Oscar Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Skidmore would expect his team, remembering he wasnt even das then, would not do something so dopey as not analyse data properlyJust shows he trusts those in the team. Perhaps he shouldnt The history of certain people in high positions within CASA actively conspiring against their chief ( CEO or DAS, depending on the time) is well documented. It reached a dramatic climax in Bruce Byron's time, with several of the top offenders being removed from their position in a 'get out NOW, collect your personal things and leave the building' manner - approved by the Minister at the time. However, there is no reason to believe that culture has been eradicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 The history of certain people in high positions within CASA actively conspiring against their chief ( CEO or DAS, depending on the time) is well documented. It reached a dramatic climax in Bruce Byron's time, with several of the top offenders being removed from their position in a 'get out NOW, collect your personal things and leave the building' manner - approved by the Minister at the time. However, there is no reason to believe that culture has been eradicated. Agree Oscar, it's ALWAYS more reliable to consult the grapevine rather than the management in any big organization...up until the day management strikes. I'm not ruling out that's what happened in this case, just saying that from my research, including a couple of land mines which I can't talk about, that's unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 This cracks me up. Oh no, we are not the manufacturer, heck we can't even create a rational reason for most of our actions. However we've only just started on this in the past year or two, still getting around to looking into the data. No idea of causes, besides that isn't our department. Could take decades to figure that stuff out. But Mister-Doctor will now explain why we had to shut them down because of shut downs.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 For those who may have a cynical view of my comments regarding senior management conspiring against the CEO, I suggest you read the article: http://proaviation.com.au/2013/04/06/to-hell-with-the-rules/ , in particular, the section headed 'Palace Revolution'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coljones Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 It's all a bit like global warming - CASA is saying that they know nothing but their mind is still made up. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 It's all a bit like global warming - CASA is saying that they know nothing but their mind is still made up. No, they didn't say they know nothing, but they did point out in the short time available where some responsibilities lay in terms who who is supposed to be doing what. Technically yes, they did say their mind is made up on the criteria they based their action on. The tricky question for everyone is what will be the criteria on which the action can be ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Bonus question from the audience: what is this bundedburg of which you speak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnewbery Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Oscar from post #29 see post #2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Oscar from post #29 see post #2 Absolutely! Sorry I didn't take your post in fully, but yes, it's an extremely important article. And I can vouch for the accuracy of Phelan's description under 'Palace Revolution', I was getting almost real-time reports from extremely reliable sources somewhat in the 'thick of the action' ( as they say in military dispatches) as the whole thing was unfolding. Phelan's description in no way overstates things, in fact, he was being fairly restrained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Just lookong at timing, wasnt the action done AFTER Mcormick left but before Skidmore started? In which case it may have Alecks name on it Id suggest he is too cunning to let that happen If it was signed off by old DAS, it can all be blamed on him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Farqharson's s occupation of the post of acting DAS ended hours after the Instrument was promulgated. Farqharson did NOT get the position of DAS... Connect the dots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 OK, slightly off-topic, but possibly instructive as to how we MIGHT get some progress. Many years, ago, (1979-80), I was heavily involved in agitating politically for decent rights for motorcyclists. We were faced with impending legislation for 'headlights-on' for all motorcycles - which may seem like a good safety idea, but the implications of that were that the onus of responsibility was being placed on the motorcyclist to 'be seen', rather than motorists to 'watch out' - and statistics prove around 80% of all collisions between motorcycles and motor vehicles are the fault of the motorist to observe and take due care. Peter Nixon ('the self-proclaimed 'bastard from the Bush') was the Minister for Transport in those days. Three of us - all senior Public Servants - organised a meeting with him to outline our concerns. We were duly ushered into his office ( Old Parliament House was a rabbit warren in those days, with MP staff camped at desks in the corridor!). Nixon gave us a 5-minute lecture on his view of Road Safety ( 'door handles injure lots of drivers), and a passing observation on Aviation safety ( 'we don't need Air Traffic Controllers, Pilots have to watch out and take responsibility') . Then, he asked us what was our problem. I think he was expecting some knuckle-dragging dope-fiends; as we laid on his table statistical analysis and legal argument, he stopped us short, and said: 'I have not been properly briefed for this, but I will get you to the Head of the Office of Road Safety so you can put all this stuff to him.' Then he punched a button on his phone to aforesaid Head of ORS, and told him: 'I want you to meet with these people tomorrow.... NO, tomorrow.' and thanked us for our input. Nest day, we were ushered into the Head of the ORS's office. He waved us into seats while he conducted a phone conversation regarding the arrangements for his son's Hockey team trip to Tasmania... then sat back in an avancular gesture and asked us 'what is your problem?' - or similar words. Having listened, somewhat disinterestedly, to our submission, then he leaned forward and patronisingly said: 'Well, we will just have to agree to disagree, won't we?' Cue an explosion of Kruschev proportions from one of us ( a senior analyst in the ATO at the time..) To cut a long story short: we screwed him.. We organised a rally of 10,000 motorcyclists (official Police estimate) on Canberra in 1980. We forced the Minister - Milton Morris - to attend the rally on OPH, and he was really, truly intimidated by the sight of 10,000 affected people staring at him. As a result, motorcyclists gained a position on the Motor Vehicle Performance and Safety Standards Committee ( MVPSS) so we had, for the first time, a direct say in the formulation of regulations affecting us. What relevance does this have to CASA action? - Well, the Head of the ORS at that time was the ex- Director of DCA Vic/Tas region - known for its complete ignoring of DCA policy, and a law unto itself. The description 'arrogant bastard' hardly encompasses the man. He had carried that over to the ORS. The moral of the story is this: united, we can bloody well frighten the Minister into kicking downwards, if we can show him ( or her, but at the moment it is him) that there is a truly angry constituency baying for his blood. It takes a combination of logic, reasoned argument and very, very evident mass willpower. RAA needs to coordinate this, but we also need to get behind the barricades when the time comes to resist the 'authority'. 3 2 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Quick amendment to the above story: Nixon had been replaced as Federal Minister for Transport by Ralph ( 'Rhyming Slang") Hunt; I can't remember how we ended up with Milton Morris on the steps of OPH ( I think he was deputing for the NSW Minister for Transport at the time, as he'd been NSW Minister for Transport for quite a few years). However, there was plenty of TV coverage and Hunt certainly got the 'message'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 ...The description 'arrogant bastard' hardly encompasses the man... Unfortunately for our country Oscar, that encompasses a major part of Australia's problem: our public service is infested with too many chameleons whose main area of expertise is outfoxing their elected employers. The system rewards those who, instead of working to improve our country, scheme to protect and enhance their own power. I have seen bureaucrats retire with national honours when their fat salary should have been confiscated to pay for the damage they did during their tenure. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby1 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Do the CASA restrictions only apply to Jabiru or to CAMIT as well. CAMIT are saying Their engine incorporates the latest designs to prevent the previous failures with the Jabiru engine Both manufacturers make the 2200 and 3300 engines I ask this as there seems to a lot of confusion in the market and in the info put out by both manufacturers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 We have our wins though OK; we managed to shut down a thought bubble in Canberra at one stage for the Government to take over the building of all buses and coaches in Australia for "greater efficiency" Those of us in manufacturing all received a summons to attend a meeting in Canberra" where three smirking Czars introduced themselves and said they'd conducted extensive studies, and the Government would in future be building all buses and coaches in Australia (we would all have to liquidate the manufacturing companies) to obtain greater efficiency by substantially reducing the cost of a bus, and they asked the originators of this brilliant scheme to outline to us the details. An official from Bureau of Transport Economics gave us the run down on his study, which you and I had probably paid a million dollars for, which showed the savings in getting critical mass which would reduce the cost of a route bus to $80,000.00 A former marine engineer, with no transport experience, then stepped up to explain his design - rear flat 8 aluminium engine (yet to be designed), diagonal drive, "hull" made of aluminium, monococque. There were about fifty of us in the room which broke into peals of laughter at this hull description. We were then asked for our opinions. I'd prepared material, and blistered the walls for about twenty minutes, starting with: "If the current route bus price we compete at is around $30,000.00, how would $80,000.00 represent a saving? Jack Violet, the owner of Custom Coaches, galvanised the feelings of everyone else in the room by ramping up 400% on my level with the emotion of someone who stood to lose his lifetime business. No expletive was spared with plenty of "parasites", "morons" to rousing cheers from the room, which brought public service spectators. Finally one of the Czars said "Perhaps this was not such a good idea after all" and it died a natural death. Milton Morris also seemed to hang around the national transport industry a lot during his time, possibly because the Federal Minister/s weren't as engaged as they should have been. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROGER.G Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Do the CASA restrictions only apply to Jabiru or to CAMIT as well.CAMIT are saying Their engine incorporates the latest designs to prevent the previous failures with the Jabiru engine Both manufacturers make the 2200 and 3300 engines I ask this as there seems to a lot of confusion in the market and in the info put out by both manufacturers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROGER.G Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I have just installed a CAMIT into my SP6, and did so on the basis of an assurance by Camit that their engines are NOT regarded as a Jabiru and are therefore not subject to the restrictions. As an aside, the engine is performing well, but the installation in an early model SP was not as simple as a quick unbolt/rebolt replacement. There are enough differences in the shape of the cylinder and head finning to render the Jabiru cooling ducts useless for a start, the CAMIT is 10kg heavier than the Jab, which totally upsets the C/G and 6kg of lead now resides in the tail of my bird to compensate, the Camit alternator is wired totally differently, etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperplace Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 We have our wins though OK; we managed to shut down a thought bubble in Canberra at one stage for the Government to take over the building of all buses and coaches in Australia for "greater efficiency" Those of us in manufacturing all received a summons to attend a meeting in Canberra" where three smirking Czars introduced themselves and said they'd conducted extensive studies, and the Government would in future be building all buses and coaches in Australia (we would all have to liquidate the manufacturing companies) to obtain greater efficiency by substantially reducing the cost of a bus, and they asked the originators of this brilliant scheme to outline to us the details.An official from Bureau of Transport Economics gave us the run down on his study, which you and I had probably paid a million dollars for, which showed the savings in getting critical mass which would reduce the cost of a route bus to $80,000.00 A former marine engineer, with no transport experience, then stepped up to explain his design - rear flat 8 aluminium engine (yet to be designed), diagonal drive, "hull" made of aluminium, monococque. There were about fifty of us in the room which broke into peals of laughter at this hull description. We were then asked for our opinions. I'd prepared material, and blistered the walls for about twenty minutes, starting with: "If the current route bus price we compete at is around $30,000.00, how would $80,000.00 represent a saving? Jack Violet, the owner of Custom Coaches, galvanised the feelings of everyone else in the room by ramping up 400% on my level with the emotion of someone who stood to lose his lifetime business. No expletive was spared with plenty of "parasites", "morons" to rousing cheers from the room, which brought public service spectators. Finally one of the Czars said "Perhaps this was not such a good idea after all" and it died a natural death. Milton Morris also seemed to hang around the national transport industry a lot during his time, possibly because the Federal Minister/s weren't as engaged as they should have been. are you serious? this really happened? how long ago was this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSCBD Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Lets get this right - Casa has total control of Aviation NOT the minster. He is but a figure head and only take advice from the head of Casa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Who funds CASA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 are you serious? this really happened? how long ago was this? Yes it did, can't remember the date, but it was in the Whitlam Government time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 I have just installed a CAMIT into my SP6, and did so on the basis of an assurance by Camit that their engines are NOT regarded as a Jabiru and are therefore not subject to the restrictions.As an aside, the engine is performing well, but the installation in an early model SP was not as simple as a quick unbolt/rebolt replacement. There are enough differences in the shape of the cylinder and head finning to render the Jabiru cooling ducts useless for a start, the CAMIT is 10kg heavier than the Jab, which totally upsets the C/G and 6kg of lead now resides in the tail of my bird to compensate, the Camit alternator is wired totally differently, etc etc. 10 kg heavier Roger? Jabiru list their 3300 @ 83.5kg and Camit list their 3300 @ 82.4kg. Where is the extra weight in the Camit. Not doubting your figures, just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 6kg of lead now resides in the tail of my bird to compensate Can one of our retired aero engineer types tell me if this is a good idea, or does it impact on demonstrated stall recovery of an aircraft type? I have seen it done to balance heavier turbo installation and have wondered if it was OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 http://www.aviationadvertiser.com.au/detail.php?id=4293 it sure is taking it's toll on values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now