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Why some people need a nose wheel.


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Is a C185 a bit out of it's leauge in a STOL competition anyway?, The universe has spoken!

They are not in the strictly STOL category, but with the right technique they can be short fielded well and with a good payload. They are not super STOL like the highlander, or Hornet

 

And is it covered under insurance?

I would think so it was a landing at at least an ALA, just a little cocked up.

 

 

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The competition aspect might balls up the claim, was what I was thinking.

One would hope not.

Typical aero club competitions such as spot landings etc are covered by insurance, one would hope this would fall into the same category. It is a pseudo training exercise of sorts.

 

 

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............................. NZCAA report says pilot was unable to prevent plane from overturning ................... 1700 hours on type

 

Accident Brief, Occurrence # 08/3894

 

Registration: ZK-DXANature of Flight: PRIVATE OTHER

 

Aircraft Model: Cessna 180JPilot Licence: PPL (Aeroplane)

 

Date and Time: 14 Sep 08 at 14:39Pilot Age: 74 yrs

 

Location: HastingsFlying Hours (Total): 2900

 

POB: 1Flying Hours (on Type): 1700

 

Injuries (Fatal): nilLast 90 Days:

 

Injuries (Serious): nilTAIC Ref.:

 

Injuries (Minor): nilPublishing Ref.: Vector Sep/Oct 2009

 

Damage: SubstantialDate Published: 08 Jan 09

 

Synopsis:

 

The aircraft was attempting a short landing; on application of the brakes after landing, the pilot was unable to prevent the aircraft from overturning. The aircraft was substantially damaged, but the pilot was uninjured.

 

 

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Slow up the video and look where the elevator goes as the tail starts to rise. ...

 

.............. the pilot was unable to prevent the aircraft from overturning.....

But then - if you have the flaps deployed, apply the brakes heavily and shove the stick full forward all at the same time it does make it difficult to prevent the aircraft from overturning ...

 

 

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But then - if you have the flaps deployed, apply the brakes heavily and shove the stick full forward all at the same time it does make it difficult to prevent the aircraft from overturning ...

Unfortunate for someone with 1700hrs on type, that is a lot of C185 time, he would certainly know the aircraft. Maybe the seat moved forward and the seat belts were loose ... trying to think of what could have gone wrong with someone with that experience. Nice looking 185 and a lot of money to fix, especially that prop strike.

 

 

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What is the difference between a C180J and a C185?

The 180J fuselage is almost exactly the same dimensions as a C185 - same window configuration, same doorsill height agl - same gear legs. The 180J had the last of the 0-470-R engines. it was about 1970-75 or thereabouts. The next, and last model of the 180 was the K model from 1977 to 1984 and it had the lower revving 0-470-U engine with Slick mags. The C185's changed from IO-470 (260HP) engines in around 1967, to the IO-520 (285/300HP)model from then on. All the later models were known as A185 D,E,F etc. The early (1962-67) 260 HP models were known as 185A,B,C - there was no D onwards. An empty 185 with 300HP is a truly mean takeoff machine. It's also able to near 'hang' off the power for a very short landing. All you have to do is keep it in the right direction!

 

As far as I know, the shortest, and safest, short field landing in a 180 or 185 - is to 3 point them at the point of stall, using full flap and some power. That's what I was taught back in the 60's by a Chief Pilot who had more PNG and 180 type time than we'll collectively accumulate in our lifetime. I reckon he was on the money. Higher time pilots tend towards wheeling the 180/185 types on because of crosswind assistance, and they also are prone to showing off how coolly they can manoeuvre the aircraft with its' tailwheel still off the ground. I've seen some aggies 'taxy' off 06/24 at Jandakot onto the main taxyway - along several others and then place the tailwheel down where they wanted to park! Sometimes it can come unstuck! This might have been one of those unfortunate events.

 

happy days,

 

 

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If you end up slightly nose down and almost stopped and you still need braking with no power on, it won't matter where your elevator is. With no wind over it, it is just an ornament.. If you land 3 point at min speed hanging on the prop, I can't see how you would get into the problem. Nev

 

 

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Guest ozzie

I saw this happen once when a smartass 'don't tell me how to do it' jump pilot landed with the handbrake still on. He did cop an ear full.

 

 

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The 180J fuselage is almost exactly the same dimensions as a C185 - same window configuration, same doorsill height agl - same gear legs. The 180J had the last of the 0-470-R engines. it was about 1970-75 or thereabouts. The next, and last model of the 180 was the K model from 1977 to 1984 and it had the lower revving 0-470-U engine with Slick mags. The C185's changed from IO-470 (260HP) engines in around 1967, to the IO-520 (285/300HP)model from then on. All the later models were known as A185 D,E,F etc. The early (1962-67) 260 HP models were known as 185A,B,C - there was no D onwards. An empty 185 with 300HP is a truly mean takeoff machine. It's also able to near 'hang' off the power for a very short landing. All you have to do is keep it in the right direction!As far as I know, the shortest, and safest, short field landing in a 180 or 185 - is to 3 point them at the point of stall, using full flap and some power. That's what I was taught back in the 60's by a Chief Pilot who had more PNG and 180 type time than we'll collectively accumulate in our lifetime. I reckon he was on the money. Higher time pilots tend towards wheeling the 180/185 types on because of crosswind assistance, and they also are prone to showing off how coolly they can manoeuvre the aircraft with its' tailwheel still off the ground. I've seen some aggies 'taxy' off 06/24 at Jandakot onto the main taxyway - along several others and then place the tailwheel down where they wanted to park! Sometimes it can come unstuck! This might have been one of those unfortunate events.

 

happy days,

I think the 180's had smaller tail surfaces as well, not that it would matter here, could've been the size of the main wing and it would've still gone ar5e up

Matty

 

 

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I love the look of taildraggers but this does seem to be a bit of a problem. From motorbike riding days I know how easy it is to get the back wheel off the ground under braking, and that's with the full weight of the bike and not unsubstantial rider behind the pivot point. On an aircraft the wheels are close to the CG so it seems that a noseover would be far easier if the brakes were applied too firmly.

 

Think I'll stick with a nosewheel!

 

 

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I love the look of taildraggers but this does seem to be a bit of a problem. From motorbike riding days I know how easy it is to get the back wheel off the ground under braking, and that's with the full weight of the bike and not unsubstantial rider behind the pivot point. On an aircraft the wheels are close to the CG so it seems that a noseover would be far easier if the brakes were applied too firmly.Think I'll stick with a nosewheel!

That is why a nose wheel is considered inherently safer. rain.gif.5409f0367857047bb0ed70f1ff7b4d3b.gif

 

 

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