Kyle Communications Posted August 12, 2019 Author Share Posted August 12, 2019 Just be careful when fitting the plates. The rudder pedals are not parallel so when in level rudder the right side pedals will be leaning forward and the left side lean back so the brake covers need to be fitted at the correct angle so they are then equally flat when in level position. I didnt think about that and had to do some panel beating on mine to make them the same angle. Because I made the covers in a U and with the holes in them I could reshape them to make them level. Once set then I pulled the pedals out as I was going to paint inside but I think not now. I will just carpet it instead with the lightweight stuff I used before. So I will mount them back in before I put the boot cowl on the top. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted August 12, 2019 Author Share Posted August 12, 2019 I did my first one a different way. It was a lot more involved than this way. Just be mindfull of the angles of the covers and the angles of the brake foot levers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Hi Mark, I like the rudder pedal extensions. I'm installing mine at the moment - just ran the rods between pedals and noseleg - and I was sitting in it yesterday testing the pedals. Trouble is you can't help but move the brake pedals when operating the rudder, which is not ideal. (My rudder pedals are from a Sav so same setup as yours). Think I'll get my local TIG welding bloke to add a plate to mine too, similar to what you have there. Marty, FWIW: A while ago, and when this came up previously, I asked Mark to measure the pedals on his XL, before and after his mod. I compared those measures to the pedals in my (late 2014) kit, and the size of mine fell between Mark's 2 measurements. In other words, ICP had extended the pedals (thoUgh not by a great amount, as I recall). My build is yet to leave the ground, but sitting in it, with heels on the floor, I have no trouble keeping clear of the brakes. To some degree, this must (also) be down to the adjustment of the steering rods, which will cause the pedals and brakes to tilt more or less towards the pilot... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 Got the front covers made for my new seating arrangement tonight. Pretty happy with the way they have come out. They are 0.016 so nice and light just have to fit some nutserts in so they can be removed if needed also alodined . Firewall is pretty much complete at the moment just waiting for the rudder pedals and engine mount to come back from the powder coaters then I can get both of these mounted and continue on to getting the nosewheel steering and all the bottom stuff in then the UC can go on and I can get it on its wheels with the engine on the front to keep the nose on the ground. Then it will go out into the carport for a bit while I pull the other wing apart. Still working on the new fuel tank. Got the 3D modeling done to get the pattern to cut the tubes to be a nice fit for tig welding 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 Being doing prep work during the week getting things made and drawings done. The noseleg on the Sav is really weak and so is the firewall attachments at the bottom. My XL has a similar mod done but this takes it a little further. The new flat cross section that butts up against the firewall is anchored by rivets away from the main noseleg support bracket. The bracket is shaped at the front with 2 folds to make it super strong and its made from 1mm 6061 T6 it also has a fold at the rear this makes the braket super strong. The bottom noseleg bracket is all bolted through to this plate and the plate also takes up the bolt for the bottom of the engine mount. The pictures should show it all. The fuel tank is coming along. Used Fusion 360 to draw it up in 3D modelling and then turned it to sheet metal so I could print this on some paper and attach it to the tube to get the correct cut angles. Cut the 100mm tube with a jigsaw then used a carbide burr to clean it up. Pretty happy with the fit to the large tube now just have to use that 100mm tube to make and cut the main large tube. Pedals and engine mount are back from powder coaters and looks pretty goo. Just have to mount it and drill the firewall then it comes off and I can paint the firewall then put the mount back on and think about getting the noseleg and wheel ready and also the main undercarriage then she can go onto the wheels. I think I will install the motor on as well so I dont have to have any weight on the nose. Next will be painting some of the runners at the inside at the front then think about doing the carpet now as its a lot easier. I will just put plastic over it to stop it getting too much crap on it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 On another matter. My Rans S21 Outbound kit is being loaded today on the ship in Longbeach USA. I comes to Brisbane via Taiwan would you believe. Due here around the 30th of September so exciting times :). Its in a 40ft container with another S21 and a S20 and other bits for another guy. Hopefully there wont be any dramas but its all insured for the trip just in case..there is a lot of money in that container. Mabel will have to be pretty close to finished before I can start on the S21 and hopefully "The Girlfriend" gets sold soon as I will need the hangar to assemble Mabel in and that leaves this workshop here clear to start on the Rans 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted September 13, 2019 Author Share Posted September 13, 2019 Been working on Mabel when I have had a chance this past week or so. Been doing other stuff farm related. Got the rear wing spar plate fitted so I can start finishing the skins on the right wing. I have used a few stainless 4mm bolts and nylocks here plus the rivets. Its a very major attachment point so I think a few bolts are a good idea. Again no wings have fallen off savannahs but this adds pretty much no weight but makes the joint so much stronger Started to prepare the ribs for the Dskins. I put tape under the rib flanges to block the rivet holes then when the skin gets pulled over I squeeze some hysol epoxy into the skin holes this then goes down and hits the ribs and spreads over the rib. This fills the gaps that are left between the ribs and the skin. Once the epoxy has gone off I redrill all the holes and then rivet the skin to the rib. I then remove the tape off the ribs through the holes in the spar but from the rear. This stops all the indents that you cant stop that you see in all the savannah wings...except mine on the girlfriend of course as I did this to her and its been perfect. I really dont think it improves the performance but it certainly looks a lot better. The row of rivets behind the spar are also another bad area for this. I have seen a couple of people that cut a 1.6 mm thick by around 15mm wide strip of alu made the full length of the top of the spar and fill that area to stop the large pull in that occurs here as well. You dont need to do anything with the underside of the front Dskin as the rivets always pull the skin nicely here and its the underside of the wing so you dont really see it anyway Another thing I have to do you is cut a 3mm thick by 10mm wide and tap a heap of holes in it that will be sikaflexed to the spar where thetank skins go over the spar. These are riveted usually but I do a 4mm thread for each hole in the spar and use bolts to clamp the tank skin to the wing skin and spar. This way if you ever get a tank leak you can get to the tanks easily but totally removing the tank covers. Again 4mm stainless dome head bolts are used here. The rest of the holes for the tank covers will have 3mm nutserts fitted...its a bugger of a job though but if you ever have to remove these covers and you have riveted them its a right royal pain. You need to be doing this anyway every 5 years to replace your fuel hoses and to inspect the tanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted September 14, 2019 Author Share Posted September 14, 2019 I wasnt happy with my build table being level and flat enough to make sure the wing is true. Even though its clecoed together mostly it wasnt true it had a slight twist in it although the front Dskin wasnt on but I needed to come up with something more reliable and static. I beetled on down to my local steel supplier this morning and bough some 1.2 and 1.4mtr offcuts of 65mm sq by 1.6mm wall gal steel tube and got them to cut a full 8 mtr length the same size in half to give me 2 of 4mtr lengths. I placed the long lengths over the supports on my table and could see it wasnt level by a few mm in the middle so I jacked up the large supports for the table and fitted a couple of extra legs but this was done first by using a laser level. This is only a cheapish one about 100 bucks its a digital and analogue level but it has a laser in the end of it. I place the level at one end of the long tube and measures the height of the laser above the tube then marked this onto a small piece of alu. I then sighted this height all the way along and yes it was out so I jacked the middle support up until the laser dot was on the middle of the mark so the table via the steel tube is perfectly flat. The 4 smaller lengths of tube go across the large tubes and I measuered the angle of them across each and they were the same so this means using the steel as a base the wing support will be perfectly flat and no twist. You can see how I did it in the pictures. To keep the wing perfectly flat the underside of the ribs on the sav wing are rounded so you need to pick a point along the trailing edge spar to make flat then also the spar. I used a some 19mm square alu tube to sit up against the trailing edge as a packer and this keep the ribs from telling lies about how level the wing is again you should see these in the pictures. I put the D skin on the bottom clecoded to the spar and the bottom of the ribs and started with 2 straps to wrap the skin around the ribs. My skins I had prebent a bit to make it easier as these are 0.020 skins not the 0.016 as std. I used wood rail slippers both were 75x35 to help pull the skin around and also had a length up against the trailing edge of the wing so it didnt crush or deform the trailing edge and this wood was higher than the rear edge so provided clearance for the straps. Been looking at the skin gap to the ribs and with the 0.020 skins I dont think they will deform when riveted so will see how that goes as feeding in the epoxy is a bit of a job. The rear just behind the spar though I will pack to stop it pulling in as that gap is pretty big as most would know. I will turn the wing over tomorrow and see how the underside skin is and add more clecos then I will flip it back over and begin to rivet the front top and top rear skin as ones done this will make the wing hold its shape and truness then flip it back and do the bottom skin and get all those rivnuts in around the tank and make the spar clamp for the fuel tank skins Mark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 A few more things done this week. The firewall is now painted and the engine mount and nose leg are on. Spent most of the day with Danny today making the cabin frames. Danny built a jig from a new one we borrowed from George and also mine as it wasnt damaged like Danny's was. They are not that accurate in angles and measurements either so he has sorted that to make sure the top rungs are symetrical now. The frames were just tig tacked and tomorrow will go off to the tig guru to get done. We are both putting grab handles onto the frames but we dont agree where they should go so this week will sort that out and when they come back he will tig the handles on and then they will get sent to be powder coated. I have been working on the wing as well and did do the filling with glue as the gaps in this wing between the skin and the ribs was the same as on my XL when I built it. I am very happy with the way its come out. I used Hysol epoxy on my first wing but it is quite expensive so did some research and JB Weld now do their "cold" epoxy in syringes with nozzel mixers and the main thing is it is quite thixotropic so it doesnt run when mixed. I tried it on this wing and it looks like the go and is far cheaper and easier to get as I ran out of epoxy so you might see the cream colour in the rivet holes that is the Hysol. Will finish that off drilling and riveting tomorrow night so I can then turn the wing over to do the underside and tanks 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 At the very top of the engine mount, where the 2 tubes come together, is a raised plate with a hole in it. What is attached there, Mark??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 Hi Bob yes there is a 3mm chrome moly plate that the 2 forward bars are welded to there is also a steel triangle shape that is welded to the bars and the main mount plate. You cant see it in the picture as it is held under the small wood block on the arm where they go to at the correct angle. But the bars are welded to that 3mm plate for the front attachment at the firewall you just cant see it in these pictures I have zoomed in on one to show you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Hi again, Mark. Yes, I get the plate that is welded to the angled ends of the frame tubes, and will be bolted flush to the firewall. I was referring to the first 2 pics in your series at #359 above, which show the mount bolted to the firewall. These show an additional trapezoid formed plate welded to the upper side of the tubes, with a hole in it. I don't have that on my engine mount. I was wondering if it is principally a strengthening gusset, or does something bolt to it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 Oh yes the top of the engine mount. That is just a strengthening plate. My XL has a similar one but no where near as large. I havent taken any notice of Danny's one but assumed they would all have had it just to make sure as it takes all the weight. We have made similar smaller versions to be welded onto the top corners of the cabin frame as well. This just adds so much extra strength for little weight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 Been busy this week with work and trying to get some jobs around the workshop out of here but picked up the cabin frame late last week. The tig guy did a awesome job on it. We have fitted a few small triangle brackets to give it some extra strength and also the tube we used is slightly thicker wall in both the main cross tube at the top and the smaller round tubes. Really not much weight but quite a lot stronger. I have got the cabin frame aligned and drilled mostly now so it can come off again and Danny an I will weld some grab handles on the frame on the inside at the top main side strut of the frame then send them both off for powder coating. Made all the ribs for the rudder a long time ago also the skins so I started to get it assembled this week but dont want to go any further with it until the fin is paint stripped and cleaned. I will open one side of the fin up to check for corrosion inside and then I can set the bushes into the hinge plates and attach the rudder before I fit it. The fin wasnt damaged so just need to check it all. I will fit the rudder this time as I vividly remember when I made the girlfiriend's one and installed it when it was already on was a major pain the backside. Also got the outer ailerons completely built with a new spar and new skins. Had to make new hinge mounts and clean and fit the original ribs. They came out ok but the ribs are not the right height as on all of the sav's so have small dimples in the top skin but the bottom is fine as normal as well. tried to get them not to dimple down but unless I made all new ribs it would be impossible. I am working as much as I can at the moment on Mabel as the S21 has arrived and currently the 2 large boxes are out under the large carport until I can make a new stand to store the skins on so I can do the inventory on the rest of the kit. I need to get the fuselage on its wheels so I can get it then out in the carport and I still have another wing to dismantle yet and rebuild also need to paint strip the stab and elevator and check it as well for worked rivets and corrosion 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share Posted November 5, 2019 I have been putting the rudder together which I rebuilt totally. Even made the rib formers. First time I have done it and made them...was reasonably easy..I was surprised. So time to pull the fin apart to make sure it was all ok inside. Really I just needed a reminder of how poorly this was put together. No black stuff in sight anywhere and corrosion between the skins and the frames and ribs. So its now all pulled apart. Have deburred all the sharp edges on the fin post and ribs that wasnt done in the first place. I am paint striping the skin now. I will clean and alodine these parts now then reassemble the fin ready for the rudder. You can see in the pics the corrosion on the fin post between the skin and the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 You can see in the pics the corrosion on the fin post between the skin and the post. What material is the fin post made of, and how old is the plane please Mark? Just memory bank info, materials/time = corrosion .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share Posted November 5, 2019 The aircraft is 2011 build and its all 6061-T6 The corrosion is on the ribs too around the rivets where they went through the skin into all the internal supports. This is why alodining everything helps against it. If you deburr everything then alodine it coats the inside of the holes as well so helps to protect the alu. The black stuff ICP supply also stops the corrosion. Its messy stuff and very difficult to remove. We havent been able to find a aussie supplier of it at all but maybe something similar. I have been buying the black stuff from the ICP agent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 I think you have to attend to at least the laps and rivet holes.. Not deburring the holes is a crook idea.. Weakens and more corrosion. Build all of it and KNOW what's gone on.( I'm not saying this for you , Kyle.) Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share Posted November 5, 2019 Yes Nev I know. ? I deburred all the rudder ribs and fin post last night seeing it wasnt done when built. The deburring is such a important part of the process. I dont think many grasp just how important it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 IF the holes could be burnished a bit that would reduce cracks originating there also. Bonding and riveting would be a big strength increase. I hate thin skins when just riveted. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 11, 2019 Author Share Posted November 11, 2019 Had to make a bottom skin for the rudder as it had been damaged. That was terrible to get to roll and make it fit. Not my best job on Mabel I have to admit but I was over working on the rudder, it has taken so much time. Lining up the bearing mounts too was a issue the pivots were not centred correctly for the bushes. Got the fin all pulled apart and alodined and it is now back together. Just have some final riveting to do on the rudder and I will fit the rudder to the fin as trying to get the bearing sleeves and washers in while the fin is installed on the fuselage is a nightmare. i remember this vividly from when building the girlfriend so that way I only have to connect the very bottom hinge. The cabin frames we got back from the welders and Danny made the grab handles and we welded them on. Did some slight resetting of the angles for the top alu support bars and now its out the plane and off to the poweder coaters now. When it comes back it will be fixed in place for good. Paint stripped the stab and elevator..its a crap job and they had such thick coats on paint on it wasnt funny. Have to do the stripper about 3 times to get all the paint off. Then I will de-skin them as there seems to be some issue in them as the skins are just not right. ....maybe a clue is the centre hinge point of the elevator. I know most have had trouble lining this centre hinge point up but good old boys at least are consistant about being rough as guts. Have a look at the main support for the bearing bush. I have new alu angle so will make a new one and refit the bush correctly. Also will put a couple of 4mm stainless bolts through the rear hing bracket support instead of just all rivets as they have been know to work badly there and become loose I will see if I can straighten the skins out when I get them off to inspect inside but if not I have plenty of 0.016 sheet so will just make some new skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Hi Mark, the first time I clekoed up my elevator, the skins didn't go on cleanly. The problem was the following: Page 3/10 of the instructions says "Rivet the angulars SE023 on the rear longeron SD011-2 (pictures no 2 & 3): NOTE the angulars must be riveted in such a way that the long side of the angular is riveted on the longeron and the short side is free." That NOTE is correct. However, when you go to Page 4/10, the assembly sketch there shows those angulars, the other way round, with the long side free, and that is what I had done. Evidently this is incorrect: I turned them round to match the Page 3/10 description, the skins went on easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 11, 2019 Author Share Posted November 11, 2019 Hi Bob I reckon you have hit the nail on the head.... something looks very funky around the centre of the stab. I asked Danny and his is the same apparently. I have to finish paint stripping it all first before I de-skin them. I will bet dollars to donuts there will be no black goo inside either. The old rudder and fin didnt have any so at least they were consistant....:( We are both really happy with the grab handles we have put in the cabin frames...tried it out and it makes a huge difference. Especially for me as I swing my leg over a stick with the twin sticks fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 11, 2019 Author Share Posted November 11, 2019 Actually thats the elevator...mine and dannys has something wrong at the centre of the stab. My elevator actually looks ok. I will take some pics before I de-skin them and see if I can show it but it does not look right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 11, 2019 Author Share Posted November 11, 2019 Now this is why when you are repairing something you really need to take a peek inside before you decide to reuse it Note the nose skin support round spacers they put in on the front ribs...I dont know why as it is the same height as the main spar its not lower at all. I will reuse the nose skin..just need to fix a couple of small dents but I will make new top and bottom skins. I will pull it further apart. The main spar is a little dodgy. It has top and bottom strengtheners at the top and bottom. There is a small bend in the top section. I can fix that but will make and replace the strengthers maybe with 25thou and not the 20 thou that is there just to be sure I think the elevators should be ok but will lift the main skin on the underside and inspect it as well. I will check what Bob has said about the orientation of the angle ribs and I have to fit a new angle piece for the centre bushing and will put some bolts through that bracket to make sure nothing moves like others have reported working rivets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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