CAN WE HAVE RETRACTABLES

[Guest disperse]

I was under the opinion that we could have retractable landing gear.

 

can anyone tell me what categories we can and can't have retractables in ???

 

 

[Captain]

G'day disperse,

 

The Alpi Pioneer 300, for one, has retracts.

 

So yes we can but not in LSA as I understand it.

 

Someone more knowledgeable can add more detail and definition.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Captain is on the money. There are a few retracts on the register, including Alpi's, Sting, KR and a couple of others, but no LSA's unfortunately, unless they are amphibs.

 

 

[Guest disperse]

THANKS ALL. was talking to a importer today and he was adiment that we couldn,t

 

Then I remembered the sabre in this months mag, that has retrac's

 

Troy

 

 

[Guest palexxxx]

Captain is on the money. There are a few retracts on the register, including Alpi's, Sting, KR and a couple of others, but no LSA's unfortunately, unless they are amphibs.

So, if they can't be LSA's, what are they registered as?

 

Peter.

 

 

[Guest disperse]

This is what I was told this arve. 19xxxx Experimental kit / 24xxxx experimental factory built. but you do have the 544kg weight limit.

 

PLEASE CORRECT ME IF THIS IS WRONG

 

 

[Captain]

You are spot-on, Troy.

 

 

[Guest palexxxx]

This is what I was told this arve. 19xxxx Experimental kit / 24xxxx experimental factory built. but you do have the 544kg weight limit.PLEASE CORRECT ME IF THIS IS WRONG

So, does this mean that you need a full GA licence and not a LSA certificate?

 

Peter.

 

 

[hihosland]

As I understand it

 

GA PPL can fly anything up to 5700kg that is VH registered but need endorsement for

 

retracts, constant speed prop, floats, multi engines.

 

RAA cert fly anything up to 544kg (600 on floats) that is registered under RAA including retracts, sep endorsements for PPC, weight shift, 3 axis, tail dragger, floats.

 

No constant speed and no multi engine

 

LSA ticket I presume permits one to fly LSA registered aircraft which excludes multi engines , retracts and variable pitch props.

 

I am ready to be corrected

 

Davidh

 

 

[Admin]

I think we need to have a look at the differentiation between "allowed" and "Endorsements". Offcourse the over riding thing is whether the aircraft has been certified with the option in question plus when we start talking LSA then that is different again.

 

For standard RAAus "up to" a max of 544kg MTOW except when using floats:

 

Floats need an endorsement.

 

Retracts are allowed (for LSA - not allowed and no endorsement)

 

Constant Speed Prop is allowed.

 

Tail Dragger needs an endorsement

 

Multi Engine is not allowed and there isn't any endorsement.

 

Hope this helps!

 

 

[Guest disperse]

So, does this mean that you need a full GA licence and not a LSA certificate?Peter.

NO !!! ........ these rego's are RA-AUS rego's. So all you need is a RA-AUS license (ultralights)

 

let me just add. "Ultralights"(Recreational aircraft) are not necessarily "Light Sport Aircraft" There are two governing bodies RA-AUS and CASR (general aviation) . While CASR are the big boss, RA-AUS run the recreational side of things. so to register a aircraft as recreational, one would go through Ra-aus and get there license through them as well

 

From what I can gather a LSA plane can be registered in either RA-AUS or GA ..... so I'm "guessing" that they can be flown with either license.

 

now the LSA is something I'm not real familier with...

 

 

[Admin]

so I'm "guessing" that they can be flown with either license.

Troy - if you have an RAAus Certificate you can only fly an RAAus registered LSA. If you have your PPL then you can only fly an LSA that has VH registration. If you have both an RAAus Certificate and a PPL then you can then fly either.

 

 

[vk3auu]

As I understand it, there is not yet a legal LSA category for a start and when there is, retracts will be either GA or if under 544 kg, GA or RaAus with appropriate licence/certificate but definitely not LSA.

 

David

 

 

[Matt]

There is indeed an LSA category and the first aircraft registered under the new regulations was a Sportstar in May 2006. At present there are 21 aircraft registered in the LSA category, pilots require a PPL and CASA are the current administrators of the LSA category.

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

There is indeed an LSA category and the first aircraft registered under the new regulations was a Sportstar in May 2006. At present there are 21 aircraft registered in the LSA category, pilots require a PPL and CASA are the current administrators of the LSA category.

Ahhh...Yes and No:

 

There is an LSA category as Matt says and a/c are being registered in it. But:

 

1. Aircraft can be registered either RAAus or VH;
    
    
   
2. Once registered they are submitted to a CASA delegate who inspects a/c and documentation. If he/she deems everything is OK then (for factory built) a SLSA Certificate of Airworthiness is issued;
    
    
   
3. This is forwarded to the registration authority - either RAAus or CASA and they upgrade the registration to full rego;
    
    
   
4. The pilot must be licensed/certificated appropriate to the registration. So for RAAus registered a/c it needs to be a RAAus Pilot Certificate and for VH rego it needs to be a PPL or better;
    
   

 

There is much confusion about LSA, including from some in CASA and some of the CASA delegates who are charged with doing the Cs of A.

 

The key point about LSA is that the airworthiness authority for any LSA a/c is the manufacturer. This is in distinct contrast to any other a/c where the airworthiness authority is either CASA or their delegated organisation (and equivalent NAAs in other countries).

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[hihosland]

Mike did say

 

" The key point about LSA is that the airworthiness authority for any LSA a/c is the manufacturer."

 

So what happens re the airworthiness when/if the manufacturer ceases operations?

 

Does that aircraft effectively become an "VH experimental" or "RAA 24-****" ?

 

Davidh

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

Hi David,

 

In the event that the manufacturer ceases to operate CASA can appoint someone else appropriate or the a/c become entitled to an Experimental LSA C of A = 19-xxxx RAAus.

 

That might for instance be a suitable maintenance organisation, a distributor or some other approved organisation.

 

The SLSA C of A = 24-xxxx RAAus.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Guest brentc]

It will become experimental if the aircraft manufacturer drops off the face of the earth (unless someone takes over as per above post), but that being said if it's able to fit into the 544kg mtow limit and you can provide all paperwork I see no reason why it can't be RA registered again at the lesser weight. Unless there's something in there that says once LSA registered then never registered again - doubt that though.

 

 

[TechMan]

That depends Brent. If the aircraft was a special LSA (Factory built and factory certified) and the manufacturer ceases to exist, then it will indeed become experimental LSA. The change over to Amateur Built is not possible, as it was a factory built aircraft and does not comply to the major portion rule (51%).

 

The other side is that a once factory built LSA cannot be brought into the Factory Built clause as there is no type certificate for the aircraft and there is no authority that will put their hand up and take responsibility for the aircraft and its continuing airworthiness.

 

An ELSA could be argued that it meets the requirements of the major portion rule, though the proof will be once the builders log is inspected as to how much was actually completed by the builder (remembering that there is no 51% requirement for ELSA).

 

Therefore, you will generally find that once an LSA, always an LSA (of some kind).

 

Chris

 

 

[hihosland]

So

 

Where is the benefit-of/need-for LSA in Australia?.

 

It seems to me that in the USA the LSA category was created to resolve a problem that existed in the States but not here in Australia.

 

Our 24-**** RAAus category meets rec aviation needs adequately in Australia.

 

Is there any other advantage in LSA other than 600kg ? A benefit that can be more easily gained by increasing the RAAus MTOW to 600 and ignoring the LSA category al together.

 

Or am I missing something here?

 

Davidh

 

 

[Admin]

Exactly David - to me the only advantage is the 600kg which must be traded off against the negatives.

 

With my CT which is certified at 600 I still went for the standard RAAus 544 although I believe that in cases like this we should be allowed to offset the weight with safety items when we have excess weight capability. For example if you say have a ballistic chute that weighs 20kg then my CT should be allowed to be 544 + 20 for the chute to a max of the certified MTOW.

 

If/when the RAAus does go to 750kg then I personally believe the LSA category will become defunct - just my thoughts!

 

 

[TechMan]

SoWhere is the benefit-of/need-for LSA in Australia?.

David,

 

The benefit lies with the manufacturer's and home builders who would rather have the aircraft cheque book built.

 

Manufacturer's no longer have to go through the pain staking process of having their aircraft certified, which costs numerous of millions of dollars. You can ask Jabiru for the cost estimate of what it took to get the J160C through, along with ridiculous farnarcle requirements and double standards that CASA like to impose.

 

Manufacturer's can now declare that the aircraft is built to an acceptable standard, which suits CASA fine as they take no responsibility for the aircraft. If anything goes wrong, it's on the manufacturer's head.

 

The other advantage is that some people who like to do some things by themselves can buy a kit at any stage of completion from the manufacturer and register it as experimental LSA. As long as the aircraft still meets the requirements for the LSA category, there isn't an issue. However, if an experimental aircraft is modified with Retracts, or a turbine engine, then the aircraft can be put on a pole, as there is no category for it.

 

In essence, manufacturer's like the LSA category, but for benefits, the current factory built / amateur built system is more than adequate, especially once we get Part 103 through (600kg), or perhaps if 750kg ever gets through.

 

Regards

 

Chris