Oscar Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Oscar, I have always done the spirit level on the door thing.. what do you recommend instead? Is the fuselage join-line the horizontal reference we should be using? Bruce - what we have used is a spirit level between the wing pick-up attachments - which is only available if you happen to have the wings off!. We found these to be very good, side-to-side. I think, next best, is to put blocks on the front and rear ends of the door lower frames so you can run steel beams across the fuselage above the centre 'spine' moulding, and then put a level across the centre of those transverse beams - thus averaging the ripples in the mouldings. CAVEAT: the Jabiru moulds lasted, on average, around 100 mouldings at best. Then a new set of moulds had to be produced, and I have reason to believe that each time that was done, the accuracy improved. So if your aircraft has a production number of say 200 or more, your airframe is very likely more accurate that ours... which is production number #50. Jabiru didn't have the best of record-keeping of variants in the early days; our ST1 wings are no longer reproducible, the moulds with that combination of aileron and flap dimensions no longer exists. Our own aircraft, a factory-build and the first VH-reg Jab., is as rough as guts, to be honest. My co-owner and I have spent a great deal of time 'improving' things - in consultation at every step with an aero-engineer with an intimate knowledge of Jabirus (who flew our own aircraft in the early days when it was used as a factory mule for the 2200o development.). The horizontal stabiliser happens to be 10mm offset from the centreline.. Seriously, one of the great attributes of Jabirus is that they are EXTREMELY aerodynamically forgiving. They don't turn around and bite you... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROGER.G Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Oscar, I have always done the spirit level on the door thing.. what do you recommend instead? Is the fuselage join-line the horizontal reference we should be using? The reason I adopted the fuse join line is because I noticed there was a difference between LH & RH door frame in my aircraft, and as Oscar said "which one do I use?". Adopting the fuse join line is as good as you can get, as well as wing tip to wing tip. if you are fortunate enough to have a perfectly level hangar floor you have got it made, otherwise the best way is to beg/borrow/steal a laser level (if you do not already have one). CLARIFICATION. I used fuse join line for the longitudinal axis, wingtip to wingtip laterally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 See my reply to Oscar. The c/g of the engine is some way forward of the nose leg, so an extra 9 (or 10) kg engine weight will translate to approx 18kg extra on the nose wheel, which is what happened to my aircraft. Fair enough, id better weigh mine again It does add value to light LiFe battery I am happy with extra weight Camit has added, it in the right places, with performance upgrade it doesnt feel heavier. with lower MTOW it could catch up quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROGER.G Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Fair enough, id better weigh mine againIt does add value to light LiFe battery I am happy with extra weight Camit has added, it in the right places, with performance upgrade it doesnt feel heavier. with lower MTOW it could catch up quickly Thanks for the suggestion re- battery, mine is only 6 months old so don't want to junk it just yet. What are the approx dimensions of the LiFe? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Theres a thread on them here somewhere, can get very similar dimensions Key points are make sure its Lithium IRON, LiFe, NOT Lithium ION Or Lipo, they arent safe Best LiFe have internal charge controller, im keen on Earth X models but they are ex USA and over $500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I have had a LiFePO4 starting battery for over a year now now and it weighs about 1kg. Taking about 5kg off the nose wheel is great.The battery is only used for starting the engine and is disconnected from the alternator well before takeoff. Interesting! A starter only battery. Do you only charge it from a 240v "off aircraft" charger? What battery, battery capacity do you have inflight? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 A bit more information on weights, and a correction: the CAMit flywheel is, as JJ said, lighter than the Jabiru one. ( Mine is actually a spider-centre Jab. one, not a proper CAMit one - my bad memory there!) And the newer alternator is apparently same installed weight as the Jab. charging set-up, with all the advantages of the CAMit one - a no-brainer, I reckon! A set of four cht and clamp-type egt sensors plus cables and bracketry, weighs 540 grammes: 135 grammes/cylinder.. Standard Jab is one CHT: I don't have a weight for that, but I'd estimate around 50 grammes ( since the egts have a s/s hose clamp).. So, for a six-cylinder, I reckon add 760 grammes on the engine. The old standard Jabiru oil cooler adapter is 211 grammes with the O/P sender and the hose barbs attached. The CAMit TOCA, is 324 grammes. (assuming my kitchen scales are fairly accurate!) The CAMit cylinder anti-corrosion oil injection system adds around 450 grammes approx., maybe a bit less. So, yes a fully-optioned CAMit engine is going to be a some kgs heavier than a basic early-model equivalent Jab. engine, but I just can't see anything like 10 kgs - maybe half of that or so, for really quite a bit more 'kit' - all of it highly desireable, I reckon, for a good and faithful life. HOWEVER : my estimate is based on adding what I can think of. It would be far more reliable if someone could remove their Jab. engine with all ancillaries, weigh it, and the weigh all the direct replacement parts for a CAE engine swap, so it's a true apples for apples comparison. CAMit has measurement gear of an accuracy that most of us can only dream about; I wouldn't doubt their advertised weights for a moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROGER.G Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 A bit more information on weights, and a correction: the CAMit flywheel is, as JJ said, lighter than the Jabiru one. ( Mine is actually a spider-centre Jab. one, not a proper CAMit one - my bad memory there!) And the newer alternator is apparently same installed weight as the Jab. charging set-up, with all the advantages of the CAMit one - a no-brainer, I reckon!A set of four cht and clamp-type egt sensors plus cables and bracketry, weighs 540 grammes: 135 grammes/cylinder.. Standard Jab is one CHT: I don't have a weight for that, but I'd estimate around 50 grammes ( since the egts have a s/s hose clamp).. So, for a six-cylinder, I reckon add 760 grammes on the engine. The old standard Jabiru oil cooler adapter is 211 grammes with the O/P sender and the hose barbs attached. The CAMit TOCA, is 324 grammes. (assuming my kitchen scales are fairly accurate!) The CAMit cylinder anti-corrosion oil injection system adds around 450 grammes approx., maybe a bit less. So, yes a fully-optioned CAMit engine is going to be a some kgs heavier than a basic early-model equivalent Jab. engine, but I just can't see anything like 10 kgs - maybe half of that or so, for really quite a bit more 'kit' - all of it highly desireable, I reckon, for a good and faithful life. HOWEVER : my estimate is based on adding what I can think of. It would be far more reliable if someone could remove their Jab. engine with all ancillaries, weigh it, and the weigh all the direct replacement parts for a CAE engine swap, so it's a true apples for apples comparison. CAMit has measurement gear of an accuracy that most of us can only dream about; I wouldn't doubt their advertised weights for a moment. So really, with all the variables you mention, and the different locations of these components relative to the c/g datum, the only safe option, if undergoing an engine change, weigh both before and after the transplant. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 If you are changing by calculation, you need weight and Cof G of the complete component for the calculation of the moment and the same for previous unit it replaced. If it's a fairly large amount it may require the relocation of something heavy like a battery, or a smaller weight further away near the tail. Adding weights near the extremities, can change aircraft handling characteristics like spinning. Because intentional spins are prohibited doesn't stop the problem being an issue.Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Received today. Hello Jabiru Fleet, Exciting news..... Engine Production of the Generation 4 2200 and 3300 engines at the Jabiru Factory at Bundaberg Airport is well underway. Our brand new CNC lathe is bolted down and working and a brand new CNC horizontal machining centre is on order and will be delivered at the end of March. Photos below of cylinder heads and barrels being machined on our vertical machining centre and Gen 4 3300 engine components ready for assembly along with pictures of the first shiny new Generation 4 2200 and 3300 engines. We currently have a waiting list and are accepting orders and deposits for engines. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tuncks Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 That new Jabiru engine looks good Camel. Gosh I hope it is a winner. Downunder, the battery I am using is a Hobbyking 8,400 mAh LiFePO4. It is connected just like the old Odyssey battery and gets charged from the Jabiru system just the same EXCEPT that I have a digital volt-meter on the panel and when the voltage has returned to 14.4 volts after starting, I then turn off the master switch. This isolates the battery from the system. In lieu of a battery, there are some big capacitors between the positive and earth busses in the instrument area. The alternator thinks that these capacitors are the battery, and the radio etc works from this source. So there is nothing for the main battery to do after starting the engine except to get back the energy taken out by the start before being switched out. If the battery were to be left connected, it would be well and truly overcharged by the Jabiru alternator, where the regulator cuts out at about 15 volts. A better system than mine would be to use a really good regulator, one which did not overcharge the battery. And there would need to be some individual cell protection for the battery as these LiFePO4 need balancing. ( I need to do this balancing with a model-plane charger about twice a year) The next generation of planes will come with this stuff built in I bet. My setup has worked ok for years now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Camel What are the differences in this engine?..same pistons? same rings?..same valves and seats? throughbolts? How different is this engine from the previous version...we know it finally has Nikasil bores though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Looks like Gen 4 3300 is pretty much a Gen 3 with new heads and cylinders Any word on where cases, cranks and other parts coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 What sort of pricing for this new version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I am still on the lookout for 120 to 130hp engine...was considering the Camit it was definatly on my list. Thats why I am very interested on if there are any differences from the older Jab 3300 to this new one 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 It should be able to run closer fits piston/cylinder so less blowby and quieter mechanically and less distortion with better heat transfer. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 we know it finally has Nikasil bores though I was told by someone who would know that it is a Nikasil "like" plating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coljones Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I was told by someone who would know that it is a Nikasil "like" plating. Nikasil is a trade name - Nikasil "like" would indicate an alternate provider. A bit like Ugg boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Nikasil is a trade name - Nikasil "like" would indicate an alternate provider. A bit like Ugg boots. Yep. But that is still not Nikasil.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coljones Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Yep. But that is still not Nikasil.......... Are you presuming that "Nikasil" TM is the be all and end all. It might only be one among equals - a bit like the original hoover. Or a Rum and Coke. Or Cocaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Jabiru have the opportunity for a price reset in addition to having to find new manufacturers probably more expensive If the have orders and wait lists there must be pricing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 CamelWhat are the differences in this engine?..same pistons? same rings?..same valves and seats? throughbolts? How different is this engine from the previous version...we know it finally has Nikasil bores though As a Jabiru owner I was sent a news letter, that's how I got the info, I'm not privileged or anything special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Nikasil stops the bores from rusting I am told Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Yeah among other benefits but it's very hard to get right in small batch production If it's Nickasil "like" it may or may not have the same attributes They are cast alloy cylinders anyway aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I think Rotax has Nikasil bore liners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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