The XPB Stage 1 underway.

[onetrack]

AussieB1rd - The Flying Flea was an aeronautical disaster, and they had a dreadful crash record. I'm sure Bex is looking to improve on the FF, and looking to avoid avoid the "flying deathtrap" moniker.

 

Tinworm-wings: An SSDR Flying Flea?

 

 

[AussieB1rd]

1 month down, 5 to go. I am on a time frame.

I hope you have a good supplier of 6061 over there if not Bunnings have a good supply of 5504 1" round tube and rectangular extrusions, I was looking for some the other day but I didn't think it was strong enough for a selfie stick though.

 

 

[AussieB1rd]

The Flying Flea was an aeronautical disaster

The Poms sorted the problem out after some wind tunnel testing and got Mignet to change his design a bit, and after that they were fine.

 

 

[onetrack]

As one observer noted -"The flying flea had the potential to bring the airplane to the everyday man on the street - usually by falling on him" ...

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... I am trying to end up with one of the cheapest kit planes in the world ...

Bex this approach might get the cost of the basic airframe down, but that's only a small part of the build.

Constructing a plane is like building a house: after the walls are up, the roof on, you're about a quarter of the way.

 

 

[AussieB1rd]

On a brighter note Bex, your fuse pics are starting to look pretty good, so much so I am going to say, there is an aircraft in the states that was a very excellent plane and I for one would give a left teste for, the company folded and was taken over and kits put out using ally angle, they took a beautiful aircraft and molded it into what I call a pile of rubbish, but that's just my opinion, So, what you have on the table looks way better and of a more solid and safer looking and add a few uprights and it can be a high wing, seen a lot of fuses of high wings start out looking like yours, you have my interest.

 

Cheers

 

AussieB1rd

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Ladders have been done to death already, you can't buy an extension ladder in France unless you have a builders permit.

The ladder company refuses to supply them any longer when they found out what they were doing with them.

 

AussieB1rd - The Flying Flea was an aeronautical disaster,

Brilliant plane with one major flaw that was easily cured but sadly wears the "Killer" tag to this day. The front wing/elevator had too much travel and would aerodynamically over-center (or similar), the cure was as simple as a travel stop.

 

I hope you have a good supplier of 6061 over there .

Fantastic supplier, they have their own lab too but I will also be verifying material spec with independent Western company to alleviate fears. Coincidently, the Australian made "6061" sample I took to them failed to be 6061, it was 6060 (a bit weaker in layman's terms).

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Coincidently, the Australian made "6061" sample I took to them failed to be 6061, it was 6060 (a bit weaker in layman's terms).

I'd be mighty surprised if a sample of Australian smelted aluminium alloy turned out to be anything other than it was claimed to be. Australia and Canada have the highest QA standards and consequently the best reputations in the world for the consistency of their alloy production. It's a jealously protected reputation too, because it has resulted in these countries now being the preferred alloy supplier worldwide in the shipbuilding and transport industry. For major marine projects same-batch billet material is used for the framing and the plating and is also sent to Italy (usually) for the production of the welding wire, to ensure a perfect match of alloy throughout, and hence prevent electrolytic corrosion.

 

The sample you bought in Australia might not have been Australian made alloy, even though it could possibly have been extruded here. A lot of billet material is imported, though any extruder would know if a different alloy had been substituted due to its different extruding/plastic temperature and properties. Another possibility is that the sample you bought was neither smelted nor extruded here, the majority of extrusions and rolled sheet material sold here are imported these days. Capral is one of the few remaining 'High Street' stores that stock material of Australian origin. If my information is still current Ullrich also extrudes some Australian billet down Sydney/Newcastle way but I think all other suppliers import their entire stock and mostly from ... you guessed it, China. Much of the Chinese smelted alloy started life as Australian Bauxite mined in Nhulunbuy on Gove peninsular and Weipa on Cape York peninsular.

 

6060 (usually found in T5 condition) isn't a 'bit' weaker than 6061T6 it's closer to half the tensile strength at 160MPa compared with 260MPa for 6061, one wouldn't want to design for one and end up using the other by mistake, in any industry. So a company 'passing off' 6060 as 6061 wouldn't stay in business very long.

 

 

[hihosland]

This is boxy

 

 

 

[Downunder]

Too many people wanting a Porsche at a Commodore price.........

 

I'll take a "modernised" Wittman Tailwind design, and function over form.

 

A nice high VNE and the ability to carry an engine that will take it there.

 

There are also plans available for an "all metal wing" ........ if you're interested.......

 

PS... A half empty hangar sits waiting for a kit, very close to me.....

 

 

 

 

[David Isaac]

That is a very good looking Box ... Id love one of those at the right price.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I'd be mighty surprised if a sample of Australian smelted aluminium alloy

Yaw right, I should have said Australian branded.

 

 

[kasper]

Ladders have been done to death already, you can't buy an extension ladder in France unless you have a builders permit.

And when you add the other aerodynamic bits of non-structural 'aircraft' it looks like this:

 

[AussieB1rd]

And when you add the other aerodynamic bits of non-structural 'aircraft' it looks like this:

Or they can look like this, this one used coat lining, the shiny polyester you see on the back of vests in it's wings and tail feathers.

 

 

 

[IBob]

Or they can look like this, this one used coat lining, the shiny polyester you see on the back of vests in it's wings and tail feathers.

That's actually strangely classy...in a steampunk sort of way!

 

 

[bexrbetter]

And when you add the other aerodynamic bits of non-structural 'aircraft' it looks like this:[ATTACH=full]43390[/ATTACH]

I was going to build one of those but there was just too many steps involved.

 

 

[IBob]

I was going to build one of those but there was just too many steps involved.

I knowwwwwww..........the lengths some people will go to, eh....about 30ft by the looks of it???

 

 

[kasper]

But you have all missed the best bit of the ladder pouchel I posted ... its electric.

 

 

 

[bexrbetter]

But you have all missed the best bit of the ladder pouchel I posted ... its electric.

It climbs well.

 

 

[Kiwi303]

1 month down, 5 to go. I am on a time frame.

Is that better or worse than a Ladder Frame?

 

I thought you were making a Plane, not a TARDIS.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Well looks like we have rung out all the ladder puns, better get back to my things.

 

Taking notice of what you guys say and thinking about things, the last 2 days I had a look again at the "Boxy" accusations, after having a good old cry, you heartless bastards.

 

Now while putting a curve in a tube presents no problem at all, I've even got my own electric triple die roller sitting around and various dies, doing it time after time is near impossible. It's ok for a one off build where you can make some adjustments by either rolling a little more or straightening it out on the floor - as simple as pushing both ends down or trapping and end in something and levering it.

 

As we want the same result over and over and no one wants a twisted plane, rolling was always out as a choice, hence the flat bottoms you currently see. Simply flexing a tube up has it's drawbacks, it of course wants to pull the top longeron down so you need bracing, gussets and diagonals to prevent it doing so - more weight and complexity.

 

.. and then it struck me. A guy on a bicycle when I was crossing the road busy thinking about this.

 

How about if I flexed the lower tube up and oppose it's force with another going the other way ... bingo!, self contained curve that can be replicated every time. Simple as securing each end and putting a separator in the middle. So I spent 10 minutes to create this ..

 

 

And then I pulled some tubes off one of the existing sides, laid down the "lens" (that's the actual legitimate name for this shape) on top and it looked like this ..

 

 

Hmm, 4 natural triangles, gentle curves for the "Boxy" whiners, might be onto something here.

 

So yesterday spent a bit of time in 2D CAD, drew up some new front, mid and rear support plates to accept the lens, and off to the laser guy this morning who cut them from some leftovers so I could do a trial run and now I have this ...

 

 

 

 

So going to get a little FEA done over the weekend and see how it stands up (with suitable bracing etc.).

 

 

 

[fly_tornado]

so are you building this with solidworks?

 

 

[bexrbetter]

so are you building this with solidworks?

No, mostly drop saw, drills and rivet gun - occasional hammer.

 

I use Sketchup for the basics because it's so darn fast, Librecad for the CNC files and leave the complicated stuff, FEA, CFD, etc, to those who are properly versed in it.

 

 

[pylon500]

Shame about all those side plates you had lasered !!

 

And as mentioned before, if fully skinning the sides, you only need light bits of angle to stiffen the skin.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

I wrote earlier that it looked " boxy" That was not serious critique. I think that the excellent, strong and easy to assemble box that you produced could be shaped as you wished, fleshed out with a fibreglass ( G forbid) turtledeck, canopy P51B style. and somebody elses "off the shelf " cowling. Don't get sidetracked by our comments, your idea was coming along very well.