jetjr Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Yep insurers arent smart enough to see the difference in Jabiru AIRCRAFT and Jabiru ENGINES Not interested in insuring aircraft. Id assume a Jabiru engined other brand is OK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 About a month ago, a friend of mine couldn't find a LAME to do his 100hr/annual on his jab powered (VH exp) aircraft. None were interested at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 I couldn't find anything on Assett Insure's website about this issue. Has anyone checked back with the sources to determine if it is indeed true? ( a bit hard to do that on a weekend I guess) Was Geoffreywh's machinist insured with Assett Insure? I'm not doubting in any way what Jetjr or Geoffreywh have related in their posts, just wondering whether the action is limited to one company or is more widespread. Time will tell I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Others still insuring so no deep trouble yet but it illustrates the impact such claims and actions by regulators can have Possibly they are looking to reduce risks and any excuse will do. Normally they would just raise premiums 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Others still insuring so no deep trouble yet but it illustrates the impact such claims and actions by regulators can havePossibly they are looking to reduce risks and any excuse will do. Normally they would just raise premiums Yes. I noted that they have just recently been taken over by an larger concern so the new bosses (and bean counters) might be exercising their power. However, while it might just be one company, it only takes one firm to call "wolf!" to cause a panic in the community. Hold tight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreywh Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 My "Friendly" machinist tells me that His insurer (wont say who) doesn't want the extra liability risk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 It can be a decision from a reinsurer several companies behind the brands we know and love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 There is a move to monopoly in the Insurance game in this country. It should not have been allowed to happen. As to the insurers actions,I doubt they have done a proper actuarial study of their risk. Like many they assume CASA wouldn't have acted unless something was wrong of sufficient magnitude to single out one brand of engine and restrict it's application (when installed in a Jabiru aircraft and in certain use categories). Jabiru owners and repair people can go broke and it's just too bad. Tough luck mate. You have known my view of all this from the outset. What idiot(s) start something they don't know how to stop? The "normal" thing to do would be to raise the premiums. Again a precedent has been set. Are 2 strokes, historic planes, homebuilts etc NEXT.?Nev 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Most Australian insurers buy their cover from overseas, we are just too small a market to matter. I would have thought the restrictions, which are designed to increase safety and reduce the likelihood of a fatal accident, would have made Jabiru's more insurable not less. It could be that insurers are actually paying out a lot more on Jabs than other makes. As the Jab are starting to get older and more are getting closer to that magic 500hour mark, insurance companies are jumping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I was agreeing with you till 1/2 way, then it seems like speculation. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I suggest that it's quite possible that the company (/ies) involved, don't have the expertise to assess the actuarial risk and don't see it as in their interests to gain that understanding; after all, the ultralight market isn't large. I believe - though I am not sure of this - that Rod Stiff / Phil Ainsworth approached QBE very early in the development of Jabiru aircraft and gave them an education on the philosophy and the details of Jabiru construction, repair etc. and were able to negotiate a good rate of hull insurance. That was, I presume, the 'baseline', and if my understanding of how insurance works is correct, it has been adjusted in the light of experience. The incidence of claims resulting from improper operation of the aircraft has, without doubt, unreasonably inflated the cost of claims, thus affecting the actuarial risk. The lack of rigorous investigation of the actual causes of accidents /incidents has done nothing to alleviate the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I was agreeing with you till 1/2 way, then it seems like speculation. Nev We are all speculating Nev, no one is going to spill the beans. Bbut say $3000 a year premiums from 2000 Jabs still flying in Aus is $6M in revenue plus the small amount of revenue from LAMEs doing work on Jabirus wasn't enough to justify the payouts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Hull Insurance is only covering aircraft, not engine repairs, even at 20-30 full write offs it would appear to be excellent business The fact there has been only a few total losses each year one would expect they are doing quite well from us 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 QBE seem quite at ease to renew my insurance for my 19 registered Jab just this week. My no claim discount remains and there are no caveats to the cover. Methinks scuttlebutt prevails in the preceding posts regarding insurance. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenaviator Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 QBE seem quite at ease to renew my insurance for my 19 registered Jab just this week. My no claim discount remains and there are no caveats to the cover.Methinks scuttlebutt prevails in the preceding posts regarding insurance. Thanks for an actual report Diggler - all this rumour, doom and gloom from some is a real bummer. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Actual report versus what? Qbe are insuring mine too now but one of the only other options out there has refused to cover Jabiru aircraft anymore due to unreliability of engines. (Didnt matter that I dont have a Jabiru engine) If you dont think thats a big deal dream on. Forgot to mention QBE are much more expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Cheap rates aren't anything if they don't come good when a claim is made. The almost monopoly still has me worried. Ask repairers in the auto area what is going on. One mob cover nearly all of them. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Assettinsure payed up just fine on one loss Im aware of. The whole point is how fragile the RAA and aviation industry is to action by regulators. Effects of flawed action spread well outside intended targets. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 18 months today, I believe, since CASA dropped the bomb. Anyone care to comment on what that has achieved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tuncks Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 They have achieved my eternal enmity. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Just from what I can remember of accidents resulting in insurance claims that I have known about, there have been more total losses from Rotax engined planes than Jab engined planes. Looking at it another way there are a lot of idiots flying Rotax engined plnes and also I suppose Jab engined ones. The risk seems to be more aligned to the pilot than to the brand of plane or engine. After what CASA has done to Jab engines it is not surprising that insurers may think twice. How would an insurer talk to his shareholders to justify covering an engine that CASA has said is not reliable. The whole problem is that CASA went overboard in the usual tall poppy syndrome way to cut down an Australian success story. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreywh Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 you gotta be kidding 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Why? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Here's a link to the definition of Actuary on Wikipedia; from there you can go direct to a lot of sources to see how Insurance companies calculate their contingent liabilities. Hint: it's based on facts rather than hyperbole. Actuary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 They work with the data and advice they can get. In tiny niche markets thats near nothing so would pick up any data available or an informed point of view. Presently all that exists is from atsb and casa and at best its not enough to draw any conclusions from at worst tainted and full of errors. Yes i have worked with insurance companies providing advice setting premiums and exclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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