blueshed Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Hi Planning is the go! if for some reason if it does close in, in a big hurry, then the closest farm house and a cup of tea. Or the nearest pub and a cool drink! How current is everybody at out landing. How do we accomadate this in training, it is all very different having to land some where you have never landed before, and no doubt it will have to be in a hell of a hurry. Meaning you need to select a landing spot, manage some sort of a circuit then be on he ground within a very short space of time. Before it turns IMC. Planning, Planning, Planning! And when it hit's the fan! you need a plan for this as well! Safe Skies for All Cheers Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I know a few pilots who think they can fly in cloud using a whisky compass and nothing else in the line of nav instruments. I didn't have to do IFR in any form to get my PPL but did some IFR training later. I know I cannot fly in cloud with limited instruments , even a GPS wouldn't suffice and I cannot survive on a full panel for more than a few minutes. Been there and done that. Don't even think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Sound advice. Spot-on Yenn. Mike, there is no such thing as inadvertant IMC, so you are not sticking your neck out. To be safe, always have an escape route, and have enough room to turn. If you get sucked into cloud from below, pole forward, reduce power and get out of it straight away,while you still know where you are, and which way is up. In coastal areas in late afternoon, advection fog, or low stratus can form very quickly, Learn as much as you can about weather. You are an AIRMAN.. The air is your element. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deskpilot Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I've never been in the situation but a simple solution, I think, would be a lightly weighted ball hanging in front of you. Keep it vertical and watch your altimeter as well. Got to be better than nothing. Any one prepared to give it a go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Deskpilot. Think about it. Your lightly weighted ball won't tell you much. You could complete a loop or a steep turn with it hanging straight towards the floor. It is no different from the balance ball in an instrument. Without gyro instruments you would only survive with luck. Even with them you have to be a good instrument flyer if you get in cloud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest browng Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I've never been in the situation but a simple solution, I think, would be a lightly weighted ball hanging in front of you. Keep it vertical and watch your altimeter as well. Got to be better than nothing. Any one prepared to give it a go? No....no chance. An interesting variation on not dying when caught in cloud comes from the 1941 operating manual for the Piper NE-1, (the US navy name for the J3 Cub). "reduce power to 1,000rpm, apply full carburettor heat, and enter a spin to the left ensuring that the stick is held fully back and the airspeed shows no increase. On breaking cloud perform a recovery as specified in this manual." Yeah right.......:;)2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deskpilot Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I know where you're coming from, Ian, but to keep to keep the ball hanging straight down in a loop, surely you've got to be pulling a pretty tight loop and other senses would start reacting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest browng Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I know where you're coming from, Ian, but to keep to keep the ball hanging straight down in a loop, surely you've got to be pulling a pretty tight loop and other senses would start reacting? But it's precisely when "other senses would start reacting" that you have just booked your hole in Australia. A VFR pilot in cloud is playing Russian Roulette with six loaded chambers, a non-current IFR pilot about four loaded chambers if he's lucky. Yes, as I said earlier, long ago pilots were trained to fly in cloud on basic instruments, but I strongly suspect that a lot of them didn't survive too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Bob Hoover did a demonstration once where he had a group of people in his Aero Commander, commenced a barrel roll (1G) and proceeded to poor a glass of water from a jug - the water never wavered. Exactly what the string and ball would do as well. When we were first learning IFR I remember the instructor getting me to close my eyes, wait a few minutes, then tell him what the aircraft was doing - trust me your senses can't keep track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deskpilot Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 OK, I bow to superior knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Relevant. Spot on agenn Yenn! Its only a skid indication /accelerometer. You could do a loop or an 80 degree banked turn, or a spiral and it would still point to the floor. Useless. As you say, you need a gyro for turn rate or an artificial horizon, preferably. Nev.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick-p Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 How does the VFR pilot go when he has only basic instruments, ASI. Altimeter. Balance ball. Ive never been there and with luck will keep visual. I have known the canopy to mist over on take off which can be frightening. Ian your choice of words of that situation you described is very sedate I have experienced it and sheer terror would be more like it particularily when you know that there is a tree line somewhere ahead of you and you can't see a thing. Rick-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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