M61A1 Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Glen Shaw at Dalby Air Maintenance does a lot of Drifter work. The factory at Dalby hasn't done anything for years. The strut braced Drifter is not quite a strong as a wire braced one, but you will get around 5 kts more cruise out of it. Any of the smaller tube work (spars and bracing) can be bought at airport metals, you will just need to cut it to length or at worst have it properly bent. The fuselage booms are a bit harder to come by. The plastic bits(and much more) can be bought at Lockwoods in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjam Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 Thanks M61A1. Good info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleropilot Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 G'day again Ben, you are in for a real treat with your first flight in a Drifter - first thing you will notice is the 'exposed' position of the front seat - it's a little confronting for some, a bit like a flying motorcycle actually. You get used to it fairly quickly, looking straight down to the left or right can be a little disconcerting at first. I have a background in skydiving/low level military flying/paragliding/gliding so for me it wasn't a problem. The instructor will of course brief you on loose items in the cockpit, basically everything needs to be screwed down or tethered (forget about maps!). Everyone has a different reaction to Drifter take-off techniques when training - my problem (initially) was not being either fast enough or assertive enough on the rudder pedals to keep the lil' devil straight. Watch the rudder pedals during your first take-off and you are likely to see a fair degree of movement! The Drifter is the ultimate stick and rudder aircraft, the light weight combined with large flying surfaces (huge ailerons) make the Drifter quite sensitive, albeit an absolute delight to fly low and slow. I mentioned to an Emirates A380 pilot recently that I fly a Drifter and his response was "hey I've heard so much about those little buggers, reckon I should have a go at that" (he's an Aussie). I imagine all Drifter instructors teach the glide approach from the end of the downwind leg, you will find that you don't need fancy stuff like flaps for the approach - it's a simple matter of getting your turn onto base at exactly the right place to allow your glide to put you at your chosen touchdown point - too high and you can sideslip to wash off height (Drifters are brilliant sideslippers), too low and you will need to trickle on a little power. Being a 'high drag, low inertia' aircraft you will probably think the final approach is a bit steep - that's how the lil' puppies fly. Final point - you are spot on about the Drifter fraternity, you will be even more impressed the more you move in those circles. Biased I most certainly am, and I have done but one flight in a trike, and that was a TIF - old habits are hard to break and I found the reverse controls a real drama (push the bar to the right to turn left) and the delay in response quite uncomfortable (as in, push the bar, wait two seconds, around we go). Not sure if all trikes behave that way but I wasn't all that happy about the way the aircraft handled. My instructor said to me (after 45 minutes flying) that if he passed out I could probably get the trike on the ground, but it wouldn't be pretty!!! M8 I will be waiting to hear about your TIF in the Drifter - 'twill be something you will never forget, almost as good as your first solo...take lots of pix! Cheers, BP PS I will post some pix of the Woolooman Scary Place...for the FSX Drifter, look at the website: Ant's Airplanes (that's moi in the red helmet in 0455) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjam Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 Geez Dave. You are getting me all excited. I will let you know how it goes. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleropilot Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 no need for me to say "have fun m8" - it's a given... cheers BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnewbery Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Maybe we should mention this thread and leave it at that? http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/promoting-the-drifter-what-have-you-done.130329/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleropilot Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 hey Mr Oldberry, I just put a post on that thread.... BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff13 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Good to see you doing your tif i a drifter first, you will be able to cancel the trike after that as the drifter Tif will have you sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Got much experience of trikes have you Geoff ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I made the deliberate decision some years back to not fly both weight shift and 3 axis. I think it was the correct one. You don't need to slow your reaction time. It would be like applying the wrong rudder with an assymetric engine failure.Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff13 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 No none Crezzi Just a throw away line trying to indicate that one flight in a Drifter could easily get you hooked. Everyone is so bloody serious on this forum it is a wonder that anyone bothers to post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I thought they were "curious", rather than serious. I would push the drifter as a good thing to have some time with. It does fly quite well. Much the same characteristics as a Tiger moth with exposure added. Do it. Life is short. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleropilot Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Got much experience of trikes have you Geoff ? OK Crezzi m8, enlighten us with your reasons why Ben should take the trike option over the Drifter... anything as popular as trikes can't be all bad, no argument there, but btw, do you have any info on trikes in the EU converting from 2 strokes to BMW motorcycle engines to avoid pollution regs? I have seen some info on the conversion kits and I have to say they give me a woody (if you know what I mean) - kinda think they would be the bees knees on a Drifter cheers BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 I'd have to be convinced it wouldn't shake it to bits, and I think it's a bit heavy..Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 OK Crezzi m8, enlighten us with your reasons why Ben should take the trike option over the Drifter... I didn't express any such opinion ! I fly (or have flown) GA, gyro's, gliders, ultralights, recreational & trikes and they all have different advantages & drawbacks. The OP expressed an interest in trying both trikes & open cockpit ultralights - I think that is exactly what he should do so he can make an informed decision which works for him. I have made my own choices but wouldn't presume to influence anyone else's :-) btw, do you have any info on trikes in the EU converting from 2 strokes to BMW motorcycle engines to avoid pollution regs?I have seen some info on the conversion kits and I have to say they give me a woody (if you know what I mean) - kinda think they would be the bees knees on a Drifter There were a few BMW powered trikes around but I haven't done much flying in Europe for over a decade I'm afraid. Most trikes are factory built which makes it problematic in some countries to make major modifications like this (a not dissimilar situation to here) Kaspar might be more clued up Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Yes and no on bmw conversions on trikes. Nearly all trikesin the UK built in the last 10 years are R912 powered and you are very hard up trying to find even a r582 powered one in the UK in a school let alone a R503. Most 2 stroke airframes are heading towards retirement and in fact you can regularly pick up a fair R503 or R447 powered aircraft for under $3k Australian and most of these just get converted to SSDR and flown single seat with all restrictions on mods removed. In mainland Europe the majority of my experience (now two years out of date) is in France ... and sorry to say that as a people the French LOVE agreeing to laws then just blatantly ignoring them - most French machines are still running two strokes quite happily and ignoring anything to do with pollution. And again nearly all new airframes are just powering up the $$$ R912 in various forms and selling them. Single seater market is still looking towards two strokes but have also gone the way of large PPC four strokes eg Flyright in UK and Aircreation in France The only BMW powered trike I've flown was a Huntwing in the UK and I am happy to say it was just a single circuit at Popham after which I gladly handed it back to the owner with a thanks ... and rapid walk away no looking back ... it was a dog of an engine for a trike - very heavy, way too slow an acceleration of both engine and airframe, very low power (more R503 than R912 levels) and overall more vibration than a 2stroke. Flown in another bmw conversion on a 3axis for a short flight from Stoke down to Dover and return - again happy to get out of the aircraft and not return - it was rough and not pleasant as an engine to fly behind So ... Not really a fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 The only BMW powered trike I've flown was a Huntwing in the UK and I am happy to say it was just a single circuit at Popham after which I gladly handed it back to the owner with a thanks ... and rapid walk away no looking back ... it was a dog of an engine for a trike - very heavy, way too slow an acceleration of both engine and airframe, very low power (more R503 than R912 levels) and overall more vibration than a 2stroke. The Huntwing is also the only BMW powered trike I have flown & my sentiments were pretty much the same as yours I'm afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleropilot Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Ah gee, the written word - it can be so confusing, and interpreting can be fraught - obviously. As for myself, I am most happy to influence ones opinion, particularly when it comes to Drifters. Parochial I am, said Yoda. Ben will (as you say) make his informed decision based on what the two vastly similar aircraft are like to fly - even though that opinion will be based on limited knowledge and experience. I suspect he will (after his GA experience and the Drifter TIF) consider the trike to be a little - shall we say - unwieldy? On another subject, if you ever want to find out whether your dog or your wife loves you more, try this little test. Lock them both in the shed for an hour, then see which one is happy to see you when you open the door. Luckily for me, I already know the answer to this question, so I can go on with my life a little longer... Hey John, I'm interested to know what you think of gyros - they look real nice to me, apparently time has been very kind to them and they are not anywhere as 'scary' as they used to be. BP PS Bertrand Russell was a smart man - another quote I found interesting was from Mao Tse-tung - he said (apparently): All religion is poison and of course I unreservedly apologise to anyone offended by that remark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 I suspect he will (after his GA experience and the Drifter TIF) consider the trike to be a little - shall we say - unwieldy? I'm getting a bit concerned about your trike TIF LOL ! There are many adjectives you could legitimately have used but I'm genuinely surprised at "unwieldy" - that's not one I have heard used in nearly 25 years flying trikes. Perhaps it seemed "unwieldy" because you were making reversed control inputs ? I know a lot of 3-axis pilots bang on about the difficulty and risks of converting but its not logically so different from a car driver learning to ride a motorbike. Most bikers also drive cars and I doubt they have too many problems with making the wrong inputs. The key is good quality training and remembering that, when you start, you are still a low hour pilot on the new type. Hey John, I'm interested to know what you think of gyros - they look real nice to me, apparently time has been very kind to them and they are not anywhere as 'scary' as they used to be. I think they are sort of where trikes were a few decades ago - progressing from mostly home-built types to more factory-built designs meeting recognised standards such as BCAR-T. As a result there is likely to be an increase in both the numbers of instructors and the quality of instruction which can only be a good thing. Unfortunately it also means an increased cost so it won't please everybody. In terms of capabilities I think of them sitting somewhere between trikes and fixed-wing recreational. Since I already fly both those genre frequently I have neither the time nor budget to invest in them myself. I can relate to those who do and wouldn't have any concerns about doing so myself in the future. Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleropilot Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 the trike TIF was exactly what I thought it would be in that it was a beautiful day over Bright (Victoria) and the open cockpit was gr8 the reversed controls and response delay was, imho, more than just unwieldy, it was weird, horrible, scary, and probably the most uncomfortable hour I have ever spent in an aircraft - just sayin'..... perhaps if I hadn't flown all those 3 axis hours and had more time to spend on the concept, things would turn out better - simply stated, not my cup of tea and for those that fly them (or them and 3 axis) I say goodonya, you're a better man than I am gungajin cheers BP 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjam Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 Well. If the brown stain in my undies and the grin on my face is anything to go by, I can report that the Drifter TIF was exceptional fun. Peter (the instructor at YGYM) was great. Stalls, turns, sideslipping, and spiral turn recovery, and then circuits. He did not even need to 'rescue' the aeroplane - even during my returns to Earth (I can't call them landings yet). Even thinking about it now makes my stomach drop and my quoit grip the chair a bit harder. Yes, I have signed up to complete the RAAus certificate on the Drifter. And Yes it is still my intention to have a go on a trike, because they, too, look like too much fun to leave alone. As it happens I do ride a motorbike and drive a car, as some one mentioned here. If the trike leaves me feeling as vulnerable as the motor bike, I will only have a limited exposure to it. But if it was like the Drifter yesterday, I might just have to do both! Come on next Saturday!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff13 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I used to think of the drifter as my airborne motorcycle. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I used to think of the drifter as my airborne motorcycle. I still describe mine as an "aerial dirt bike ". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleropilot Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Hey Ben, congratulations m8 - had a funny idea you might like Driftereing....nice to see Peter showed you all the Drifter fun things - I'll be doing my BFR with him at Gympie soon, maybe even as soon as later this week. Good idea to still go ahead with the trike TIF, if you haven't tried it then you don't know the end result - just because old f#rts like moi can't fly 'em don't mean they're not a good thing. On a strictly personal note, I didn't take to the reversed control inputs and the delay in the aircraft responding to same. You may just think they're the bees knees, a lot of people do. Hope you took some pix m8, looking forward to seeing those. cheers BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Drifter vs weighshift Apples and pears - love both but they are not the same thing. Loved flying and instructing in the Drifter AND love flying my weightshift. Comparing the two is not fair other than they are open cockpit, about the same speed (usually the weightshift is fast!!!) and can get into and out of short strips but other than that they are very different beasts ... but equally enjoyable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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