Admin Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 This is an important announcement to ALL users of this site. As been done many times this site has offered to work with RAAus however that has always been met with stern refusals. That is their choice not this site's. Recreational Flying by the same token as above will work with and support the ELAAA in any way it can should they choose to in the same manner that has continously been offered to RAAus. This valuable resource can offer a lot in helping the promotion, help and support to all recreational aviators and is willing to provide a positive connection between this site, its thousands of users and any governing body that wishes to avail themselves of it. RAAus has continually declined that to a point of negatively attacking this site over 13 years. If the ELAAA wishes to avail themselves of creating a working relationship instead then it will be welcomed with open arms and even to a point of the establishment of a memorandum of understanding. The same has always been offered to RAAus. So from this point on, any post in the forums or anywhere else on this site that pits one against the other in any form, any subjectiveness what so ever will see the post immediately removed by one of the moderators, wasting your time in writing it and wasting the time of the moderators. This site is an open window to the world wide public on recreational aviation, there are representatives on here from CASA, ATSB, many different media outlets, politicians and many other registered users from all avenues that have an interest in our industry. We need respectability in our industry and if having another governing body assists that then we should all be seen as supporting that goal. Ian Baker Recreational Flying Administrator 14 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 I recall GW Bush running the line "If you are not with me , you are against me." That is plainly BS designed to manipulate a situation for GW's advantage. Sometimes called emotional blackmail.. Competing organisations will tout for business and win adherents on merit. That's nothing anyone should be afraid of. The big question is will CASA get it's act together? That problem affects very much the future of all non airline operations in this Country. Every enquiry has criticised it's performance to no effect. (so far). Not being able to keep a CEO is a bad sign.Nev 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 well written admin thank you for your continued support off this sport and the devotion time effort you have put into this site neil 1 12 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 Thank you for what you do in respect of running this site Ian. When me lotto nimbers come up, I'll send yer a wheelbarrow of these new five pound notes we've just been issued,. . .you can put them in a washing machine. . .as they are plastic. On a state pension, until then I'll have to freeeload here. . .( ! ) I Am in the dark here as to why there are 'Political' problems with various organisations although, it seems somewhat similar to the troubles we had a few years back with bitching and backbiting between the Popular Flying Association ( PFA - Now the LAA ) The BMAA (British Microlight Aircraft Assiciation ) and the CAA in the UK. We now have both umbrella organisations working hand in glove to sort any and all difficulties with all factors governing the operation of Microlight / Light sport aviation, and agreed delineation of tasks. The CAA have become very reasonable in their approach also, and have recently reduced the medical requirements to a sensible level, ie, if you can drive a car on a freeway / motorway at seventy miles an hour, surronuded by 40 tonne trucks, then it is not unreasonable to assume that you are medically fit to fly a light aeroplane too. So the CLASS 2 semi-commerial medical has now been trashed for private pilots. and not before time. We can now fly any aircraft up to a MTOW of 2000 Kgs on the strength of a UK driving licence and a voluntary admission of any particular medical condition which would preclude driving a car. We shall soon see if this was a bad idea, If half blind drivers start bumping into to other half blind drivers in the air. . . . . I don't join in arguments regarding Aussie Aero-Poltical stuff, as I really don't understand what it's all about. but I hope that they all sort themselves out instead of behaving like bloody children having their sweeties nicked in the school playground. . . this attitude assists no one and restrains advancement of everything. . . United we stand brothers and sisters. . . . YAY ! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgpete Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Who are the ELAA? Where is their website? Where is their constitution? What are their membership numbers? Are they really capable of becoming a Sports Aviation Self Administration Organization ( SASAO ) ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 Who are the ELAA?Where is their website? Where is their constitution? What are their membership numbers? Are they really capable of becoming a Sports Aviation Self Administration Organization ( SASAO ) ? They are the only ones who can answer your questions which are very premature at this point in time. I suggest you wait until they make formal announcements which should provide you and others the answers to your questions 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgpete Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Wait - you make a formal announcement that this site is going to be working with the ELAA and the RAA - and then you say the ELAA arnt ready and dont have this info available? - what was the point of the previous announcement then? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 Well PgPete, perhaps you can show everyone where it IS stated that this site WILL be working with anyone? I can see where an offer was made but can't see where as you said "this site IS going to be working". The same offer has been given to both RAAus and ELAAA, and in fact the same offer is also given to HGFA, GFA, SAAA and any other governing body. You also state "will be working with RAA". I can only see it stated that the RAAus has declined all offers. Perhaps you could advise what your intentions are by making those statements 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Stirring, most likely. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Wait - you make a formal announcement that this site is going to be working with the ELAA and the RAA - and then you say the ELAA arnt ready and dont have this info available? - what was the point of the previous announcement then? Recreational Flying by the same token as above will work with and support the ELAAA in any way it can should they choose to (OME's edit) in the same manner that has continously been offered to RAAus.Ian Baker Recreational Flying Administrator I'd say Ian was quite clear in expressing the Recreational Flying's position. OME 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 Any Governing Body may wish to seize on the opportunity to enter into a Memorandum of Understanding between themselves and this site, that could document an understanding between the two on how this site can help them and how they can help this site, the acceptable boundaries, the direction of the site for them and much more. A definition of a MoU is: "A memorandum of understanding (MoU) describes a bilateral or multilateral agreement between two or more parties. It expresses a convergence of will between the parties, indicating an intended common line of action. It is often used in cases where parties either do not imply a legal commitment or in situations where the parties cannot create a legally enforceable agreement. It is a more formal alternative to a gentlemen's agreement." As it implies, a gentleman's agreement that this site will "do" for them, and that can be very broad or specific, and vice-a-versa. An example of a benefit is the Governing Body has their own forum here, if they like they can moderate it, control who can view it, who can create threads in it, who can post in it whilst at the same time leveraging of all the site users, recreational aviation promotion, they can even sell advertising space in their own forum if they like. All it takes is for the two of us to site down and discuss how we can help each other, document it, agree to it and begin a healthy and beneficial working relationship for the betterment of all recreational aviators. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bats Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 As Confucius say; "Deja Poo". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 As Confucius say; "Deja Poo". Care to elaborate what you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick-p Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 This is an important announcement to ALL users of this site.As been done many times this site has offered to work with RAAus however that has always been met with stern refusals. That is their choice not this site's. Recreational Flying by the same token as above will work with and support the ELAAA in any way it can should they choose to in the same manner that has continously been offered to RAAus. This valuable resource can offer a lot in helping the promotion, help and support to all recreational aviators and is willing to provide a positive connection between this site, its thousands of users and any governing body that wishes to avail themselves of it. RAAus has continually declined that to a point of negatively attacking this site over 13 years. If the ELAAA wishes to avail themselves of creating a working relationship instead then it will be welcomed with open arms and even to a point of the establishment of a memorandum of understanding. The same has always been offered to RAAus. So from this point on, any post in the forums or anywhere else on this site that pits one against the other in any form, any subjectiveness what so ever will see the post immediately removed by one of the moderators, wasting your time in writing it and wasting the time of the moderators. This site is an open window to the world wide public on recreational aviation, there are representatives on here from CASA, ATSB, many different media outlets, politicians and many other registered users from all avenues that have an interest in our industry. We need respectability in our industry and if having another governing body assists that then we should all be seen as supporting that goal. Ian Baker Recreational Flying Administrator Ian without wishing to create another which is the best brand argument on what is a much appreciated. by the majority of the flying fraternity web site, I would like it to be known for those who are interested in finding out some facts in respect of the company Experimental & Light Aircraft Aviators Australia (ELAAA) then maybe they should attend the CDFG Fly-In at Thangool Airport this coming weekend Saturday 1st Oct to Mon 3rd Oct as I understand that there are to be some announcements made over the weekend. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick-p Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Thank you for what you do in respect of running this site Ian.When me lotto nimbers come up, I'll send yer a wheelbarrow of these new five pound notes we've just been issued,. . .you can put them in a washing machine. . .as they are plastic. On a state pension, until then I'll have to freeeload here. . .( ! ) I Am in the dark here as to why there are 'Political' problems with various organisations although, it seems somewhat similar to the troubles we had a few years back with bitching and backbiting between the Popular Flying Association ( PFA - Now the LAA ) The BMAA (British Microlight Aircraft Assiciation ) and the CAA in the UK. We now have both umbrella organisations working hand in glove to sort any and all difficulties with all factors governing the operation of Microlight / Light sport aviation, and agreed delineation of tasks. The CAA have become very reasonable in their approach also, and have recently reduced the medical requirements to a sensible level, ie, if you can drive a car on a freeway / motorway at seventy miles an hour, surronuded by 40 tonne trucks, then it is not unreasonable to assume that you are medically fit to fly a light aeroplane too. So the CLASS 2 semi-commerial medical has now been trashed for private pilots. and not before time. We can now fly any aircraft up to a MTOW of 2000 Kgs on the strength of a UK driving licence and a voluntary admission of any particular medical condition which would preclude driving a car. We shall soon see if this was a bad idea, If half blind drivers start bumping into to other half blind drivers in the air. . . . . I don't join in arguments regarding Aussie Aero-Poltical stuff, as I really don't understand what it's all about. but I hope that they all sort themselves out instead of behaving like bloody children having their sweeties nicked in the school playground. . . this attitude assists no one and restrains advancement of everything. . . United we stand brothers and sisters. . . . YAY ! Hey Phil nothing to do with your post I was just wondering if you know a Mark Hoggett, fly's trikes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundsounds Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 It would be refreshing to have a choice as to whether ultra light aircraft operate under: - CASA or - a committee run/not for profit organisation or - a professionally run commercial organisation I have no knowledge of who/what ELAAA is, but if they fit into the 3rd category I reckon they'd get some followers. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Hey Phil nothing to do with your post I was just wondering if you know a Mark Hoggett, fly's trikes? Not off the top of me 'ead Rick,. . .any idea where he flies from ?. . .there are dozens of clubs and private fields dotted around the UK, we get loads of weekend visitors, a lot of whom I know by Sight, and some first names. . I know 3 blokes named 'Mark', all trike flyers. . .2 of them are from Darley Moor and Calton Moor airfields, and one from a strip in North Wales. . .? Sorry that I can't be any more help ATM. . . . ( Sorry for the Off topic reply Boss. . . ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick-p Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Not off the top of me 'ead Rick,. . .any idea where he flies from ?. . .there are dozens of clubs and private fields dotted around the UK, we get loads of weekend visitors, a lot of whom I know by Sight, and some first names. . I know 3 blokes named 'Mark', all trike flyers. . .2 of them are from Darley Moor and Calton Moor airfields, and one from a strip in North Wales. . .? Sorry that I can't be any more help ATM. . . .( Sorry for the Off topic reply Boss. . . ) No i don't Phil i will find out and message you, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Those of us who create threads or post replies in other's threads are operating under an MOU between the site owner (Ian) and ourselves. In offering an specific MOU to other organisations be they governmental, not-for-profit or commercial, I can see nothing that runs counter to the philosophy of this site. After all, the Morgan and Aeropup companies have threads here and no one has made a complaint about their presence. OME 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montymagic Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Best of luck Ian. Rarely in todays world do organisations value the efforts of the self spawned entrepreneur such as yourself. This site fills an important vacuum that our governing body has failed to appreciate, encourage and foster.That is we deserve to be informed and in a manner that is accurate and transparent. Cheers monty. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick-p Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 For those that it may be of interest to, ELAAA does exist and is alive and well progressing quite nicely towards it's end goal of obtaining approval from the regulator. For those that are interested and want to register their interest or have specific and reasonable questions answered please email [email protected] Our website at this time is under construction and I will advise in due course when it will be available for perusal. Thank you all. 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 We know that ELAAA does exist, but what we don't have at this time is ELAAA as a working alternative to RAAus. The directors say that they have the paperwork with CASA and it is up to CASA to approve their organisation. Personally I believe that CASA will do all the necessary approvals, hopefully by the end of November or early new year. For those of you who have been critical of RAAus this will be a way of voicing your approval by changing over. For those who are happy with all that RAAus does there will be no need to change. For those who are undecided I believe they will soon be able to compare the organisations and make up their own minds. Then there are the few who if unhappy with either camp can de register their planes and try to re register with CASA. Give it a bit of time and hopefully all will be revealed. I appreciate that ELAAA cannot make any statements until CASA has approved their entry into the field. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyflyer Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 I appreciate that ELAAA cannot make any statements until CASA has approved their entry into the field. I don't see why they can't make a statement about their proposed structure while they are waiting for CASA. It's not a court case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 ELAAA should promote itself and work hard to be an organisation members want to be part of, not just as an alternative to RAA or as some way to "show RAA" their disapproval No reason people can't be members of both Id have thought 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 ELAAA should promote itself and work hard to be an organisation members want to be part of,not just as an alternative to RAA or as some way to "show RAA" their disapproval No reason people can't be members of both Id have thought I don't quite understand. What members? This Is a Pty Ltd company and it will have customers. Kaz 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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