil rig worker working on a rig near Vietnam said he saw it, they may as well look where he thinks it is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Hmm, strange nobody has remarked on the Alien Mothership reported in the same area. Yeah real funny maybe some need to remember there is a lot of people missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Hmm, strange nobody has remarked on the Alien Mothership reported in the same area. I saw it. Probably just a coincidence though. rgmwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidc95 Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 OK, this is a head scratcher. So have I got this right that a paddock hopping ultralight has to carry an ELT but not necessary in an intercontinental travelling Boeing? And would it be regarded as paranoid to take your own GPS and ELT on an overseas flight? Commercial aircraft have heaps of failsafes - it's up to the captain to activate them. The fact they weren't activated (not to mention a lack of Mayday call) suggests something strange has happened. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deskpilot Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Yeah real funny maybe some need to remember there is a lot of people missing. Lighten up mate. Every suggestion put forward is just speculation on behalf of the writer, but we all feel for the friends and family of the lost ones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Turning off the transponder just removes the identifying call sign and altitude. The primary return should still be on the radar screen. The press seem to have missed this. All seems very strange. But probably a "simple" explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluey Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 The primary return relies on being painted by ground radar. The range of that would be in the order of 100nm for Malaysia. Beyond that the aircraft would be invisible unless military radar was operating in the area. It would have appeared on other radar north of Malaysia if it had continued flying in that direction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 It is probrably in northern Australia, we haven't got a flamin' clue who is coming and going up there! 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 If you wanted to go somewhere that wasn't on the flight plan, the ATC boundary between two countries would seem like a good place to slip away unnoticed. It's all very strange, to say the least. rgmwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 It is probrably in northern Australia, we haven't got a flamin' clue who is coming and going up there! The Jindalee Operational Radar Network (JORN) sees air and ship movements covering 37000 square kilometres north of Australia. It doesn't see far enough north to help in this case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 It is probrably in northern Australia, we haven't got a flamin' clue who is coming and going up there! I'm not saying Dazza is right or wrong or that is or isn't the system, but they can see an ant piss for a long way north of Australia. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 JORN can see approx. 3000KM from Australia's coast line. They say that it can see a aircraft as small as a Cessna 172 take off in East Timor 2600 KM away. This missing aircraft is of course a lot further away than that. Don't take my word for it, Google it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Yeah real funny maybe some need to remember there is a lot of people missing. Cant be more comedic than the circus "trying" to locate the poor buggers, bloody ridiculous all the speculation and rumours Matty 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluey Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 On a good day JORN can see Singapore. On a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
av8vfr Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 The Jindalee Operational Radar Network (JORN) sees air and ship movements covering 37000 square kilometres north of Australia. It doesn't see far enough north to help in this case. Well there you go... I always thought the O was for Over the horizon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodo Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 JORN is an OTH-B radar working ina very different frequency (HF), where the signals can be reflected off the ionosphere, allowing the OTH bit to work. Now, unless you send the transponder query on an HF frequency it won't go OTH, and aircraft transponders interested in HF don't exist. SO IF (and it is a big if), JORN has the range, it will see a great pile of blips around Singapore/KL. Which is your missing airliner? Your resolution is going to pretty poor once the signals have bounced three times before they meet the receiver. And HF won't get you great resolution anyway. Next, have a think about why Oz is about the only country still serious about OTH-B... it is because AEW aircraft to patrol northern Australia is impractical, due to the size of the place. AEW works a lot better, which is why everyone else uses it. All other OTH are from an era or location where ground radar and AEW aircraft could not give satisfactory coverage. Please stop imagining silver bullets and magic solutions to find this aircraft. Anyone who can help probably is (or has good reason). dodo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreywh Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Looking at all the facts revealed so far. The only thing I can imagine that fits those known facts is a person topping themselves or defecting and taking everyone else with them. The fact that the transponder went off, the fact aircraft changed direction after the transponder wnet offline and the fact of zero radio contact. 5 hours flying time is being reported as we speak , but I don't believe that , yet..... Were it a bomb someone would have seen the fire in the sky....Looks to me like a deliberate disappearing act.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 JORN is an OTH-B radar working ina very different frequency (HF), where the signals can be reflected off the ionosphere, allowing the OTH bit to work. Now, unless you send the transponder query on an HF frequency it won't go OTH, and aircraft transponders interested in HF don't exist.SO IF (and it is a big if), JORN has the range, it will see a great pile of blips around Singapore/KL. Which is your missing airliner? Your resolution is going to pretty poor once the signals have bounced three times before they meet the receiver. And HF won't get you great resolution anyway. Next, have a think about why Oz is about the only country still serious about OTH-B... it is because AEW aircraft to patrol northern Australia is impractical, due to the size of the place. AEW works a lot better, which is why everyone else uses it. All other OTH are from an era or location where ground radar and AEW aircraft could not give satisfactory coverage. Please stop imagining silver bullets and magic solutions to find this aircraft. Anyone who can help probably is (or has good reason). dodo Hang on, sorry you have lost me. I and others NEVER said that JORN had any part to play in the missing airliner. I was simply saying that Australia DOES know what happens to our north within 3000 kays . 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I was simply saying that Australia DOES know what happens to our north within 3000 kays . So all the Indonesian fishermen with their chooks and goats threatening our biosecurity, as reported on more than one occasion by indiginous rangers in northern Australia, are their with our blessing! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 So all the Indonesian fishermen with their chooks and goats threatening our biosecurity, as reported on more than one occasion by indiginous rangers in northern Australia, are their with our blessing! Yup, i am not saying anymore on the matter. I might get locked up . Lol Seriously though we probably have the best military radar system on the planet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodo Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Hang on, sorry you have lost me. I and others NEVER said that JORN had any part to play in the missing airliner. I was simply saying that Australia DOES know what happens to our north within 3000 kays . Sorry, I have been reading too many lunatic ideas on pprune dodo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 What we know. MH370 took off from KL bound for Beijing at 12:41am Saturday 8 March 2014 The last radio contact was at 1:07am & everything was operating normally Radar contact was lost at 1:22am Military radar reports an unidentified aircraft in the Malacca Strait not far from Phuket but could not confirm its identity or altitude. This is why the search area has been expanded. What is speculation. MH370 turned around It crashed It was hijacked What has been reported & since dismissed. Satellite pictures of debris An oil rig worker seeing a fireball Engines running for 4 more hours The 2 Iranians with stolen passports were asylum seekers not terrorists End of facts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluey Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 The engines running for 4 more hours is being disputed by Boeing as fact! This claim has not been disproved. From what I can tell the Malaysians don't know what's going on and probably shouldn't be in charge of the search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrogerramjet Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 From the grapevine.... Someone I know has been asked to write a supposition on what occurred... I note clearly this is complete hypothesis, based on general knowledge of the industry, assumptions and thoughts. I don't have any details on the accuracy of these statements, however it seems feasible to me... Boeing had issued a notice of stress fractures on the top of the fuselage (around the aerial?). Malaysia Airlines chose to not act on the advice as it was not a compulsory notice. The supposition is , this part of the aircraft gave way resulting in slow but steady decompression, this also dislodged the GPS and comms for radar identification, thus the airplane 'disappeared'. Auto pilot, without GPS, did it's best to fly on but slowly and surely dove the plane into the ocean some many hours from it's last known/reported position. Guess is to the East, as to the West it probably would have been picked up again on radar, and/or hit land. Because of slow and gradual decompression, both crew and passengers lulled into a slow, progressive sleep. The plane flew on for some hours until it hit the ocean and has sunk, some thousands of miles from the current search area. A hypothesis, nothing more. Ramjet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluey Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 From the grapevine....Someone I know has been asked to write a supposition on what occurred... I note clearly this is complete hypothesis, based on general knowledge of the industry, assumptions and thoughts. I don't have any details on the accuracy of these statements, however it seems feasible to me... Boeing had issued a notice of stress fractures on the top of the fuselage (around the aerial?). Malaysia Airlines chose to not act on the advice as it was not a compulsory notice. The supposition is , this part of the aircraft gave way resulting in slow but steady decompression, this also dislodged the GPS and comms for radar identification, thus the airplane 'disappeared'. Auto pilot, without GPS, did it's best to fly on but slowly and surely dove the plane into the ocean some many hours from it's last known/reported position. Guess is to the East, as to the West it probably would have been picked up again on radar, and/or hit land. Because of slow and gradual decompression, both crew and passengers lulled into a slow, progressive sleep. The plane flew on for some hours until it hit the ocean and has sunk, some thousands of miles from the current search area. A hypothesis, nothing more. Ramjet. This seems probable. Not sure about its direction and final destination but slow decompression is still the most likely explanation at this point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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