One for Kasper ( to give an opinion on)

[SGIAN DUBH]

This is primarily for Kasper, though anyones opinion is welcome

 

The Illustrious Leader of the BMAA ( The Jeremy Corbyn Stand in ) recently sent me the following by email:

 

Dear Peter

 

This email was sent to you at your usual email address on 14 June. I have not received an acknowledgement to date, so I am resending it via your other known email addresses.

 

Please confirm that you have received and read it.

 

 

 

 

 

David Bremner

 

 

 

 

 

07801 xxxxxx

 

01584 xxxxxx

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my mobile

 

 

 

 

Dear Peter

 

I am writing to inform you that at the BMAA Council meeting on Monday 13 June, a decision was taken in accordance with Article 29.2.2 not to approve any application for renewal of your membership.

 

 

 

--

 

David Bremner

 

07801 xxxxxxx

 

01584 xxxxxxx

 

Unless I am mistaken Article 29.2.2 isn't APPLICABLE as I am not applying for renewal of my BMAA Membership, I am simply renewing an already approved membership? I believe ( as does a legal rep ) that Article 31 could be used by the BMAA Council if they follow the correct procedure, sending me an email isn't the correct procedure, nor is citing the wrong Article in the email.

 

 

Content of Articles 29.2.2 through to Articles 31.6 added for perusal :

 

 

David.

 

 

 

I have received your email today ( your previous one might have gone to SPAM )

 

 

 

To be honest I am disappointed that as you are the Chairman of the BMAA you choose to use a media that can get filtered to a Spam Folder ( Unprofessional if I say so myself ) Had you shown a level of professionalism a Formal Letter would have been sent to me.

 

 

 

Anyway having read the content of your Email I had the BMAA Articles of Association 2012 ( Current version @ 04/07/2016 ) checked by an independant source to get an opinion on the Wording of Article 29.2.2 & to get a informed view of how it relates to my membership.

 

 

 

The Independant opinion is that under Article 29.2.2 I am not deemed to be applying to become a BMAA Member, I would be renewing a Pre-existing Membership which doesn't fall into the Applying to be a Member Category.

 

 

 

I have had the entire Part 3 checked for wording & Article 29.2.2 isn't applicable as my Membership was approved on inital application and memberships are renewed without each renewal going to the Council for approval.

 

 

 

If you wish to revoke my Membership I would request that you carefully read Article 31 paying particular attention to Article 31.1 whereby :

 

It shall be the duty of the Board, if at any time it shall be of the opinion that the interests of the Company so require, by notice in hard copy form sent by prepaid post to a member's address, to request that member to withdraw from membership of the Company within a time specified in such notice. No such notice shall be sent except on a vote of the majority of the directors present and voting, which majority shall include one half of the total number of the Board for the time being.

 

Only after you have complied to your own Guidelines will I enter into any further correspondence on this subject, then once you have complied to Article 31.1 will Article 31.2 come into play, whereby :

 

31.2 If, on the expiry of the time specified in such notice, the member concerned has not withdrawn from membership by submitting notice in hard copy form of his resignation, or if at any time after receipt of the notice requesting him to withdraw from membership the member shall so request in hard copy form, the matter shall be submitted to a properly convened and constituted meeting of the Board or such subcommittee to which it has delegated its powers. The Board or sub-committee and the member whose expulsion is under consideration shall be given at least 14 days notice of the meeting, and such notice shall specify the matter to be discussed. The member concerned shall at the meeting be entitled to present a statement in his defence either verbally or in hard copy form, and he shall not be required to withdraw from membership unless a majority of the Board members or subcommittee members present and voting shall, after receiving the statement in his defence, vote for his expulsion, or unless the member fails to attend the meeting without sufficient reason being given. If such a vote is carried, or if the member shall fail to attend the meeting without sufficient reason being given, he shall thereupon cease to be a member and in the case of a Voting Member his name shall be erased from the register of members. The Board may exclude the member from the Company's premises until the meeting considering his expulsion has been held. For the avoidance of doubt, the member shall be entitled to attend the Company's premises to attend that meeting (if it is held at them) for the purpose of making his representations.

 

 

 

I trust that you will furnish me with details of your request by Hard Copy as set out in the BMAA Articles of Association along with a copy of the Minutes of the Council Meeting ( you can omit the identities of who proposed the Action & who seconded it as I already have that detail along with who put the idea in front of the Council Members ) SU,DB,DM in case you think I am bluffing.

 

 

 

I look forward to receiving your Formal letter & then I will act accordingly in my response, please pay particular attention to Articles contained in Article 31 as that will be the SECTION applicable to this matter. ( Article 29 IS IRRELEVANT )

 

 

 

PART 3

 

MEMBERS

 

BECOMING AND CEASING TO BE A MEMBER

 

29. Applications for membership 29.1 The subscribers to the Memorandum of Association of the Company as at the date of incorporation, and such other persons as are admitted to membership by the Board in accordance with these Articles (and any applicable Rules), shall be the Voting Members of the Company. 29.2 No person shall become a member of the Company unless: 29.2.1 that person has completed an application for membership in such form as set out in the Rules, and 29.2.2 the Board has approved the application. 29.3 Every corporation and unincorporated association which is admitted as a Voting Member may exercise such powers as are prescribed by Part 9 of the 2006 Act. 29.4 The Board may from time to time fix the levels of entrance fees and annual subscriptions to be paid by the different categories of members.

 

30. Conditions of membership 30.1 All members shall be subject to the Rules. 30.2 The members shall pay any entrance fees and annual subscriptions set by the Board under Article 29.4. Any member whose subscriptions and/or entrance fee is more than three months in arrears shall be deemed to have resigned his membership of the Company unless the Board decides otherwise. Page 25 of 42 Iss 0. April 2012

 

31. Termination of membership 31.1 It shall be the duty of the Board, if at any time it shall be of the opinion that the interests of the Company so require, by notice in hard copy form sent by prepaid post to a member's address, to request that member to withdraw from membership of the Company within a time specified in such notice. No such notice shall be sent except on a vote of the majority of the directors present and voting, which majority shall include one half of the total number of the Board for the time being. 31.2 If, on the expiry of the time specified in such notice, the member concerned has not withdrawn from membership by submitting notice in hard copy form of his resignation, or if at any time after receipt of the notice requesting him to withdraw from membership the member shall so request in hard copy form, the matter shall be submitted to a properly convened and constituted meeting of the Board or such subcommittee to which it has delegated its powers. The Board or sub-committee and the member whose expulsion is under consideration shall be given at least 14 days notice of the meeting, and such notice shall specify the matter to be discussed. The member concerned shall at the meeting be entitled to present a statement in his defence either verbally or in hard copy form, and he shall not be required to withdraw from membership unless a majority of the Board members or subcommittee members present and voting shall, after receiving the statement in his defence, vote for his expulsion, or unless the member fails to attend the meeting without sufficient reason being given. If such a vote is carried, or if the member shall fail to attend the meeting without sufficient reason being given, he shall thereupon cease to be a member and in the case of a Voting Member his name shall be erased from the register of members. The Board may exclude the member from the Company's premises until the meeting considering his expulsion has been held. For the avoidance of doubt, the member shall be entitled to attend the Company's premises to attend that meeting (if it is held at them) for the purpose of making his representations. 31.3 A member may withdraw from membership of the Company by giving notice in accordance with the Rules. Page 26 of 42 Iss 0. April 2012 31.4 A membership terminates automatically when a person dies or ceases to exist or on the failure of the member to comply or to continue to comply with any condition of membership set out in these Articles or the Rules or Regulations. 31.5 Membership is not transferable. 31.6 Any person ceasing to be a member forfeits all rights in relation to and claims upon the Company, its property and its funds and has no right to the return of any part of his subscription. The Board may refund an appropriate part of a resigning member's subscription if it considers it appropriate taking account of all the circumstances.

 

Kasper: Interested in your 'take' on this

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Well Peter you have obviously pissed off someone in the high castle :)

 

Naughty boy

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

Well Peter you have obviously pissed off someone in the high castle :)Naughty boy

I don't think it takes much to piss off Captain Mannering & his cronies ;-)

 

 

[kasper]

I don't think it takes much to piss off Captain Mannering & his cronies ;-)

Calling the BMAA council chairman Cpt Mannering and the council his cronies will do it ;-)

And despite you and I having not agreed in the past I think on this one you have it correct.

 

IF

 

- your membership Class was FULL and

 

- your annual membership fees were paid within 3 months of the end of the annual membership period

 

you are not classed under the articles as applying to become a member in year 2 or subsequent as your existing membership has not been triggered as a cessation per 30.2

 

However, if you have somehow triggered 31.1 it may be different ... but you say that no written hard copy notice under 31.2 of a 31.1 decision exists so basically looks like you have gotten under/remain under the skin of the council and the wrong notice is heading towards you.

 

Cheers

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

Calling the BMAA council chairman Cpt Mannering and the council his cronies will do it ;-)And despite you and I having not agreed in the past I think on this one you have it correct.

 

IF

 

- your membership Class was FULL and

 

- your annual membership fees were paid within 3 months of the end of the annual membership period

 

you are not classed under the articles as applying to become a member in year 2 or subsequent as your existing membership has not been triggered as a cessation per 30.2

 

However, if you have somehow triggered 31.1 it may be different ... but you say that no written hard copy notice under 31.2 of a 31.1 decision exists so basically looks like you have gotten under/remain under the skin of the council and the wrong notice is heading towards you.

 

Cheers

When you get a reply like :

 

Dear Peter

 

It says something for your attitude to the BMAA that you treat its emails as spam...

 

David Bremner

 

Can only be answered as follows :

 

 

David,

 

 

 

I would have thought that even you had the capacity to understand that Email servers sometimes put emails into SPAM by error, it has nothing to do with my attitude towards the BMAA. I do not control how Google segregates emails.

 

 

 

Anyway whilst discussing attitudes, I perceive your attitude towards this matter as particularly 'slap dash'

 

 

 

You hold a position which the BMAA Membership voted you into, I was part of that voting process & whilst I now regret having ever voted for you I did so believing you were the best of the gaggle in the frame.

 

 

 

Now as the BMAA Chairman I reasonably expected you to at least know the contents of the ARTICLES OF ASSOCIATION, as at this time I am still a bona-fide BMAA Member I respectfully ask you to apply the correct Article to your desire to revoke my membership.

 

 

 

I look forward to your compliance to Article 31 & then I will deal with your correspondence, I have extended you the courtesy of answering your somewhat childish remark ( even though I said " I will answer after receiving your correspondence by post )

 

 

 

Please do your role as is expected of someone voted into a position & bear in mind you are there to serve the members & not vice versa.

 

 

 

Let's not have personal differences come into play here, try being professional in how you conduct yourself as a representative of the BMAA as this is now becoming part of the folder that I will collate for the Article 31.2 response.

 

 

 

To reaffirm what is expected of you I require a full copy of the minutes pertaining to the discussion by Council on this matter & a hard copy of your reasons for you wishing to revoke my membership as I will be taking advice on the content before deciding what recourse to take.

 

 

 

Peter J Kelsey,

 

 

 

That should get his ' hackles up ' # whogivesastuff #

 

 

[kasper]

Peter I do not disagree that once the hackles are up on either or both sides its generally on for one and all.

 

That was why when on council in the UK when faced with someone who would not take 'please go away and stop stalking me' I chose to break the cycle by stepping back and handing the situation with the 'individual' over to the police ... it did stop the cycle rather quickly but that was quite different from an email on membership where the outcome is that you retain/remain a member.

 

Perhaps you might consider being the bigger man and just letting things pass when they are not critical to your enjoyment of the flying pass time?

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

Peter I do not disagree that once the hackles are up on either or both sides its generally on for one and all. That was why when on council in the UK when faced with someone who would not take 'please go away and stop stalking me' I chose to break the cycle by stepping back and handing the situation with the 'individual' over to the police ... it did stop the cycle rather quickly but that was quite different from an email on membership where the outcome is that you retain/remain a member.

 

Perhaps you might consider being the bigger man and just letting things pass when they are not critical to your enjoyment of the flying pass time?

In the grand scale of things I doubt Captain Mannering should even be on my ' radar '

 

Ironically, of recent I have been so well behaved that it has become BORING, it's funny how your outlook on life changes with events that happen in your life.

 

Whilst I don't bear Grudges it would seem apparent that the BMAA Chairman does ;-)

 

I do know Dave Bremner proposed the revocation & 'Flatpak' Maharajan seconded it, I don't as yet know the reasons for the revocation other than Steve 'Has a Spear to chuck at you ' put the idea to the Council.

 

This all ' ESCALATED' because there is an imminent Election PROCESS starting.

 

As it doesn't drastically affect my enjoyment in flying, I will just keep him on the 'hook' until I get tired of reeling the fishing line in.

 

If I thought his actions were justified I would happily walk away but they aren't ( Had he tried this 4yrs ago I wouldn't have had any defence, but now I am in the Top Spot )

 

 

[kaz3g]

Procedural fairness doesn't seem to have much of a run, does it?

 

Kaz

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

The Irony of all this : I have the BMAA Chairman trying to get me ousted because I am deemed a bad person & then today 'unprovoked ' this gets written about me by a Fellow Microlighter called Bob Hood ::::::

 

Hello again all,

 

Further to my posts above about how my plane stopped working. I'd like to tell you all about an incident that took place on the Tuesday of Fly-UK. I was at East Fortune, and decided to try to get to Strathaven, in an attempt to catch up with the others who'd already done the northern circuit and were on their way back down south. So I set off from East Fortune, to route through the Edinburgh zone and avoid the high ground to the south of the city. With this in mind I called Edinburgh before leaving, and also called them again once in the air. They told me to route via Dalkeith and Hill End, then Kirknewton and Latch Farm before heading out of their zone to the west. So I called at Dalkeith, then at Hill End, where I encountered strong turbulence and rotor, but my plane tried to twist itself apart while I was over Kirknewton RAF base (The A frame turned right and the pod turned left at the same time!), so I decided to get away from that particular bit of airspace as quickly as possible. By this time my arms were getting very tired as it had taken me an hour to get this far, against the strong south westerly winds, as well as the high levels of turbulence and rotor.

 

I told Edinburgh I was going to land at Latch Farm, as I'd originally thought to do a low pass over it, or possibly land for a rest if I saw any cars there. As it turned out, with my arms getting very tired and me being somewhat nervous after my plane did its twisting manoeuvre over Kirknewton, I decided to land, so I let Edinburgh know my intentions and headed off towards it. There is a line of trees along the southern (windward) side of the runway, and although I tried to land long to avoid the worst of it, nevertheless I got rotored in somewhat untidily when I tried to land. The plane bounced on one rear wheel, then the other one, then suddenly seemed to move off to the left of its own accord (rotor I guess!) and I ended up in thick thistles to the left of the runway.

 

I managed to taxi out by using a lot of power, and then got my plane up to the concrete apron outside the hangar there, whereupon I parked the plane and tried to calm down a bit.

 

For those of you who don't know, it's where Peter Kelsey is based, and within minutes of me arriving, so did he. I hadn't made any arrangements to meet him, so it was pure coincidence that he was there, but I'm very glad he was. He'd come to East Fortune the previous evening and taken myself and Dave Karnovich over to North Berwick so that we could get something to eat. He'd then driven miles around the area looking for a garage so that Dave could get some petrol for his flight the following day. The search was unsuccessful and Peter had finally dropped us back at East Fortune just before midnight, which must have cost him at least a bob or two in petrol, not to mention the wasted time.

 

Anyway, when Peter had picked us up he'd mentioned that he was based at Latch Farm, and said that if I was heading west I should fly over it so that I could see where he kept his plane. So I decided I'd try to do a pass of the field on my journey to Strathaven. Hence my being there and choosing to land due to increasing fatigue.

 

Peter arrived, found me there, and then quickly helped me check the plane over, unload it, and hobble it between the hangar and his trailer that he's got his Dynamic parked in. With me still a bit shaky, he took me into Edinburgh to find somewhere to sit down with a cup of coffee, and at this point he, then I, received a phone call from someone else who's also based at Latch Farm. Apparently the other bloke is the person who is listed as being the airfield operator, so Edinburgh contacted him to find out if I'd landed OK. They'd expected me to let them know when I landed, but due to the difficult landing and subsequent unloading and tying down, I'd completely forgotten all about them. Needless to say the bloke who phoned me wasn't impressed by my lack of airmanship, and I had to apologise profusely for forgetting. However, I then contacted Edinburgh myself and told them that although I'd landed a bit hard in my plane, there was no damage to either the plane or myself.

 

The lady I spoke to said she'd pass on my message and that all was well.

 

With Peter's help I was quickly booked into a B+B, and after we went for some lunch he took me all the way to the B+B like a personal taxi service. The afternoon and evening soon went, and I slept the sleep of the very tired. The next morning Peter arrived and collected me, then took me back out to the airfield, where he helped me rerig the plane and reload it ready for the off. Due to the strong south westerly winds I'd decided to return to East Fortune, so I rang up Edinburgh and told them this. They asked me to report as soon as airborne and this I did. There then followed half an hour of relentless battering as I was quickly returned to the airfield I'd spent an hour getting to Latch Farm from the previous day.

 

After landing at East Fortune, Peter rang up to make sure I was safely down once more, and soon after that I received a phone call from the AAIB at Aldershot. The lady asked what damage my plane had sustained during the hard landing the previous day. I told there wasn't any damage as 'hard landing' just meant I'd bounced instead of the usual smooth joining with the earth that I normally managed. She said she'd tell the duty officer and see if he wanted to do any further investigation. A little while later she phoned again and told me that the duty officer had decided not to pursue it any further, and that I was now free to move the plane.

 

I was a bit non-plussed by this as I'd already flown it 30 miles back from Latch Farm to East Fortune by the time she'd called me the first time, but I suppose it just goes to show that we have to be very careful how we describe our landings in case they are misinterpreted by the people in the heavy plane world. In future I won't describe any landing as being a 'hard landing' unless I've broken the suspension because that's obviously what they thought I'd done to my flexwing.

 

Anyway, I'd like to express my thanks and extreme gratitude for all that Peter Kelsey did for me during my time in Scotland. Without his unstinting help I'd have been in a bit of a mess, to put it mildly, and I'd like you all to know that although he's often vilified on this forum and others, nevertheless, in the flesh he proved to be a very good friend in my time of need. My guess is that if anyone else had been in my predicament he'd have helped them just as much as he put himself out for me, and I can't thank him, or praise him highly enough for helping a fellow aviator through a distinctly uncomfortable time.

 

( copied from : BMAA Forum )

 

 

[JabiruJoe]

Off topic and in a brief response to the above post...fantastic, well done Peter, that help is what contributes greatly to the joys of flying when those"joys" come a little unstuck.

 

 

[johnny3star]

So what happened in the end then?

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

So what happened in the end then?

JohnnyUnleaded, I think you know what the outcome was of both the Fly UK 2016 in terms of Helping Bob Hood & the outcome of the BMAA Ousting ;-)

The deceit of certain BMAA Council Members was prevalent in me being refused renewal of my BMAA Membership, not exactly a traumatic event for me as IMHO the BMAA is FUBAR.

 

To put the BMAA into context so the Australian members understand what it is, it has shadier characters amongst them that are more dodgy than Operation Yewtree suspects, it was an Association that I once liked being a member of but now it is full of complete imbeciles with a few running certain facets of the OLE BOYS CLUB.

 

 

[johnny3star]

Hi Peter,

 

Yes, Bob Hood was extremely grateful for your assistance on Fly-UK last year after his mishap.

 

I was asking about your exclusion from the BMAA, and didn’t know what the current position was?

 

You’ve obviously ruffled some feathers in Deddington towers?

 

Cheers

 

JM

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

Hi Peter,Yes, Bob Hood was extremely grateful for your assistance on Fly-UK last year after his mishap.

I was asking about your exclusion from the BMAA, and didn’t know what the current position was?

 

You’ve obviously ruffled some feathers in Deddington towers?

 

Cheers

 

JM

John, The current situation is : I am not allowed to be a member of the BMAA because as you put it " I have ruffled some feathers " amongst the Chicken Run @ Deddington Towers...... The best bit of it all is: I didn't want to be a member of an Association who can & do run 'roughshot' through the membership, prime example is Spunking £8000.00 on the exhibition at the ExCel London which has picked up £200.00 of revenue for the BMAA..... With any sense of business acumen it is plain to see that throwing away £7800.00 of the members capital is a horrendously stupid decision..... In the same time they wasted £8000.00 Terry Viner got the BMAA 3 MORE MEMBERS so Terry is a better financial proposition than the rest of the Dicksplashers that sit around the Round Table.

I also gather BMAA Council meetings are now getting a less than 50% attendance by those Dicksplashes who were voted in ;-) It seems History is repeating itself.... I never ever expected to get elected as I am a realist, but I am surprised that Ricky Boy was ousted.....since his exit the BMAA has gone rapidly down the pan, Terry is a Good Man but he isn't that motivated to push & push anymore as he knows what Plebs he has to sit with at that table and his ideas get ROOM 101 every time, however the ideas the others put forward get discussed when really they should be briskly flushed down the Dunny.

 

The funniest bit is : I am doing more for Microlighting whilst being on the Outside of the BMAA, soon I think they will be pleading for me to become a member again if only to tell them that Popham isn't situated where Fishburn is ;-)

 

Yes, I am aware that Bob Hood was happy with the help he received after his mishap ( not so much a mishap as he only decided to bounce of the side of a 40m wide runway into the Long Grass ) The upshot of his 'Mishap' is : Bob has crossed over to the 'Dark Side' and now has a 3 axis microlight instead of a tumbledryer.

 

The strange bit is ( & I know it is a failing of mine ) if someone is a nice person I am a nice person back, if a person is a bit of an Arse I am a bigger Arse back, but it doesn't matter who the person is, I will always help someone out if they have an incident,mishap,accident even if I think they are an Arsehole.

 

Bob Hood is someone who I consider a very nice guy & it was just unfortunate that his mishap happened on a day where I had relatives staying over or he would have been invited to stay at Chez Kelsey that night instead of me finding him a B&B for the night.

 

 

[johnny3star]

Peter

 

Whether the BMAA really run roughshod over their members is certainly debatable.

 

However, I’m not aware of any other individual excluded from membership, it would be interesting to know if this situation is unprecedented?

 

Either way, in practical terms, not being a BMAA member doesn’t cause any real problems for folks wishing to fly microlights in the UK,

 

even PTF’s can still be obtained for aircraft registered on their fleet if you know how, and I’m sure you do.

 

Reading between the lines, I’m guessing this ‘exclusion’ has more to do with the annual BMAA council elections?

 

As you know, one particularly stubborn, serial candidate who, (despite invariably receiving the lowest number of votes every single year by some margin) kept re-standing, and was making the elections something of a pantomime.

 

I understand this individual is, for some reason, no longer standing in the BMAA council elections?

 

Either way, it's all a storm in a teacup and life's too short.

 

As a fellow flyer, I look forward to having a beer with you somewhere on Fly-UK later this year.

 

All the best

 

JM

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

PeterWhether the BMAA really run roughshod over their members is certainly debatable.

However, I’m not aware of any other individual excluded from membership, it would be interesting to know if this situation is unprecedented?

 

Either way, in practical terms, not being a BMAA member doesn’t cause any real problems for folks wishing to fly microlights in the UK,

 

even PTF’s can still be obtained for aircraft registered on their fleet if you know how, and I’m sure you do.

 

Reading between the lines, I’m guessing this ‘exclusion’ has more to do with the annual BMAA council elections?

 

As you know, one particularly stubborn, serial candidate who, (despite invariably receiving the lowest number of votes every single year by some margin) kept re-standing, and was making the elections something of a pantomime.

 

I understand this individual is, for some reason, no longer standing in the BMAA council elections?

 

Either way, it's all a storm in a teacup and life's too short.

 

As a fellow flyer, I look forward to having a beer with you somewhere on Fly-UK later this year.

 

All the best

 

JM

Johnny, You little Tinker ;-) I can categorically confirm that I am the Founder Member / Majority Shareholder of the Excluded BMAA Members Club ( At this time I am the CEO,MD,SECRETARY,ACCOUNTANT,JANITOR & CAR PARK ATTENDANT ) I am sure there will be other shareholders along soon.

I will ( Because I am a nice guy ) fill in the gaps so that you don't need to second guess what is between the lines ;-)

 

(1) Dave Bremner was worried that the one particularly stubborn, serial candidate was gaining popularity so he made a very slapdash attempt to get my membership revoked so that I couldn't stand in the 2016 BMAA Council Election, he made such a monumental cock up that he was 'Shamed' by his fellow council members so much so that they ' threw him under the bus ' The poor old barsteward was left with no other option but to rev up & f**k off out of the BMAA Chairman's position, they didn't even want him as a council member.

 

(2) Roberta Hughes then followed up the mish mash that Bremner had set in motion by discussing the situation with the council members who opined that I should get the disciplinary procedure that is in place within the Articles of Association where I get to speak in front of the 'Kangaroo Court' & then a fair decision could be made based on what both sides said.Roberta knew I could muck him up in a heartbeat so he declined that option and stuck to the idea that he could just do as he pleased..... My views on Roberta are : I have wiped less offensive muck off the bottom of my shoes when the dog owners haven't cleared up after their Dingos ;-)

 

(3) I am still amazed that the BMAA ALLOW Characters of dubious standing to be Directors of the BMAA.... The only Police Record I have is Roxanne on a 45 disc.

 

(4) I no longer have any desire to be associated to the BMAA & am actually far better off since Roberta played his Ace Card, certain Council members are getting that fed up with the increase in lethargy, a fact is they couldn't even have a Council meeting on the 10th April 2017 because the Council Members all had better things to do !!!!

 

The Funniest bit was On the 29th November 2016 I was going to Lisbon for some respite & low and behold so was Dave Bremner, we ignored each other throughout the flight and whilst going through departure & arrival lounges.... He must have felt awkward whereas I found it quite amusing because I saw the colour go out of his cheeks for fear I would start a conversation.

 

Anyway, this is an Australian / NZ Forum so I think we should leave the UK Debating to the UK Forums, I might make an appearance on one of the UK Forums in the near future, however I think there is more chance we will speak over a beer on F-UK 2017 before I return to the 'kindergarten flyers' forum.

 

 

[Admin]

Anyway, this is an Australian / NZ Forum so I think we should leave the UK Debating to the UK Forums, I might make an appearance on one of the UK Forums in the near future,

Recreational Flying (.com) may have started here in Australia however it is set up now with region specific forums for the whole world. There is a UK specific forum here as well as US etc. The Governing Bodies forum is for all countries and can include discussions on RAAus, BMAA, ELAAA, FAA, CASA, etc etc etc. Engine, aircraft etc maintenance is the same in all countries the same as what happens when you push the stick forward in all countries so let's not limit our knowledge and information exchange to just one geographic region because, if a carby spring breaks in UK, it may well break in the US, Aust, NZ, South Africa etc.

Please join in and tell everyone about this great resource as a world wide information exchange and discussion place for everything recreational aviation. Land may well be specific but the skies are world wide

 

 

[facthunter]

Yes, and all pilots should not go right to the edge of the sky at the bottom without due care, all around the world, since we are pushing that stick back and forth, with Gay abandon, whoever she is. Nev

 

 

[geoffreywh]

how interesting!

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

Recreational Flying (.com) may have started here in Australia however it is set up now with region specific forums for the whole world. There is a UK specific forum here as well as US etc. The Governing Bodies forum is for all countries and can include discussions on RAAus, BMAA, ELAAA, FAA, CASA, etc etc etc. Engine, aircraft etc maintenance is the same in all countries the same as what happens when you push the stick forward in all countries so let's not limit our knowledge and information exchange to just one geographic region because, if a carby spring breaks in UK, it may well break in the US, Aust, NZ, South Africa etc.Please join in and tell everyone about this great resource as a world wide information exchange and discussion place for everything recreational aviation. Land may well be specific but the skies are world wide

I am all for not limiting knowledge that is Aviation related whether it be UK,USA or NZ or even Outer Mongolia, the large section of this post is ( or was ) posted to get an opinion from Kasper aka Kirk. It wasn't something that I expected hidden agendas to come to the forefront, luckily I know the pudding stirrers & they are harmless so please just accept our Pommie sense of humour as banter.

 

 

[kasper]

Lol. Peter you got your posts from me at the start. Anything you choose to continue with in respect to the BMAA is up to you. As you and others point out you are not actually practically limited in the uk by not being a member as your licence entitles you to fly without membership and as you've chosen SSDR aircraft you do not even need to wrangle an annual permit ... very unlike Australia where membership is required to validate your certificate. (Unless you fly one of the classes of aircraft our seriously poor drafts men/women in RAAus head office simply forgot to include in the requirements of the ops manual)

 

For clarity though ... you are not the first person refused membership of the association in the uk.

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

Lol. Peter you got your posts from me at the start. Anything you choose to continue with in respect to the BMAA is up to you. As you and others point out you are not actually practically limited in the uk by not being a member as your licence entitles you to fly without membership and as you've chosen SSDR aircraft you do not even need to wrangle an annual permit ... very unlike Australia where membership is required to validate your certificate. (Unless you fly one of the classes of aircraft our seriously poor drafts men/women in RAAus head office simply forgot to include in the requirements of the ops manual)For clarity though ... you are not the first person refused membership of the association in the uk.

Kasper, I appreciated your posts at the start, I thought I would be exempt from having to discuss BMAA Politics on the Australia /NZ flying forums but John Mundy found his way onto here ( as has Geoff W ). Just out of Curiousity, who else has been refused renewal of their membership? ( PM me if you want to keep it out of the Public Domain )

With me now being associated to quite a few ZK registered aircraft I am keeping my head down, I am currently supplying GA Aircraft & Ultralights to a few NZ Residents..... in fact the exports to NZ over the last 24 months has been a bigger part of my Aircraft Sales compared to EU Exports.

 

There are some superb aircraft for sale in NZ that would suit the UK Market ( if we didn't have such negativity to imports ) I have just tried to get UK Clearance to import a ZK registered Warbird Replica which both the LAA & CAA have declined to accept as being 'safe to operate' in the UK.

 

This is as Crazy as the LAA/BMAA/CAA not accepting a WT9 Dynamic with retractable undercarriage because the LAA only cleared the Fixed Gear version when it was introduced.... they feel the RG Version is too complex for UK users !!!! Luckily I have the WT9 RG on the Italian Advanced ULM register.

 

 

 

[johnny3star]

For admin/mods clarification, I’ve only recently become aware of (and registered on) this forum.

 

I was directed here, during research into an unknown (to me) aircraft type, recently registered for the annual Fly-UK 2017 jaunt, that I usually participate in.

 

Link here if anyone’s interested http://www.fly-uk.co.uk/fly-uk/

 

Other than being a standard BMAA member, I have no special interest in the associations politics.

 

However, I usually attend the AGM, and take a passing interest in the competency levels of our elected council members, and any potential nominees.

 

In general as unpaid volunteers, most do a pretty good job.

 

I certainly don’t have any ‘hidden agenda’, and being accused of being a “pudding stirrer” is frankly a bit rich,

 

particularly when considering both the threads main subject, which is a one-sided public anti-BMAA rant,

 

and who began the ‘discussion’ in the first place!

 

As with many things, there’s often an alternative view

 

Cheers

 

JM

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

For admin/mods clarification, I’ve only recently become aware of (and registered on) this forum.I was directed here, during research into an unknown (to me) aircraft type, recently registered for the annual Fly-UK 2017 jaunt, that I usually participate in.

Link here if anyone’s interested http://www.fly-uk.co.uk/fly-uk/

 

Other than being a standard BMAA member, I have no special interest in the associations politics.

 

However, I usually attend the AGM, and take a passing interest in the competency levels of our elected council members, and any potential nominees.

 

In general as unpaid volunteers, most do a pretty good job.

 

I certainly don’t have any ‘hidden agenda’, and being accused of being a “pudding stirrer” is frankly a bit rich,

 

particularly when considering both the threads main subject, which is a one-sided public anti-BMAA rant,

 

and who began the ‘discussion’ in the first place!

 

As with many things, there’s often an alternative view

 

Cheers

 

JM

Johnny, I am sure you don't have any 'hidden agenda' where it comes to the Quaich nor do you really have much interest in the BMAA Politics, that is blatantly obvious as you have never put yourself up for Election.

I am all for you having a passing interest in the competency levels of the elected council members, and any potential nominees.

 

I know exactly what my Faults are & I also know what my positives are, suffice to say my competency levels are streets ahead of the complacency levels of those who have been elected over recent years.

 

The BMAA have been bothered by the fact that both myself & Rick were standing in the elections at the same time and they knew Rick & I together could change the dynamics somewhat, lets face it the BMAA didn't really want Rick either, but the BMAA only exists still because Rick did get elected & he was forceful enough to get changes made, the biggest mistake the membership made was to oust Rick in favour of Deepak ( Deepak received the highest recorded votes ever & yet the opinion from a fellow Council Member is " He has done nothing of any consequence " )

 

I am glad everyone is entitled to voice their opinions, I would put a lot more provenance on your remarks if you had ever stood for a position but alas you haven't so I am at least someone who stepped up to the plate instead of sitting back and opining on something you haven't had the volition to try yourself. I am sure you understand the saying " You have to be in it to win it "

 

There are always runners up in every competition, are you saying that anyone who thinks or knows they might be the 'underdog' shouldn't compete in anything just to give the other entrants an easy time.

 

I will publically say that whenever there were complete deadwood standing for election I would stand just to stop a shoehorning of the deadwood back into seats without a bunfight ;-) Conceitedly I know I would have been better than any of the current council members because I am an outspoken & controversial type of guy who can't sit in a cosy chair doing nothing ( a trait that every council member has now ) Even TV is losing his desire to do anything because he has 7 bits of deadwood around him.

 

Anyway, it is all ancient history now so let's focus on the future & the future is Bright.

 

 

[johnny3star]

Johnny, I am sure you don't have any 'hidden agenda' where it comes to the Quaich

 

Eh? I only heard about the Quaich less than a week ago, I just wondered what it was that’s all.

 

nor do you really have much interest in the BMAA Politics, that is blatantly obvious as you have never put yourself up for Election.

 

As I’ve said, I don’t have any special (or vested) interest in it, and no, I’ve never stood for election.

 

I am all for you having a passing interest in the competency levels of the elected council members, and any potential nominees.

 

Good, I’m glad we can both agree this is a positive attribute of mine.

 

I know exactly what my Faults are

 

Do you mean repeatedly standing for election, knowing you have absolutely no chance of being elected?

 

& I also know what my positives are,

 

go on then, I’m all ears . . . .

 

suffice to say my competency levels are streets ahead of the complacency levels of those who have been elected over recent years.

 

However, despite this rather un-impartial assessment,

 

you always received the lowest number of votes of any candidate in every single election you ever contested, how do you explain that? Were they all ‘fixed’ as you once alleged?

 

The BMAA have been bothered by the fact that both myself & Rick were standing in the elections at the same time and they knew Rick & I together could change the dynamics somewhat,

 

I think the BMAA membership as a whole were certainly concerned by

 

1. The gradual erosion of ‘quality’ council candidates, and

 

2. The annually recurring ‘screaming lord sutch’ type candidates?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screaming_Lord_Sutch

 

lets face it the BMAA didn't really want Rick either,

 

I can’t disagree with your assessment of that.

 

but the BMAA only exists still because Rick did get elected

 

Yes he did, but only by default.

 

If I recall, in 2012 there were four vacant seats, and only five candidates including yourself and Rick G

 

Rick G was ‘elected’ by being the ‘least worst’ candidate. You (as usual) came last (and by some margin).

 

& he was forceful enough to get changes made,

 

I’m not sure what changes you are referring to?

 

the biggest mistake the membership made was to oust Rick in favour of Deepak

 

When Rick Gs 3 year period on council ended in 2015, he stood for re-election in the usual way.

 

If I recall there were three available seats, being contested by six candidates (including yourself).

 

Deepak, Bremner and Grimwood were all elected with 395, 373 and 341 votes respectively.

 

Rick G got 291 votes, Adrian Jones got 269 votes, and you received 112 votes.

 

(Deepak received the highest recorded votes ever & yet the opinion from a fellow Council Member is " He has done nothing of any consequence " )

 

Deepaks 395 votes in 2015 were nothing unusual, and certainly not the highest recorded votes ever.

 

In 2011 Paul Dewhurst received 668 votes

 

In 2012 Dave Bremner received 552 votes

 

In 2012 Rob Grimwood received 535 votes

 

In 2011 Chris Draper received 524 votes

 

In 2011 Paul Welsh received 511 votes

 

I am glad everyone is entitled to voice their opinions,

 

Me too

 

I would put a lot more provenance on your remarks if you had ever stood for a position but alas you haven't

 

Well, your remarks would hold a lot more weight if they were factually correct, instead of sounding like the deluded ramblings of someone with an anti-BMAA axe to grind.

 

so I am at least someone who stepped up to the plate

 

Yes, over and over again, despite consistently receiving the lowest votes of any candidate, every time

 

instead of sitting back and opining on something you haven't had the volition to try yourself. I am sure you understand the saying " You have to be in it to win it " There are always runners up in every competition, are you saying that anyone who thinks or knows they might be the 'underdog' shouldn't compete in anything just to give the other entrants an easy time.

 

I honestly believe that Lord Lucan, or even Red Rum would’ve consistently got more votes than you did.

 

I will publically say that whenever there were complete deadwood standing for election I would stand just to stop a shoehorning of the deadwood back into seats without a bunfight ;-)

 

I think that was also Screming Lord Sutch’s motto?

 

Conceitedly I know I would have been better than any of the current council members

 

Unfortunately, despite having numerous opportunities to elect you, the membership disagreed.

 

because I am an outspoken & controversial type of guy

 

No shit, Sherlock

 

who can't sit in a cosy chair doing nothing ( a trait that every council member has now ) Even TV is losing his desire to do anything because he has 7 bits of deadwood around him.

 

I also have the upmost respect and admiration for Terry Viner

 

Anyway, it is all ancient history now so let's focus on the future & the future is Bright.

 

OK, please disregard my comments, see you for a beer on Fly-UK

 

cheers

 

JM