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Yup, "Regulars" - but I don't see how it brings new and future people/money into the sport being in such a remote location.The bulk of the people there were flyers and I just don't see how that helps things move forward ....

You have said that it should be moved twice. Where should it be moved to?

 

 

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Coastal weather is what held you from coming - why suggest holding it there?

 

Also for many flying to the Hunter and other areas means stuffing around with CTA or RA

 

This location debate has been discussed at length, Narromine keeps coming back as the best compromise.

 

Location and timing are impossible to please everybody, there is only a few weekends it can reasonably be on.

 

Being Spring with superb inland weather means every other event is often planned then too

 

Its a two or three day event, your not going to do it in a day. Flying any small aircraft VFR you had better not have fixed timing plans.

 

Just make the effort and turn up or like Natfly it simply will disappear.

 

We need one event for ALL small players in aviation, having Skidmore and Truss turn up shows they see the size and importance and this is critical to our survival.

 

For info - Dubbo now has 8 flights per day to Sydney, 6 flights per week to Brisbane and shortly 3 flights per week to Melbourne, All around 1 hr flight time.

 

If the biggest complaint is the wait for steak sandwich, then it went pretty well. Remember nearly all those caterers were volunteers.

 

 

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Its not just a matter of parking the aircraft. You need hangar space to have the presentations and workshops, facilities for camping, suitable display lines for an airshow and a reasonable certainty for good weather.

 

Mainland also already has the Hunter Valley airshow and past experience suggests that having 2 events per year at one location just dilutes the volunteer support and both events eventually die.

 

 

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Well.... I had a blast! Me and my wife traveled from WA to make AUSFLY this year. We got held up by weather for 2 days, and we still made it.

 

It was a great event and great success! and the adventure getting there was what it was all about. I was probably among the youngest builder/pilots there. There is nothing worse than grumpy pilots whingeing and complaining about these event, that's what turn the younger generation away.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Well.... I had a blast! Me and my wife traveled from WA to make AUSFLY this year. We got held up by weather for 2 days, and we still made it.It was a great event and great success! and the adventure getting there was what it was all about. I was probably among the youngest builder/pilots there. There is nothing worse than grumpy pilots whingeing and complaining about these event, that's what turn the younger generation away.

Good on You!!!

 

For someone like yourself to make such a committment & effort to support an event like this makes many of the other's negative comments look nothing short of ordinary.

 

Whether or not you attend an event like this is purely down to committment & whether or not you enjoy it comes down to your attitude.

 

Some years ago Ian Baker organised a fly-in for us forumites at Eucha Victoria. I flew down from Hervey Bay Qld and arrived Friday just before it started to rain. Not much else arrived and just about nothing happened for the rest of the weekend. It took 4 days of chasing weather to get home. Lots of things not good about that whole effort but I don't focus on them or complain about it. Instead I still look back fondly at that trip & am thankful that Ian went to the effort to put it on. We still had some fun, met some good people & I learnt plenty during the flight.

 

Unfortunately I didn't make Ausfly, trust me I would have rathered been there than moving house.

 

I just hope there is enough support for the event so that I get the chance to go next year.

 

 

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Apart from the "moving" posts I still think we've got to change how we see these events , the idea that the event exists to promote or further aviation is probably a part of the problem, do we ever wonder why there's no need to promote sex, I mean there's toys shops and the like ,but you really don't have to convince people it's worth the effort.

 

So if we use the same principle with any other past time we might find the best way to promote something is for others to see it's pretty damn fun. Oshkosh last year there's a heap of pilots who were doing free joyflights ,non stop ,for the week , and everyone who went for a lap had a big grin,,,,,sex is good !

 

So perhaps if ,instead of seeing the event as a big PR oppurtunity , we turn up , in our planes where possible , and have fun,, chat with mates, chat with strangers, even take them for a flight if you want , just ENJOY what is meant to be our passion ,,,,,,,,and that would do several things ,,,it would make for great experiences ,friendships and memories ,,,,,, passion is contagious ,by just being passionate we would promote our sport by simply being happy.

 

Think about what's the best memories some of you have from the past events ( mangalore , Narromine ) was it the deep satisfaction that you'd done a bang up job promoting the sport ,,,,or was it's the flying ,the mateship, the camping ,drinks around the tents after the suns gone, the tall stories ,the plans for the future adventures,,,,,,

 

 

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That plane doesn't look like C172 and I bet it doesn't fly like one.

 

As for the knockers, they are never happy unless they have something to complain about. Just ignore them.

 

 

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Time to spare go by air, if no time to spare, go by car, as i did, and many others, from as far away as Adelaide, Melbourne and Brisbane.

 

Unfortunately there was a lot of whinging around the place, and its hard not to get caught up in it, but myself, and a lot of others are trying to turn that around, and after this years Ausfly, and the change in attitude from CASA, hopefully, things will only get better.

 

i have bene told by others well more travelled than i, that this negativity in general aviation, and the division between RAA, GA and commercial, only exists in Australia.

 

for things to improve, so must attitudes, and fortunately, CASA has seamed to change, now its up to us.

 

 

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Apart from the "moving" posts I still think we've got to change how we see these events , the idea that the event exists to promote or further aviation is probably a part of the problem......Think about what's the best memories some of you have from the past events ( mangalore , Narromine ) was it the deep satisfaction that you'd done a bang up job promoting the sport ,,,,or was it's the flying ,the mateship, the camping ,drinks around the tents after the suns gone, the tall stories ,the plans for the future adventures,,,,,,

Great post Metalman and one which has struck a chord with many, based on the number of Agrees and Likes that your post received.

 

There appears to be a strong feeling that an event such as AusFly should be for the benefit of members/participants/enthusiasts, with a very low priority being for the promotion of our past-time with the general public.

 

This is important for the "where" aspect because accessibility/suitability for the participants has an overwhelmingly greater importance than accessibility/suitability for the general public. Narromine ticks this box because it is close to no single major city but is central to all and the infrastructure and facilities that it offers suits what the participants want and need (of course we can continue to improve facilities and services to provide an enhanced experience for the participants). The terrific support of the local council and the local community are also very positive factors for Narromine.

 

So what can be done to enhance the members experiences at AusFly, given that Metalmans idea of a great flyin have struck a chord with many?

 

Perhaps more permanent good quality onsite shower/toilet facilities would be beneficial? Additional catering facilities has already been mentioned. Perhaps a temporary bar facility to cater for the campers (if allowed)? Perhaps hold a spot landing competition one morning? (They are always entertaining and fun!) Perhaps hold a barn dance in one of the hangars on the Saturday night where the drinkers can drink and the John Travolta wannabes can dance and the SAAA members can adjourn to after their dinner/AGM for some general festivities?

 

What initiatives can be introduced to AusFly to enhance the experience and the memories? Let's have some suggestions.

 

As for the knockers, they are never happy unless they have something to complain about. Just ignore them.

Let's consider them constructive criticisms rather than complaints. Constructive input and suggestions should be welcomed in order to improve the future experience for everyone.

 

Again, the general consensus was that AusFly 2015 was a terrific experience for the participants and full credit must go to everyone for making it so.

 

 

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Now we're talking ,,,making memories :-)

 

Barn dance BBQ ,,,,very informal ,,,cool

 

Flying comps are great to watch, and compete in,love it!

 

Give the aircraft sales people a slot to display their aircraft.

 

On a three day weekend run an observation rallying one morning,,,maybe an hour nav ,see the area without needing to "arrive"

 

Make it easy for people to give anyone who desires a quick lap

 

Break up the airshow ,a morning session and an arvo one so peeps can scoot if needed,,,maybe some fireworks one night ( maybe expensive ,but if it grows into something big)

 

And it really doesn't matter if it's on a public holiday,,,taking a Friday and Monday off if you've got plenty of notice and it planned forisn't huge ,Oshkosh is an ordinary week ( and it's in the middle of no where to ,relatively ) ,

 

 

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Just my 10 cents worth but I believe all the players need to get fair dinkum about this. How about pool money and pay someone $100K a year to organise this. Spread across all the associations, I believe it would be money well spent.

 

The first Temora Natfly had movies shown on the side of a hangar, a bar for the campers, really good workshops presented by LAME's, the chance to get hands on while they were building an aircraft over the event. As a builder, thats what I want. I dont give a toss about looking at new aircraft but some of you will. Rotax wasnt even there this year. One of the major players in our hobby. I am a builder and I want to be able to see and touch product. Although a nice glass package is pretty to look at, its not for the vintage aircraft I am building.

 

How about paying suppliers to come! Thats a novel idea! Its expensive enough in fuel and accommodation. Lets make it attractive for them to come. Spend money to make money guys! Its not rocket science.

 

I want workshops where I can participate in. Making cables, wiring an instrument panel, how to use a torque wrench, actually building with some wood. Not being told "anything I need to know about building a wood aircraft is in AC43". I knew that but would have loved to have some hands on stuff. The highlight of Ausfly was catching up with all mates. The rest was blah.....

 

Scotty

 

 

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:So criteria we are looking for are:Half way between Brisie & Melbourne.

1 hour from major town.

 

Narromine!

Orange or Cudal

Plus there is RPT, trains, buses to Orange

 

 

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I know that the times were in the notams. I saw them, and decided that I wasn't going.For me: I've never hired an aircraft for an overnight trip before. I don't know how many other pilots are in this category.

 

Secondly, there are some aircraft that just don't have the physical room to take overnight bags for two. So staying overnight isn't a great option.

 

I know that getthereitis is bad. So why set up the times to tempt getthereitis?

 

Temora is a reasonable day trip from both Melbourne and Sydney (200-250nm). Definitely not a day trip from Brisbane.

 

Narromine: Day trip from Sydney. 400nm from Melbourne/Brisbane - tight for a day trip.

 

Gunnedah: Day trip from Sydney/Brisbane. Too far from Melbourne to day trip unless you're rocketing.

In a lot of cases you don't have to plan for an overnight trip, the weather plans it for you. My first day trip to Orange turned out to be a 4 day visit while I waited for the weather in the Sydney Basin to clear and for the strip at The Oaks to dry out. Luckily my brother had a decent cellar of wine.

Time to spare, go by air!!

 

 

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Not sure about paying suppliers to come but I have heard ridiculous costs for a patch of dirt, maybe make it free to display something you'd get a better response, or give the sponsor a free spot and they give prize money,trophy for the flying competitions ,,,,there's no cost for the flyin and to suppliers get a years worth of advertising on a trophy, win win !

 

 

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Accommodation is the biggest problem imo. I was going to go to Narromine but a quick ring around and I soon discovered there was no accommodation anywhere, Dubbo was even a problem. Unless you have a lot of beds in the area that are easy to get to and don't require long bus trips etc. then it is hard to get people who are beyond camping to attend.

 

I spoke to one exhibitor last week who did not go this year but had been in previous years and he mentioned the thing about accommodation saying it is snapped up by those in the know even before the event is advertised, then you get charged a whole heap of money for a piece of dirt and he said Ausfly two or three years ago they gave out only two brochures even when having three aircraft on display. Then he mentioned the CASA ramp checks scaring people away and stopping them from flying in and so on.

 

He continually said people simply don't attend like they used to and he mentioned after several years of spending thousands of dollars to attend each event it simply isn't worth the zero return and all of this came from a large aircraft importer. He said it was more beneficial to give the same amount of money to attend one of these events as a discount to a new customer and be guaranteed of selling a plane, it kind of makes sense.

 

 

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If Aust Flying Mags article is correct, the we can expect MORE attention from CASA at fly-ins. Sounds like building an empire around the section now run by Ungermann?

 

"According to the Corporate Plan, CASA has identified recreational aviation as a key challenge, and will introduce modern regulations, have an increased presence at sport and recreational events such as air shows, and help RAAOs with enforcement action on non-compliant operators."

 

 

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There's a significant difference between someone actually operating illegally and CAsA saying they're operating illegally.

 

Cross-reference their own "Ramp check advice for GA pilots" with the CAR's and you'll see what I mean.

 

CAsA sez you must carry photo ID. I'm not aware of any legislation in the country - aviation or otherwise - that says so. Licence/PC, certainly, but photo ID?

 

CAsA sez you must maintain a Nav & Fuel log. CAR78 says you don't have to, only a log "sufficient to enable you to determine position at any time".

 

CAsA sez you must be compliant with FTDL's, but how do they prove it without your logbook - which you are not obligated to produce on the day?

 

CAsA references CAR5.108 for currency requirements - but it only applies to Commercial operators...

 

CAsA references CAO82.0 for EFB use, but that only applies to Commercial operations.

 

And that's just for starters. IF they can't get their own house in order, what hope have the rest of us got?!?

 

 

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and we end up in the situation where the CASA inspectors are incurring traveling and overtime expenses to visit flyins, so they are expected to issue a certain number of violations to justify the expense of field trips. Its a vicious cycle, the more people they put into the field the more the need to prosecute pilots. we could end up in the situation like the state police and speeding tickets

 

 

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I will say it again slowly for you:

 

As far as I know at Ausfly 2015 CASA did not do any ramp checks.

 

Over 400 aircraft turned up and a lot of people had a great time.

 

http://www.australianflying.com.au/news/ausfly-2015-draws-a-crowd

 

Stop being so grumpy, If you have genuine suggestions about improving the event pass them on to the organizers. If you just want to complain about everything to do with aviation take up golf.

 

 

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Coastal weather is what held you from coming - why suggest holding it there?

I didn't say coastal weather, I said weather over the divide. Crossing the dividing range makes you much more subject to weather than staying on your side of it. So if you want the 75% of Australia that lives east/south of the ranges, don't make them cross Kilmore Gap/Bowral/etc.

 

 

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I will say it again slowly for you:As far as I know at Ausfly 2015 CASA did not do any ramp checks.

That's great. They didn't do ramp checks, this time. Even if they did, I know I am legal, but that doesn't mean CAsA does, when they don't know their own rules.Now, I will say it slowly for you...No one is claiming CAsA did ramp checks at AusFly!

 

But the comment was made the concern of CAsA doing ramp checks is enough to keep some people away (whether or not they are actually contravening the rules), and I agree with that sentiment. As I showed above, CAsA's guidance to GA pilots for ramp checks is fundamentally flawed, and if they do not know their own rules, or attempt to enforce their own thinking over and above legislation during a ramp check, then that is enough to deter some pilots.

 

When was the last time you were told you must carry photo ID as a pilot? But that is what CAsA are saying. Where's the CAR that says so? As best I can tell, there isn't one, but if you don't produce photo ID to a CAsA FOI during a ramp check "Well, you've broken the rules, buddy boy, because we say you must carry it...Here's your $3,500 'administrative fine', Merry Christmas!"

 

Had the RV been ready, I would have gone myself, but you tell me the kind of attention I would get from CAsA showing up in an RV-9A with telephone numbers on the side, whether or not they classed it as a "ramp check". Again, I know I am legal. I can prove I am legal. But that means nothing for someone who insists that an "RV is too heavy for RAAus, particularly when registered with two seats". You only have to look at the grief RAAus themselves caused me because they didn't understand the very legislation they administer. That's since sorted, but if RAAus (who you would think would have a pretty good understanding of CAO95.55) what hope does one have with CAsA?

 

IT isn't that they may or may not do ramp checks that is the problem. If there was consistency and a genuine Good Cop approach to it, there wouldn't be the stigma that is associated with them. But, unfortunately, CAsA has taken a different view and the result is, sadly, some pilots prefer not to attend events such as these to avoid that kid of confrontation, even though they have done nothing wrong.

 

 

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