Kyle Communications Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 Managed to do a reasonable amount of work on Mabel last week and this weekend. Lots of making joints and breaking them again to sort out the mess that had been done when she was originally put together. Rule number one with a savannah kit is if it doesnt fit you have done something wrong. This obviously doesnt compute with the original builder. The whole flaperon mixer must have been out of alignment as the picture on the small 120deg angle bracket with the extra holes in it is one of the parts that holds the frame together that sets the pivots for the flaperon mixer. This is part of the extended baggage area. Mind you there are probably 30 or 50 brackets and places on this aircraft where parts have been drilled to make it fit. The amount of new brackets I have made is just ridiculous, luckily I have the alu sheet sizes on hand here and machinery at work to do it and a good mate Danny Leach that I rely on as well to help get over these humps. Danny also has the same issues as his he is rebuilding was put together by the same people so basically we each discover the same issues. I have included a picture of how they did the overlap and its wrong The seat back sheet was riveted over the top of the forward floor of the baggage area...it is supposed to go under so I have a complete row of redrilled holes in the forward baggage area sheet where it connects to the seat back. This would also have set the angle wrong as the pivot point for the flaperon mixer is fixed by rails to that seat back so they would have not been at the right height either. I was going to make a new one but I will just bend up a new cover strip at the correct angle and just fit it through the original holes and that will cover them all up I have been cleaning the paint off the 2 cabin side sections and also preparing to replace the small vertical angle alu that was bent so will be doing some solid riviting later this week. Its a big job to pull apart the flaperon mixer to alodine it so I have cleaned it all up and then used Prekote on it and have etch primed it so thats how it will stay. I didnt want to acid any of it as it has too many overlaps and I couldnt be sure about cleaning the acid out completely The big project at the moment is to fit the ballistic parachute into the baggage area. The chute is 13kg so is a bit of weight. There are 2 vertical rails that the chute package will bolt to but to share the load over the area I have made another 25 thou right angle and riveted it to the original V bent strip that connected the rear half ot the front half of the baggage area. The 2 rails are attached to the top cross member which I will fit a custom alu cover strip to rivet into this to make that top rail stronger as well. The chute and the rocket will have a 25thou sheet box made around it so that if it is ever deployed then the exhaust from the rocket will be kept contained inside and will go out the top with the chute. If it sounds complicated it not..a couple of pics when I get it done will show. This really all needs to be done now while I have reasonable access to this area. Then after its all painted and getting fitted out the chute can go in properly. You will notice a wooden frame at the chute opening. I would like to thank Dennis from Sweden for sending it to me he had a spare :)...its rounded on the inside to make sure the chute doesnt get ripped or caught as it deploys out of the metal roof area. This week also will put a bent edge on the rounded corner sheets for the fuselage this should give a nice edge where they mate with the other 4 flat sheets On another note I was hoping to fly the Girlfriend this weekend but its been cats and dogs here. Finally sure now my oil pressure issue is gone. Cross fingers next weekend the weather gods will be kinder 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APenNameAndThatA Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I am disappointed and disgusted. If these 'build experts' are the cause of eventual airframe failures, I wonder if their guilty consciences will get them to get back to all the other planes they have built and correct the deficiencies? ...I would say not! The main problem is that the media will report something like "catastrophic ultralight airframe failure leads to multiple deaths". They may add the word "home made" in their article to make matters worse for careful home builders. Before long, CASA will launch an Enquiry. This Enquiry could recommend a strict (and costly) inspection regime and/or tough restrictions on home builders. I am glad you're discovering their shortcuts Mark, and correcting them. Disclaimer: 25 total hours, 5 recently. AOPA says that the five bad attitudes are impulsivity, anti authority, macho, invulnerability and resignation. I think that it might be better off changing resignation to agreeableness. The example of resignation is of someone thinking that no more can be done in an emergency. It is much more likely that someone will "resign" to going along with something when they are under social pressure and don't want to back their own judgement to say that something is wrong. Classic crashes, like the ones where copilots did not say no to their captains could be seen as examples of this. The relevance to this situation is exactly how pissed off someone might get because someone tried to kill them (so to speak) through dodgy building methods. Another example of agreeableness causing problems might be someone not wanting to offend and thereby not doing their own preflight. Another way of looking at emotions is that the primary use of the emotion of anger is to push back forcefully when that needs to happen. Anger is a very primitive emotion. So an excessive lack of anger might incline people to go along with situations where someone desperately needs to be told to f--- off. Of course, too much anger will cause really big problems. Anger literally stops the brain's frontal lobes from working as well. The theory is that thinking messes up anger the same-ish way that thinking messes up a golf swing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 I havent had too much of a chance to work on Mabel this week at night as the boss has me doing some stuff hopefully this weekend I can get a heap more done and go for a fly..the weather at least looks ok so far. But got the rails sorted and brackets made for the bottom and top sections. The vertical rails will be held into the top and bottom rails with nutserts (rivnuts to some). This is to try to make it easy enough to get the chute out instead of ripping half the aircraft apart when its time for a repack or rocket changeover. I have to remove the brackets and alodine them now then when they go back I can start to fit the actual parachute but I still have to work out how I am going to mount the rocket yet. Once all that is done then I can make the blast cover..then I can get back to the main building. I have a right angle tensioner under the baggage tray at that angle between the front and rear trays then now another piece to help spread the weight of the chute and also to mount the bottom ends of the mounting rails. At the top I have added a 25 thou front plate to the overhead frame this allows more meat to both the rails to and also because its full width and riveted to the frame this also helps spread the load 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Very interesting Mark. It seems like the chute will take quite a bit of space from the baggage compartment, even an extended one. However, I think it is a life saving 'must-have'. I wonder how much the chute and rocket combination affects the weight and balance? As the balance will be a bit Aft it may mean I have to put a bigger engine up front for the sake of proper balance! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 Where it is sitting its pretty close to the CG so it wont really be a issue. I will have more of a issue having the vertical skin side panels at 20thou instead of 16 thou. I havent finalized the battery mount holder yet and wont until I do the weight and balance. I do expect to have to maybe bring it forward a bit if I use a normal lead acid but if we get this regulator finished a lithium batter probably at the front bulkhead might do the trip or ithat sort of battery may even need to be inside the engine compartment. I am really surprised at Karl's noseweight that is really heavy....As JG commented I would be really concerned about the nose leg and breaking it off also the CG at the most forward it wont be pleasant to fly either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 A bit more progress tonight. I have the mounts on the chute and its spaced so it is centred in the eject hole in the top just have to mount the chute horizontal supports to the vertical ones. I have to make a small angled shelf to hold the bottom of the chute where it sits about 6mm off the baggage shelf. I saw this in the ICP paperwork but mine will need to be different. I also now have to make the mount for the rocket so it is nicely centred in its round eject hole as well. Hopefully can get all that done this weekend so I can start on the housing to stop the exhaust of the rocket into the cabin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 Good news today. RAAUS rang me and have accepted my permit to build as a new aircraft so the original number will not be used...sorry Page ? The reason is there are constraints on what you can do with the aircraft because you are not the original builder. Also as I have taken everything back to basically a full kit due to other circumstances and quite a lot of the parts are now new either factory supplied or manufactured by myself it can be treated as a new build. I also applied for a new rego number for "Mabel" and it will be 19-8998 the "Girfriend" is 19-7998 so maybe if RAA get their act into gear with the 760kg weight increase then the "Mistress" the Rans S21 when she gets built may end up being 19-9998...that would be great...easy to remember all of my aircraft. We also had a quick discussion about ballistic parachutes and their handling regarding repacking and rocket replacement...expect to see proceedures coming for these in the new or a updated Tech Manual. Driven mainly I believe about the crazy red tape OH&S crap that seems to be running rampant now days Borrowed Danny's small 600mm panbrake today so I can make the blast shield/container for the rocket. I could do it at work but then thats a issue to get it perfect going back and forth to work...I can make up something and trial fit so thats this weekends job. I was going to put a box around the chute and the rocket but it makes much more sense for added weight and ease to just make it to completely surround the rocket up to the exit. The other main thing is to make a strong but light mount for the rocket itself as it is in a different position off the imaginary rear wall that isnt there in the extended baggage area Mark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 There is compulsory fitment of ballistic chutes in some European countries so I am surprised that you have to invent this all from scratch. Doesn't ICP supply all the mounting hardware as an add-on kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 24, 2019 Author Share Posted March 24, 2019 Hi hank We are the only country I believe that has the extended baggage kit come out as a standard. The parachute fitment is for the std baggage area which is on the back side of the standard baggage area rear wall. The 2 vertical rails you see in the pics is where the original back wall of the std baggage area is. This does not exist on mine so I have to sort of mount mine in the air so to speak and still retain as much of the usuable area still available for baggage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 G'day Mark, Because the NZ dealer was a sub-agent of Reg's Aerokits* business, Savannah buyers in NZ were supplied with four fuel tanks and the extended baggage area as well. That is how my kit is supplied. Perhaps Down Under in general fit into this ICP policy? NZ kits also come 'standard' with adjustable seats. I am interested in what you're doing with the BRS because, when I get to the fuselage in my build, I will have another conversation with my wife to confirm that she wants me to fly with a ballistic chute. I can predict the answer: Yes! ... she wants to keep me . I am really interested in your chute progress for this reason. I am also curious how useable the remaining baggage area will be after fitting the chute. So far, your pictures tell the story well. *now that Reg has sold the business, I am not sure what the arrangement with the NZ sub-agent is at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 I have a issue at the moment that I am waiting on a answer from GalaxySky (chute manufacturer). The rocket on mine is velcroed to the softpack and sort of for a multitude of different mountings. The rocket is totally enclosed in a plastic cover with velcro on the back to be put onto the side of the pack. I want to solid mount the rocket using its mount which I can see the screws for on the back of the plastic section but I cant seem to get them out so I can use those to mount the rocket solidly to. So I have asked them if it is ok to remove the plactic as its easy enough its just tiny rivets holding it all tother . This way I can position the rocket where the hole is in the skin on the Sav which is about 120mm away from the chute opening. If they say to leave the rocket on the softpack then I will have to fill the existing hole and make a new one next to the chute opening. I will take some more pics tonight but either way I will need to make a blast cover to stop the gasses coming into the cabin if it gets set off. If I can separate the rocket onto its own mount then I only need a small blast cover around the rocket. If not then I will need to make one that goes around the lot. There is still a fair amount of room available even after fitting the chute at least more than 50% of the separate back section of the extended baggage area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 I have the L2 coming over wednesday to look at what I have done so far and tell me if its all ok then I can get to the skinning of it all. Hopefully I will get a answer from galaxy tonight so I can get it sorted and Jim can run his eye over it all as well to see he is happy with it as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Oh I made the support tray for the bottom of the softpack too on the weekend. Its a little agricultural but is very strong and light its made from 25 thou. The support tray will be riveted to the plate at the front between the 2 verticals and onderneath as well to the baggage shelf. All of these parts have to be removed and alodined yet .I am just waiting until the rocket stuff is sorted 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Got my answer back on the chute this afternoon. Looks like the rocket stays on the pack and I do some mods to the top skin, its probably the easiest solution anyway. Also will make a total wrap around for the exhaust gas out of 16tho. Ok now I can start back on work with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 My big bore kit turned up today :)...looks really nice. Will see when it gets done it maybe trialed in Mabel...if it makes a big difference then I might get another one and mod the motor out of Mabel for the S21. Now got to get onto Danny and Jim to get that tuned exhaust finished that fits in the Sav ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan tonner Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 ".........….the only country I believe that has the extended baggage kit come out as a standard……………….." Hi Mark; I've been following the "Mabel rebuild" with considerable interest. It looks great and appears as if you will have a far finer airplane than the one that appeared on the original designer's blueprints. FWIW: my 2010 Savannah XLVG was the only model offered to North America when I purchased it in 2011; - it, of course, had the extended baggage feature. I believed that as the ICP models underwent manufacturer's modifications over the years, older versions were discontinued (once existing kits were sold off) and another handful of assembly manual pages were added to the documentation package. All the best, Canada Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Hi Dan Good to hear from you. yes this has turned out to be a bit more than I originally expected but the end product will certainly be one of the best around....I hope ? Just been out in the shed looking at how I can do this parachute mod that galaxy has sent me. A bit of modifying and it should be ok. I didnt particularly want to do it this way as I had thought about it but best to tow the line when told by the experts ? I will have to make a couple of new cover plates and inserts for the pullouts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted April 1, 2019 Author Share Posted April 1, 2019 Been slowly getting stuff done on the chute install. I asked GRS about the rocket install and they told me the rocket needs to be attached to the pack so now need to come up with a different cover and exit. They sent me a pic of what it should be like which they have drawn on but I think it is to have one complete cover now instead of a cover for the chute and one for the rocket. I have asked for a clarification but have banked on the answer to be the one cover so I have made a initial setup but will wait until I hear back as I can make it either way at this stage. Because the rocket stays on the pack I have to make a total enclosure for the gas..well I dont have to but it would be much safer than a rocket going off behind your ear. I have made the backing now just have to cut and make the rest. Its all out of 16thou so wont weigh much at all. I have put rivnuts in to hold the mounting rails and backing with some strengthening on the top frame for the rivnuts. Some pics to show this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted April 2, 2019 Author Share Posted April 2, 2019 Got the sheet measured and angles done so cut the 16 thou sheet up and have done a trial fit for the chute/rocket blast enclosure. has worked out pretty well. GRS say at least 20mm gap all the way around for containment so there is wiggle room for the chute if deployed. I am using 20 thou strips the same as we made the longerons for the corners of the box and it will have rivnuts on the rear panel and the 2 front ones so I can get the box apart easily if and when the chute needs to be removed. It is all just taped at the moment to make sure it all fits reasonably well and is square. Once all of this is done I can alodine it all and then continue on with putting the front on Mabel. The box is pretty big but I still have usefull room behind it and also on the rocket side so maybe have lost about just over half of the space in the rear section so not too bad 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Got the sheet measured and angles done so cut the 16 thou sheet up and have done a trial fit for the chute/rocket blast enclosure. has worked out pretty well. GRS say at least 20mm gap all the way around for containment so there is wiggle room for the chute if deployed. I am using 20 thou strips the same as we made the longerons for the corners of the box and it will have rivnuts on the rear panel and the 2 front ones so I can get the box apart easily if and when the chute needs to be removed. It is all just taped at the moment to make sure it all fits reasonably well and is square. Once all of this is done I can alodine it all and then continue on with putting the front on Mabel. The box is pretty big but I still have usefull room behind it and also on the rocket side so maybe have lost about just over half of the space in the rear section so not too bad [ATTACH]39029[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]39030[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]39031[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]39032[/ATTACH] It seems that it still better to have the extended baggage area for more space, even with a chute in place. Is GRS the only recommended chute for the Savannah? ...or are there a number of possible ballistic chutes for this plane?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 There are a few manufacturers. Galaxy, Junkers, BRS and maybe some others. BRS is way expensive here..10K for BRS. They all do the hard case versions but they are more expensive. The main issue is for me is none supply specific instructions for the Savannah with the extended baggage area. They have a generic install arrangement so you sort of have to follow that but the actual mountings are a bit hairy fairy for the Sav. Either way the reason for the box I have done is the rocket blast inside the cabin. That would create a issue. So the box takes up a bit of cubic area. I am almost finished the box I was waiting on rivnuts which will arrive today so I can get it finished this weekend and I can then continue on with the build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 BRS in New Zealand costs $NZD11,845 plus freight from Auckland to other parts of the country. This is equivalent to $AUD11,230 at today's rate. That is pretty pricey. They tell me they weigh 13 kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted April 10, 2019 Author Share Posted April 10, 2019 Hank There is no dealer here for mine so I direct imported mine from the manufacturer it was about 6k by the time I had it in my door. 2.5K for the freight and customs crap etc almost as much as the chute cost. The biggest issue is the dangerous goods bit. You have higher cost to get it here then the handling here was very expensive as you cant do it yourself you have o use the "special" carriers...even to your door at home...you cant go pick it up from somewhere. Its all pretty over the top OH&S garbage which is crazy town in this country. The way the rocket it packed when you get it there is no way it can get loose even if it is set off which is pretty difficult seeing you have to take the pin out of the release handle and they say around 45lb of pull is required on that handle and about 70mm of travel to ignite it I have finished my blast box and am now finishing off the mounting of it all and the top skin cover plate. Take it all back out then just alodine a few bits and I can get ready to continue on with the build I have asked them about if they make one for the S21 size and they do it weighs 20kg and is for 750kg aircraft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted April 10, 2019 Author Share Posted April 10, 2019 oh and yes mine for the Sav is 13kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted April 13, 2019 Author Share Posted April 13, 2019 Been a busy few days here. Was out most of the day today at the RAA meeting at Ycab and the Ozrunways guys came after the Redcliffe session so didnt get back until late this arvo. Got most of the enclosure done and fitted. Just have to make a small rail at the bottom at the back sheet then make the hole neat and to size on the top skin then make the cover that gets pushed out by the rocket. Hope to go for a fly in the morning then try to finish this off so I can then get back onto the assembly. Everything has been made so I can get the chute and rocket out it all bolts together. The lot weighs around 400 grams so pretty happy with that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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