Aircraft without radios

[Robbo]

CAAP 166-1 (3)

 

Section 7

 

 

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Your eyes are a better tool than a radio, ...

Really? You can reliably spot a trike 10-20 miles away? I don't think so!

 

 

[frank marriott]

Couple of important parts in CAR166C - Overuse is also bad.

 

The pilot must make a broadcast that includes the following information whenever it is reasonably necessary to do so to avoid a collision, or the risk of a collision, with another aircraft:

 

(a) the name of the aerodrome;

 

(b) the aircraft’s type and call sign;

 

© the position of the aircraft and the pilot’s intentions.

 

 

[Ayecapt]

Airmanship ,airmanship, and airmanship. No amount of parachutes, ipads radios or crystal ball replaces airmanship. The guy got the time wrong he has learnt we all have learnt from it .

 

The organisers on the web page refer pilots to the web page flying programme in that programme the times are in local time but not labeled as such. Utc utc utc ,airmanship airmanship airmanship.

 

 

[jakej]

20 miles is not a NEAR miss.

 

 

[facthunter]

The car analogy has no relevance as cars drive on roads and can stop anytime and are at a significantly higher density than planes. A transponder is only useful to ground radar and aircraft equipped with TCAS. There are numerous informed studies on the limitations of see and be seen, and are not hard to find. I'm a great believer in keeping your eyes peeled and looking out of the cockpit, but it's not near enough . Increasingly,..... good radio and procedures will become recognised as an essential part of our "normal" operations. Sure some use it too much. Your use of radio should be related to the situation you are in. As a pilot those are the sort of judgements you have to make. It's part of what is called "airmanship" Nev

 

 

[jakej]

Agree Nev but, although it wasn't a good analogy, my point is I believe there is not enough emphasis on keeping a good look out. Too much assumption that what is said on the radio is heard or understood or that the words are getting out - there are some really poor radio/ microphones about.

 

Maybe the standard of instruction could be improved too but that's another topic.

 

And ..... No more from me on this

 

 

[kasper]

Given that I fly in an open cockpit, rather than the expense and unreliability of modern electronics I may decide to use other methods of signalling my intentions in the circuit. I have found a Very pistol, semaphore flags and smoke grenades on EBay.

don't let a flag slip - they make a heck of a mess of your prop ... but if they do make sure its a red flare you fire off as you head for the earth:roflmao:

 

 

[facthunter]

I wasn't trying to have a real go at your post Jake. Just a summary, but I don't know where the problem lies with people NOT keeping a good lookout. All sections of aviation fail to some extent, and it's been a long time problem. Nev

 

 

[jakej]

Nev - no probs

 

 

[Yenn]

I know why people don't keep a good lookout. The visibiliy from a lot of planes is very poor. When I get in a Cessna I feel practicly claustrophobic and there is very little ability to see above or behind. I ask others when they first see me around our strip and it is amazing how close I get before they see me. The good visibility of my plane far and away makes up for relying on radio.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I know why people don't keep a good lookout. The visibiliy from a lot of planes is very poor. When I get in a Cessna I feel practicly claustrophobic and there is very little ability to see above or behind. I ask others when they first see me around our strip and it is amazing how close I get before they see me. The good visibility of my plane far and away makes up for relying on radio.

Yes but as you've just said, they can's necessarily see you.

And you can have difficulty seeing an aircraft below you, particularly when it's flying well below circuit height, coming from an unexpected direction, and with a history of not doing formal circuit pattern.

 

I don't think this subject is an either or; I was taught to keep my head out of the cockpit as much as possible, scan continuously for other aircraft, but also use the radio strictly in accordance with procedures (which eliminates at least one poster's complaint about people "who talk too much".

 

 

[Guernsey]

Given that I fly in an open cockpit, rather than the expense and unreliability of modern electronics I may decide to use other methods of signalling my intentions in the circuit. I have found a Very pistol, semaphore flags and smoke grenades on EBay.

Their use should be mandatory in open cockpit aircraft.....I knew I would be able to sneak in a post somewhere.

 

Alan.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

20 miles is not a NEAR miss.

Another straw man argument. Who said anything about a near miss???

 

 

[daza]

The trike that you're worried about that's 20 Nm away, is about 20 minutes away.

 

Daza

 

 

[Ungrounded]

Given that I fly in an open cockpit, rather than the expense and unreliability of modern electronics I may decide to use other methods of signalling my intentions in the circuit. I have found a Very pistol, semaphore flags and smoke grenades on EBay.

Might be best to stick with established standards rather than re-inventing the wheel. Which may cause undue confusion.

 

 

Not sure how these would help in a circuit though. Maybe there are others?

 

Steve (being silly).

 

 

 

[cscotthendry]

The trike that you're worried about that's 20 Nm away, is about 20 minutes away.Daza

Yep, but if he's 10nm on one side of the field and I'm 10nm on the other side (or some other combination of those numbers) I really want to know he's there.

 

 

[ev17ifly2]

Th

 

The trike that you're worried about that's 20 Nm away, is about 20 minutes away.Daza

That's only if you are flying a Tanarg Bionix 13 or an even faster P&M Quick R - you will have had a birthday by the time the other trikes make the circuit. ,

 

 

[daza]

Hey!

 

I resemble that remark!

 

Daza

 

 

[kasper]

Th

That's only if you are flying a Tanarg Bionix 13 or an even faster P&M Quick R - you will have had a birthday by the time the other trikes make the circuit. ,

or a Raven ...

 

 

[spacesailor]

JakeJ, Yes lets go the American way.

 

No transponder, No radio, No licence, And No insurance, for Ultra light home built.

 

Lead acid battery's: Sulphuric acid, Explosive gas, and they can & do explode themselves, also bludi heavy.

 

Ballistic chutes: How many owners are Licenced parachutist.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[jakej]

Don't understand your problem but I'm guessing it's part of the reason that the recreational flying industry has serious problems, caused by some with 'attitudes' that are detrimental to RA Aus.

 

The good guys like Nev & Djacro etc., etc must be severlely shaking their heads too at times.

 

Me - I've just tried to give helpful considered input based on a lot of flying experience.

 

Due to some 'experiences' I've had & seen especially with what some factory certified aircraft owners are doing, I had decided to let my L2 & RA Aus licence & membership lapse - some of the mischevious crap (by a minority I might add) I read here makes me realise I just don't want to be involved, now I've realised my decision may have been justified, bye.

 

No more input from me on this forum, sorry Ian.

 

 

[Aldo]

Ok here are three (3) examples from the last two days to show why I think radios are imperative.

 

1. Yesterday afternoon flying from Toowoomba to Tara (I know Toowoomba is mandatory radio but I could have departed from one of the three strips that I know of that are not) Qlink 18D inbound to Wellcamp tracking north west for the 12 RNAV Z which placed us on perpendicular tracks within 2 minutes of each other, with some commonsense radio work we were able to maintain separation standards as applicable for the company policies relating to the Qlink operation without either of us diverting from our planned tracks. Without the radio I wouldn't have known he was there and vice versa.
    
    
   
2. This morning departing from our private strip taxi call (as I always do, not required) and back on the radio was a helicopter 3 miles to the west tracking east directly overhead, I had no idea he was there (no need for him to make a call not required) could have resulted in me climbing straight up into his path.
    
    
   
3. This morning into Toowoomba 3 King Airs inbound number 1 estimating 1 minute before me, number 2, 2 minutes after me and number 3, 3 minutes after that, we slotted in with each other without delay to any of us also 2 King Airs departing around the same time, once again sensible radio and separation stragities used, coms with both Brisbane centre and the aircraft involved, couldn't have done it by see and avoid.
    
    
   

 

 

Other things to consider you can legally fly up to 5000 feet without radio what happens on your descent when you are flying through other levels with the sun in front of you without radio you have very little chance of seeing another aircraft on a reciprocal track.

 

Aldo

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Aldo, I always thought that the taxi call was one of the mandated calls CASA wanted everyone to make, why do you say it was not required for you (even though you did make the call)? Is it because you have a private strip? What frequency do you use for your taxi calls?

 

 

[Robbo]

This morning departing from our private strip taxi call (as I always do, not required) and back on the radio was a helicopter 3 miles to the west tracking east directly overhead, I had no idea he was there (no need for him to make a call not required) could have resulted in me climbing straight up into his path.Aldo

You say no taxi call? May I again refer you to CAAP 166.