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And DUH lets have it on fathers day ! That goes down well with the family !

There was a lot of discussion about having it on this date within the SAAA many months ago. The choice was to have it that weekend with the attendance of the Federal Aviation Minister or to change it by a week. The decision was made to have it then but on the Friday and Saturday so that people could travel home for fathers day if needed.

I would ask though wouldn't taking Dad to an airshow be a great way to spend fathers day?

 

 

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IMHO a huge measure of success is if the traders want to come back next year. If the traders come both aviation and food, then it is likely that the people will come. Likewise if the people come, then it is likely that the traders will as well.

 

As for location, it is a flyin. So long as there is enough hard bed accommodation for those who want it then where it is shouldn't really matter. For those who do not want to fly in then it needs to be near enough to and RPT airport with suitable accommodation/car hire. I think Narromine in association with Dubbo just about covers that. As I say just my opinion but the one time I landed at Narromine, I thought it was a beautiful little town and lets face it the people in the country could do with some of our dollars.

 

 

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IMHO a huge measure of success is if the traders want to come back next year. If the traders come both aviation and food, then it is likely that the people will come. Likewise if the people come, then it is likely that the traders will as well.As for location, it is a flyin. So long as there is enough hard bed accommodation for those who want it then where it is shouldn't really matter. For those who do not want to fly in then it needs to be near enough to and RPT airport with suitable accommodation/car hire. I think Narromine in association with Dubbo just about covers that. As I say just my opinion but the one time I landed at Narromine, I thought it was a beautiful little town and lets face it the people in the country could do with some of our dollars.

I've had the conversation myself, someone say "I'm going to blah blah flyin, who's coming ?"

The reply invariably " not this time ,if it's any good I'll go next year" , and suddenly the flyin is not getting the most important resource ,Pilots and aircraft.

 

Why is Oshkosh and sun n fun world renowned ,the numbers,,,everything else flows from that, the first Natfly I went to was Temora ,6-700 aircraft I was told , heaps of displays ,heaps of food vendors ,a bit lacking in flying displays but it was the biggest flyin in the country ,,,,,,I spent the weekend catching up with mates from all over the country ,checked out the sales stuff , had a look in the museum , and got home to read how big of a failure it was,,,and it eventually was a failure , if we want great events then we have to support them , it is entirely up to us the pilots

 

 

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Having the Dividing Ranges between the major population centres and the fly-in will always reduce the number of pilots!

 

Also, if it were held later in the year (during Daylight Savings) some of us would have been able to get home afterwards. That's one of the main reasons I didn't go.

 

 

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These are just my thoughts on who comes to Ausfly and why they come. In thinking of what to change or where to hold it I think that it is useful to break it down logically.

 

There are 4 kinds of audience members at Ausfly:

 

1. The Entertained

 

These are the mum and dads with kids and a dog. They come to be entertained, watch the spectacle and marvel at the shiny aircraft. They would come to a car show or a steam tractor day if it was on, it just happens that today is an airshow. This sector is important as it is where in the long term potential builders and pilots come from. They are there for recreation and to get out of the house. They won’t drive 5 hours to get there, they probably won’t drive 2. If they come it is just for 1 day.

 

2. The Aviation Curious

 

These are the people who are into aviation but perhaps not this specific sector. They might fly professionally and are about to retire and are looking around. They might be the photography bufts who are there to spot aircraft. Or the Student pilot who is thinking of what to buy when they get their license. They want to try out some of the building techniques to see if it is for them. They will travel a reasonable distance to come to a show but will probably do it only once or twice. They either move into another category or don’t come again because there is “nothing new to see”.

 

3. Builders Underway

 

These people have committed to buying a kit and are building. They come to see completed examples of the aircraft they are building. They want information about building techniques, registering their aircraft, test flying... They are also looking to buy an engine or avionics and so are interested in what is available. They are into Aviation and will come a long way to see the show.

 

4. Flying Builders or buyers.

 

People who have built an aircraft or bought one flying come to meet up with their friends. People they have met at past events. If they are a recent builder they come to win awards and bask in the glory. Because they have an aircraft they will come a long away to go to the show. The “Journey” is as much part of the attraction as the end result.

 

So which groups were well looked after?

 

Ausfly at Narromine doesn’t cater that well to the first category of attendees. It is too far from a major population centre. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the event should be moved .When considering where to move it to there are not too many better options that don’t already have a major aviation event. Events like Wings of Illawarra, Avalon and the Evans Head fly-in cater to this market but it is important that there is a strong SAAA and RAAUS presence at these events to improve the profile of GA Aviation. Dubbo is close enough with access to RPT that Brisbane and Sydney are connected but given the commitment level of this goup it is unlikely that they would come.

 

The second category was reasonably well catered to at Narromine. There were quite a few sellers of RAAus aircraft. Other than Cirrus there were no GA aircraft manufacturers represented which is a little disappointing. There were displays by Aviation suppliers, airpark land sellers. The SAAA workshops give an introduction to building techniques.

 

The builders underway had pretty good options too. They could look at garmin, dynon and camit. There were talks that were relevant to them and there was quite a diverse range of aircraft that flew in.

 

Awards were given out for completed aircraft and there was a lot of good fun to be had socially at the event. The weather scared a few people off as getting back to the eastern side of the mountains on the Sunday was hard and the WA mob had some weather getting over. This is the luck of the draw and organizers cant do much about it other than picking the best possible time of the year.

 

In my way of thinking Ausfly needs to be about the last three groups of people. Making it about the first group is setting the event up for failure.

 

 

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Any coastal venue will be limited. It would probably be easier for most coastal people to cross the divide than dodge their way along the narrow coastal strip thru terrain and CTA choke points. Once you get west of the range it's usually a clear run.

 

 

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6-700 aircraft turned up at Temora for the first Natfly I went to,,,what went wrong, was it just bad pr, sour grapes? I thought it was great, and was surprised at the event being bagged, I think that has more to do with people going . We now have a dissection of AUSFLY and I can see the same remarks , what do we want or expect, what will it take for us to support an event , or are we collectively quite happy to not bother?

 

 

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Consider that you can't leave until after 1600, and that last light on the coast was in the order of 1810. Given the fairly low cloud base on the day, I don't think you would have made it home to anywhere east of the mountain, at least not with a margin of safety. Add in the queue to leave; how many people were off the ground before 1630?

 

 

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Th

 

Consider that you can't leave until after 1600, and that last light on the coast was in the order of 1810. Given the fairly low cloud base on the day, I don't think you would have made it home to anywhere east of the mountain, at least not with a margin of safety. Add in the queue to leave; how many people were off the ground before 1630?

The times were in the notams, why not plan to leave early Sunday, or stop somewhere

 

 

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The organizers were aware of the issue and the airshow finished spot on 3:45 and by 4:00 aircraft were streaming out. Having the airshow earlier in the day (or the same time later in the year) makes it worse for the spectators and photographers because you are looking into the sun.

 

In every hard decision there will be compromises to make, that's why they are hard decisions.

 

Edit. It depends what you fly but a jabiru would have had you back at the oaks or wedderburn by 17:40 about 30 minutes before last light. An Rv-7 or 10 and its earlier.

 

 

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The times were in the notams, why not plan to leave early Sunday, or stop somewhere

I know that the times were in the notams. I saw them, and decided that I wasn't going.

 

For me: I've never hired an aircraft for an overnight trip before. I don't know how many other pilots are in this category.

 

Secondly, there are some aircraft that just don't have the physical room to take overnight bags for two. So staying overnight isn't a great option.

 

I know that getthereitis is bad. So why set up the times to tempt getthereitis?

 

Temora is a reasonable day trip from both Melbourne and Sydney (200-250nm). Definitely not a day trip from Brisbane.

 

Narromine: Day trip from Sydney. 400nm from Melbourne/Brisbane - tight for a day trip.

 

Gunnedah: Day trip from Sydney/Brisbane. Too far from Melbourne to day trip unless you're rocketing.

 

 

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It depends what you fly but a jabiru would have had you back at the oaks or wedderburn by 17:40 about 30 minutes before last light. An Rv-7 or 10 and its earlier.

That's a fast jab or a bold jab pilot. The route I'd take (mittagong, west to avoid the mountains, then tracking via orange to narromine) is 205nm. In anything other than a J230 that's more than two hours. Otherwise there's a lot of tiger country to the west of the oaks, and cloud base was low enough that you couldn't use altitude.

 

 

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Why oh why do people who would seemingly never intend to attend sit back and throw arrows. They criticise, ridicule and throw up red herrings without contributing to the general cause of flying.

 

If you want to go, do it with planning. Otherwise crawl onto another site and waste their time. We want to be constructive not destructive.

 

End of rant.

 

 

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I wanted to go. I had a plane booked. I then looked at the weather, which was forecast to worsen, and the cloud base, and decided against it. If the temporary closure had finished half an hour earlier (1530 rather than 1600) that would have had more safety margin.

 

I understand it's a tradeoff. I'm just trying to say that leaving enough time afterwards to get back to Sydney comfortably, rather than making it tight, might have encouraged this little black dog and other pilots to go for the day.

 

 

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3.30 / 4pm only applies to locals.

 

When I attended Temora airshow for a Sat /Sun event, arrived Friday and planned out Monday. Weather turned crap so sat back and watched aerobatic practice for 2 days and returned home Wed/Thurs in perfect VFR weather via Toowoomba. (Over 900nm direct)

 

So concerns about early departures to a lot of us are funny. When flying VFR build in possible delays and enjoy the trip.

 

 

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Final observation: Jeez you guys are old. :-) I am "in transition" from bicycles/motorcycles and the demographic change is very stark.

3.30 / 4pm only applies to locals.When I attended Temora airshow for a Sat /Sun event, arrived Friday and planned out Monday. Weather turned crap so sat back and watched aerobatic practice for 2 days and returned home Wed/Thurs in perfect VFR weather via Toowoomba. (Over 900nm direct) So concerns about early departures to a lot of us are funny. When flying VFR build in possible delays and enjoy the trip.

And that is why it becomes a pastime of retired gentlemen. If you want to attract young people...

 

 

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These are just my thoughts on who comes to Ausfly and why they come. In thinking of what to change or where to hold it I think that it is useful to break it down logically.There are 4 kinds of audience members at Ausfly:

 

1. The Entertained

 

These are the mum and dads with kids and a dog. They come to be entertained, watch the spectacle and marvel at the shiny aircraft. They would come to a car show or a steam tractor day if it was on, it just happens that today is an airshow. This sector is important as it is where in the long term potential builders and pilots come from. They are there for recreation and to get out of the house. They won’t drive 5 hours to get there, they probably won’t drive 2. If they come it is just for 1 day.

 

2. The Aviation Curious

 

These are the people who are into aviation but perhaps not this specific sector. They might fly professionally and are about to retire and are looking around. They might be the photography bufts who are there to spot aircraft. Or the Student pilot who is thinking of what to buy when they get their license. They want to try out some of the building techniques to see if it is for them. They will travel a reasonable distance to come to a show but will probably do it only once or twice. They either move into another category or don’t come again because there is “nothing new to see”.

 

3. Builders Underway

 

These people have committed to buying a kit and are building. They come to see completed examples of the aircraft they are building. They want information about building techniques, registering their aircraft, test flying... They are also looking to buy an engine or avionics and so are interested in what is available. They are into Aviation and will come a long way to see the show.

 

4. Flying Builders or buyers.

 

People who have built an aircraft or bought one flying come to meet up with their friends. People they have met at past events. If they are a recent builder they come to win awards and bask in the glory. Because they have an aircraft they will come a long away to go to the show. The “Journey” is as much part of the attraction as the end result.

 

So which groups were well looked after?

 

Ausfly at Narromine doesn’t cater that well to the first category of attendees. It is too far from a major population centre. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the event should be moved .When considering where to move it to there are not too many better options that don’t already have a major aviation event. Events like Wings of Illawarra, Avalon and the Evans Head fly-in cater to this market but it is important that there is a strong SAAA and RAAUS presence at these events to improve the profile of GA Aviation. Dubbo is close enough with access to RPT that Brisbane and Sydney are connected but given the commitment level of this goup it is unlikely that they would come.

 

The second category was reasonably well catered to at Narromine. There were quite a few sellers of RAAus aircraft. Other than Cirrus there were no GA aircraft manufacturers represented which is a little disappointing. There were displays by Aviation suppliers, airpark land sellers. The SAAA workshops give an introduction to building techniques.

 

The builders underway had pretty good options too. They could look at garmin, dynon and camit. There were talks that were relevant to them and there was quite a diverse range of aircraft that flew in.

 

Awards were given out for completed aircraft and there was a lot of good fun to be had socially at the event. The weather scared a few people off as getting back to the eastern side of the mountains on the Sunday was hard and the WA mob had some weather getting over. This is the luck of the draw and organizers cant do much about it other than picking the best possible time of the year.

 

In my way of thinking Ausfly needs to be about the last three groups of people. Making it about the first group is setting the event up for failure.

Should be another category number 5

 

Folks who just want to fly, Keep current with navs etc.

 

PHIL.

 

 

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As for location, it is a flyin. .

Yup, "Regulars" - but I don't see how it brings new and future people/money into the sport being in such a remote location.

 

The bulk of the people there were flyers and I just don't see how that helps things move forward ....

 

 

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I think it a general consensus that AusFly 2015 was a success and that the organisers, hosts, volunteers, supporters and participants should be congratulated for contributing to making the event such a success.

 

Now that it has wound down, we can look at ways to make it better and I guess constructive feedback and suggestions are what will help guide the organisers for next years event preparation.

 

I posed the "where" aspect earlier and it looks like Narromine has a good measure of support as a venue.

 

With concern being raised about the time available to depart the venue and make it home before dark, perhaps the "when" aspect could be tossed around. It seems that a regular weekend means a lot of participants cannot arrive until Saturday morning and are committed to departing Sunday to get home. It also seems that such a tight schedule turned off a number of potential participants who wanted to attend but either could not or chose not to.

 

Is a long weekend a better option? Is a longer weekend such as the Easter break an even better option?

 

Let's assume that the venue remains as Narromine. What would people's preference be for dates for AusFly 2016? What weekend would you really be able to make an effort to bring your aircraft and/or yourself to AusFly.

 

PS. I am asking these questions because I know that some members of the SAAA National Council will read this thread and will consider people's suggestions and opinions that are expressed here.

 

 

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Guest Maj Millard
And that is why it becomes a pastime of retired gentlemen. If you want to attract young people...

Those same retired gentlemen get to make retirement because they make good flight decisions.....unlike some of the younger pilots.

 

 

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And that is why it becomes a pastime of retired gentlemen. If you want to attract young people...

Franks point wasn't age related...rather its a reality of VFR flying.......being young and determining you must be home before X oclock is, if you step back and look at it critically, simply suggesting that gethomeitis will likely be a factor publically before any accident has even occurred.......

 

If you want guarantees in recreational aviation then you have to shell out the big$ for the aircraft and the training that can perhaps go part way to providing that certainty (IFR), or keep your outings to a relatively short distance from home base.....

 

I recall flying Adelaide to Grafton about 6 years back when we moved interstate where flying time would normally be about 6.5hrs elapsed...it took 5 days as I followed a trough....that's the reality of VFR flying, Never have you moved so quickly across the ground yet had an elapsed time average speed closely approximating a donkey!

 

 

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The organizers were aware of the issue and the airshow finished spot on 3:45 and by 4:00 aircraft were streaming out. Having the airshow earlier in the day (or the same time later in the year) makes it worse for the spectators and photographers because you are looking into the sun.

I was there with my 6yr old, looking into the sun was not an option, I had to stand under an awning to protect my son's eyes, we only saw the lower half of the display.

 

 

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Those same retired gentlemen get to make retirement because they make good flight decisions.....unlike some of the younger pilots.

Franks point wasn't age related...rather its a reality of VFR flying.......being young and determining you must be home before X oclock is, if you step back and look at it critically, simply suggesting that gethomeitis will likely be a factor publically before any accident has even occurred.......If you want guarantees in recreational aviation then you have to shell out the big$ for the aircraft and the training that can perhaps go part way to providing that certainty (IFR), or keep your outings to a relatively short distance from home base.....

I'm planning on doing that (NVFR/IFR training), but when I was looking at the NOTAM times, I determined that I would go if the weather was forecast to be perfect. As it was I stayed fairly close to home base instead and I'm glad I did because the weather deteriorated rather badly and I drove through cloud on the escarpment on the way home.

 

I'm not saying that I will suffer from gethomeititis. I'm saying that the potential for that is causing stayathomeitis, and if you want young pilots to come to things...

 

As for dates: I don't know about other states, but there's a long weekend coming up.

 

 

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