Admin Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 As you may know the development of the new site is underway and it has been following proper project management processes simply because of the size of the changes and the cost. So, I have quickly whipped up a Project Brief document that outlines the high level requirements of the project that I hope you will find interesting in terms of communication to you, the users, and the impacts the major changes will have. I very much value your input so please make any comments that you like so I can take them on board. The Project Brief is attached Project Brief - Recreational Flying Expo.docx Project Brief - Recreational Flying Expo.docx Project Brief - Recreational Flying Expo.docx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 UPDATE I have been reviewing and analysing different platform for the Expo component of the site update which I have found several that I am evaluating: 1. Hyperfair This is a great 3D expo platform that I really like however there is one big negative with it...currently it can only be used on PC's and not mobile devices like tablets and phones due to the technologies that these devices use however a mobile version I am told is in the works: 3. I have an online meeting this evening with an overseas development group to discuss the potential of having a in-house developed solution that is NOT 3D but is integrated into this site as a site developed section (like the Aircraft section) but with some COTS (Commercial Of The Shelf) solutions tied into it like instant booth communication etc. This is a very much low cost option however I feel it will not have the pizzazz that a 3D expo would have. As always, trying to keep you informed and welcoming any comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Don't take this personally but I really hope this concept doesn't come back to bite you in the bum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 So do I BUT...As I tell my kids, better to have tried and failed than to never have tried at all 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGL Fox Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Hi Ian, Yes you do need to reinvigorate the website from time to time, I am not sure if a forum based website like this one would be big enough for you to earn a full time living from it but as you say you need to give it a try... I would like to say to you, why not a user pays membership subscription fee to help with your costs, $5.00 a year or to get you a kick start ask the members for a $50 one off fee and $5.00 per year after that, some won't like it and you may loose them but if as you say you have 10,000 registered members even if 50% give you the one off $50 that's $250,000, that should help you to upgrade and cover your costs for a while. Like I said, you will probably loose some members but I think your site is very well established and with a loyal following and I am sure if you explained to everyone what the money will do for them, as the end user, the fair minded people will fork it out and let's face it there is nowhere else to go for Rec Flying info etc here in Australia. Just my thoughts Ian...good luck with it mate. David L 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Hi Ian,Yes you do need to reinvigorate the website from time to time, I am not sure if a forum based website like this one would be big enough for you to earn a full time living from it but as you say you need to give it a try... I would like to say to you, why not a user pays membership subscription fee to help with your costs, $5.00 a year or to get you a kick start ask the members for a $50 one off fee and $5.00 per year after that, some won't like it and you may loose them but if as you say you have 10,000 registered members even if 50% give you the one off $50 that's $250,000, that should help you to upgrade and cover your costs for a while. Like I said, you will probably loose some members but I think your site is very well established and with a loyal following and I am sure if you explained to everyone what the money will do for them, as the end user, the fair minded people will fork it out and let's face it there is nowhere else to go for Rec Flying info etc here in Australia. Just my thoughts Ian...good luck with it mate. David L Yes, it is really a timely reminder that people should consider a First Class membership. It's a dollar per week and helps Ian and Corinne keep this site alive. I wish more people did it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGL Fox Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Ian, Why don't you do a poll on a paid membership issue to gauge the views of everyone, of course all the short armed long pocket people will be upset about forking out $50 initially and $5.00 per year but it will be interesting to see everyone's thoughts on this issue.. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 Thanks for the initiative however I promised many years ago that the site will always be free so I must live to that promise. Also I wouldn't feel right that if someone came to grief because of something that they could have found out about right here on Recreational Fying and didn't because I charged to access that info. I am always looking at ways that provide a win win for everyone. If it works it is a win for the users, a win for the industry and a win for me but I really do very much appreciate the thought...thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGL Fox Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Well Ian I wish you good luck, not sure if the members here appreciate your loyalty towards a free website but good on you...all the best for Christmas and 2016 to you and your family Ian.. David 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 Had 2 more meetings and demos late yesterday and the hperfair type solution is around $3,000 a month fully hosted or $20,000 + to buy outright and $300 a month hosting. The cheaper less featured alternatives start from around $500 a month up...these are US dollars. The cost to an exhibitor would be around $250 to $600 a month depending on booth which is around the same as an advert in the magazine and they get 24/7/365 exposure around the world. Another meeting I had last night was with a development group who can do a non 3D web site version that may, I say may, be able to be done in a reasonable way that will be professionally appealling at a possible cost of up to $8,000 plus hosting. This could provide a more cost effective resource for exhibitors by bringing the cost for a booth down but early days...target would be 50 to 100 exhibitors in the aviation industry around the world. Imagine being able to talk to a company rep or ask a question to Garmin or Jabiru or Rotax etc. at any time 24hrs a day, 7 days a week...or talking to an RAAus office person or board member instantly from right here, if they wanted to have a booth (probably for free), what a service to everyone in the recreational aviation industry around the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Thanks for the initiative however I promised many years ago that the site will always be free so I must live to that promise. Also I wouldn't feel right that if someone came to grief because of something that they could have found out about right here on Recreational Fying and didn't because I charged to access that info. I am always looking at ways that provide a win win for everyone. If it works it is a win for the users, a win for the industry and a win for me but I really do very much appreciate the thought...thanks I really appreciate your generosity to keep this free. This makes it accessible to anyone interested in aviation. NEVERTHELESS, if any member receives enjoyment or enlightenment from this site, it would be nice if they became a first class member at just $50 per annum. Let's start a First Class membership drive. I strongly endorse your kindness to supply membership gratis. However could you please consider adding a First Class Membership button? ...perhaps something like this would help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I agree that a paid subscription to a site like this would be an ideal solution to alleviating the associated costs for the developer. However, just in my meagre experience with forum sites in general, it's been demonstrated quite a number of times that it just doesn't work. Some of the most populated forum sites have software and general infrastucture, features and facilities that have barely changed since those sites were first established, and that doesn't appear to affect their popularity significantly. Certainly this site provides a pleasant user's navigational experience but the actual written content is still entirely dependent on the contributors, not the software. The two main considerations are - The site infrastructure has very little influence on the quality of the information on the site or on the number of people that frequent it and/or post on it. Having a lot of up-to-the-moment features and facilities on the site may suit some of those who visit but as I understand it those who most often return to a site generally only use one or two of those features. I might be a reasonable example of that, I know there are a lot of things on this site but I hardly ever look at anything other than the 'New Posts' page. There is some great stuff amongst John Brandon's tutorials and I refer to them sometimes but there are several other site features here that I've never looked at. I'm sure this Expo thing will be a fantastic feature too, and no doubt I'll look at it to see what it's about but only time will tell whether I'd look at it again after that first time. If it's to showcase aviation products and aircraft available on the market I'd be more likely to visit the products' own sites I think. That's just me of course, other will doubtless vary. The second consideration, when expecting all site visitors or users to pay a subscription, is that all those using the site 'ain't equal'. I do pay a small voluntary subscription to three sites and the amount I offer is based on the balance of how much I feel I get from the site and how much I feel I contribute to it in the value of what I post there. Consider - if no-one posted on a site and everyone just went there to read what others wrote - well, if no-one posted there'd be nothing to read so the site would be worthless, wouldn't it? People only go to a site to read what contributors offer, and some of them offer their own (written) contributions, many don't post anything at all, or very rarely (I'm talking generally, not about this or any other site in particular). One of the sites to which I contribute a little cash continues to provide me with valuable engineering and aeronautical design information that I would be hard-pressed to gather elsewhere. I contribute a little knowledge there too, but the balance is in my favour, so I make up what I feel I owe with a small cash contribution. I really enjoy interacting with people on this site, and particularly it being an Aussie site, so I gain a lot from that. I also feel that I contribute a lot by sharing the engineering and aeronautical knowledge that I have gained by personal experience and by research over the last forty years or so, so I hope that I pay my way here, without being forced into making a compulsory cash contribution as well. Then the question would be - how would you determine those who gain more than they give, compared with those that give at least as much as they gain? Could you look at the 'likes' perhaps? That wouldn't work either - even if you compare the likes:posts ratio it still tells very little. There are contributors who have very high likes tallies but have never contributed anything much of real value to the site because they only post jokes, and mainly off-topic at that. Then there are pseudo trolls who have a high likes rating because they have a cult following of similar non-conformists. There are contributors with a clever sarcastic wit who don't even fly, and some who simply post stuff gathered from the net. The issue of cost mitigation or even of using a site like this to make a positive income is indeed a very vexed one, and certainly not easy to do successfully. Further than that, it's well known that whilst not impossible, it's very hard to make a living from anything to do with aviation. This site has certainly done well in bringing more people into the fold, Ian is to be congratulated for that, he said he'd take it international about a year or 18 months ago and we certainly have a good percentage of overseas contributors now. Other sites make their primary income from straight-out advertising so that's probably the way to go and if sufficient numbers of exhibitors on this expo feature can be persuaded to part with US$250 to US$600/month to cover the $3300 rent and hosting plus a profit, then I guess that would be a goer too, but if not it could be a heavy burden. I'm imagining the everyday site user would have to go to a specific part of the site to view these expo booths, the question then is - would they do that? At least with on-page adverts they're staring us in the face as we read the 'New Posts', so they must have some subliminal influence. So I guess the question would be - would the expo booths be able to have a similar presence on the New Posts page, to encourage site visitors to look at them? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGL Fox Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 The second consideration, when expecting all site visitors or users to pay a subscription, is that all those using the site 'ain't equal'. I do pay a small voluntary subscription to three sites and the amount I offer is based on the balance of how much I feel I get from the site and how much I feel I contribute to it in the value of what I post there. When you are a first class member I believe you pay $50 for the privilege, so I would say looking around the site that are many that believe it is value for money, so looking forward, a very very small $5.00 per year subscription is really a non event imo, as I have said, I am sure there will be people here that would not even be prepared to spend a miserly $5.00 a year to help Ian maintain the site which is truly sad. I really don't see any problem with $5.00 per year, if you come on here even for a chat with someone would that be worth $5.00?...how much does a mobile phone call cost... David 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 Very good points HIC, and the integration of the expo and the overall site design are things that are very much at the forefront of my mind currently. Like the navigation menu I need to conceptualise it all in my mind as pictures first and then put that down on paper first before I code it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 Thanks DGL, however the $5 a year administration would be a nightmare compared to what it is worth plus the main thing is I am not getting any younger and have no super tied away so I need to create an income that provides some form of financial security for years to come and there is a good 20 years left in me to keep providing this resource. Perhaps I go and buy a lawn mowing round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGL Fox Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Yes that would ok Ian as long as you don't have to push a mower around on one of your 40 deg days in Melbourne..do they do an air conditioned mower... David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greybeard Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 It's not the mousetrap that attracts the mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 Yes but without a mouse trap you could never trap the mouse. Plus all you are doing then is feeding a mouse to the point the mouse is full and no amount of cheese you put there will keep the mouse eating...in marketing terms it's called "utilty" Besides there are millions of resource focus sites out there that don't have forums. I believe that with the new site it will be an all encapsulating site that has a forum component rather than a forum site...that's the aim anyway but how it is all presented is the challenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Ian Before you take the next step in this I suggest you contact possible company's to see if they would be interested in being an expo customer. You need to gauge the interest of the clients before moving forward. Just my 2cents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 Exactly however i need to ascerian what the possible solutions atr, the preferred solution and the the features so i can go to them with the features to ascertain their interest. This was in the plan and the next step after what i am doing now...thanks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 The site homepage has been updated with a block at the top of the page announcing the upcoming Expo feature. A separate page has also been created to expand further the benefits of the Expo which can be accessed by the link in the box on the home page. I would very much like to hear more from those that may benefit from the Expo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 To keep you updated on this... The choice of options has now been narrowed down to 2 different vendors, 1 with a full 3D Virtual Expo solution and the other a non 3D expo that is bespoked developed to suit the requirements that were presented to them. These have been decided after going through our requirements with the possible vendors, analysis of product demonstrations and cost benefit analysis. Now that it has been narrowed down to 2 options, these are now being circulated to potential expo stand exhibitors around the world. This process will take several weeks to gather feedback and interest to which option best suits potential expo exhibitors. If you are an aircraft or aviation product manufacturer or distributor, please socialise the 24/7 world wide virtual expo concept with your head company and let me know so I can forward the information to them. Hopefully within a month's time I should be able to communicate a favourable status update to all if this is going ahead and what the end result will look like. Attached are the requirements that I am working to Project Requirements - Recreational Flying Expo.pdf Project Requirements - Recreational Flying Expo.pdf Project Requirements - Recreational Flying Expo.pdf 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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